Your Core Belief(s)!
- Thread starter cvanwey
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How is it plain to see for me?
Because of everything I've been through and have learned, and believe.
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disciple Clint
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based on your questions you do not understand the meaning of the scriptures that form the basis for your questions. It appears that you are more interested in debating than learning.Have you tried living by ALL the assertions of Jesus, or just some of them, which are more rational or convenient for you? (i.e.)
Have you given away all your possessions, or as much as humanly possible? If so, how were you able to respond to this thread?
Do you never seek 'justice/retribution' of the individuals whom decide to take from you? I doubt it.
If someone was ever to strike you, do you happily allow them to strike you again? I doubt it.
Furthermore....
Have you tried living by the assertions of all others as well, whom do not pronounce Jesus as their gateway; such as Gandhi or Confucius for a couple of quick examples? No? Why not?
I have no belief, where Jesus is concerned. I have a lack in belief, that He rose from the dead to save me. But nice try in trying to shift the burden
And no, I do not feel I ever received God's revelation, which is what this topic is after....
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- May 10, 2018
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How so? Please demonstrate; rather than to only offer a blank assertion.
I'm into learning, as much as the next. Please teach me.
However, I trust you are also aware of the purpose for this forum?
---> Christian Apologetics
---> A forum for non-Christians to challenge the Christian faith, and for Christians to defend their faith.
In light of the intended purpose of this topic, do you actually care to engage in the OP? Because I'm willing to bet that even if I was to persuade you that I do indeed 'understand', and was also to demonstrate your then presented moral conflict, for instance, I sincerely doubt ANY of this has bearing upon why you believe what you actually believe.
I'm more than willing to stake a wager that your core belief stems from 'revelation.'
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- May 10, 2018
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Your response here is quite vague, and open to much interpretation. I'd rather not speculate, and instead ask you to elaborate.
How exactly is it evident to you that Jesus was born of a virgin? What details specifically compels you that this claim must be true?
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I will again reiterate then... Scripture also speaks about a literal Adam and Eve, a flood, a Tower of Babel, and an Exodus - just for starters. Such claims look unlikely to have happened. If the confidence in these claims are low, why still polarize the claims of a 'virgin birth'?
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- Dec 24, 2018
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Why would these things seem unnatural (unlikely)...they are organic, are they not? We see people, floods, and towers out our windows.
*I don't get what you are saying about "polarize".
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Par5
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You came to Jesus by reading his words. I can see the attraction. He seems like a pretty good guy, who cares about people, someone who wants to help the poor, the sick, and the needy.
I often think that Christians who say they have accepted Christ by reading the gospels seem to overlook another important figure in this relationship, his father.
Did they not also read in that same book what fate his father had in store for him? Torture and murder by crucifixion. I would be asking what kind of father would allow such a thing to happen to his son, and on reading, it was to take the punishment for the wickedness of others, alarm bell would be ringing even louder.
How on earth could anyone imagine a human sacrifice would achieve anything? That was the sort of barbarism that primitive cultures practiced in order to appease their gods.
His father's track record can also be found in the same book and it tells of a being that seems to be in an almost perpetual state of anger killing all and sundry who somehow displease him. No one can escape his killing sprees, not even children and infants, and it is a very sad state of affairs that Christians who say they have found god will also say that killing children and infants is not wrong when it is done by or at the behest of their god. The god they believe is an all-loving god.
So for me, it's not so much a question of how people come to god, it's more a question of why!
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A couple of additional methodologies:
7) You want to marry a Christian and gradually your doubts and concerns about Christianity are forgotten.
8) You face the death of yourself or a loved one and find comfort in Christian afterlife possibilities.
That may sound cynical, but a reasonable person can find himself/herself either believing or disbelieving in Christianity. A factor in a person's belief or disbelief is the desirability. Some say atheists want to sin, and in some cases that is a subconscious factor shaping an atheist's disbelief. On the other hand, there are subconscious factors shaping a Christian's belief. Are the people at church nice or nasty? Is your significant other a devout believer or a skeptical atheist? Ideally those things shouldn't matter, but in the real world they make a difference.
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I think now we are getting more towards the reason as to why you believe. It all boils down to the topic of 'revelation.' In an early response, you stated you have experienced all except #4 (i.e.):
1) A felt thought, or intrusion, that seems not to have been your own; but from an 'external force'
2) Having an innate awareness, or a seemingly 'sixth sense'
3) Feeling(s) of intense euphoria, feeling overcome by an 'external force'
4) Actually hearing audible voices 'from God'
5) A burning in the bosom
6) Ability to all of a sudden speak in tongues, the angel's language, as the spirit takes you over
It appears we have come around full circle. We again look to be at THE reason you believe. All other topics of discussion are likely nothing much more than interesting 'talking-points' for you...
It looks to be summed as follows...
I asked how you concluded contact from God, verses being mistaken for an infinite number of other plausible possibilities. Ultimately, you stated it was because you read the Bible, mixed with your "being, intellect, will, emotions, imagination"...
In a rather large nutshell, reading the Bible 'just feels right' to you. When you read the Bible, you experience feelings 1-6, except 4.
I again ask you...
1. What is the likelihood or probability your experiences, (1- 6, except 4), are actually from God; verses a plethora of alternative sources? 25%, 50%, 99%, other?
2. Once you provide this number value above, what methodologies were used to discern this number value; by way of ruling out all other infinite number of possibilities?
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I'm honestly more concerned with your response in post #112 at this point... But I will answer anyways
Why lend heightened credence or higher credibility to a very unprovable claim - (a virgin birth claim), especially when other claims, for which we can actually investigate, look to be suspect as factual?
Sure, floods exist, and people migrate to other areas. But then these physical claims also leave behind evidence, don't they? Not to mention the entire topic of macroevolution, which looks to raise major question to the claims of a literal 'Adam and Eve'.
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Though these two points don't involve the topic of revelation per se, they definitely are major contributing factors.
According to a publication from Psychology Today, 'psychology of belief in god' is directly associated with five causes.
1) The believer possesses a need for control. The uncertainty or presented possible finality for the concept of death demonstrates lack in control. Since the government, police, or any other associated authority, has no control in preventing death, the believer feels a need for control and applies faith to their chosen god.
2) The person feels a need to cope with death. Repeated reminders of one's mortality increase people's belief in the supernatural and also prayer. Continued and repeated readings from the Bible or community gatherings in churches both assert the possibility to life after death, which appears to reduce psychological distress for many. Repetition is key. Re-reading the Bible, while also receiving affirmation from selected authority, via church leaders, offer added comfort and assurance, especially when in doubt or during trying times.
3) Unexplained suffering increases the belief in their proposed god. Ironically enough, suffering often actually increases the tendency for belief in god. The more unexplained the tragedy, the higher the probability the believer will associate the act as god's will. Meaning, a tornado killing an innocent child may be viewed as god's will. Alternatively, someone loosing their job may be from their own accord and is fully explainable; not being necessarily linked to a divine plan.
4) The believer feels the need for justice. Many feel a higher sense for morality if they believe a cosmic deity is watching over all. They also have less tendencies or less of a need to require earthly punishment. Believers feel a higher authority will settle the score in god's chosen time.
5) The battle between experimental thinking versus logical thinking drives many to belief in god. Experimental thinking is associated with the individual in which relies upon their 'gut' feeling in rendering decisions, and is classified as a more emotional decision. The logical thinker more-so makes decisions in a 'matter of fact' manor, void of any personal bias or emotional feelings of any kind. The logical thinker assesses the evidence presented, to determine if the evidence leads to a demonstrated and directly fitting conclusion. As a result, predominant experimental styles in thinking lend higher tendencies for belief in a higher power, verses majoritively logical thinkers.
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- Dec 24, 2018
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Ha ha, this is kinda funny, because I recently gave this ole stats. quote in another thread:
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
What are some of the "alternative sources" you have in mind...out of curiosity?
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Awww, that's sweet, please don't be concerned for me...I'll be alright...
*I'm isolating from such things...
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Are you going to give me a number value, or not? Are you then going to disclose your methodology as to how you came up with this number value, or not?
And to answer your later question...
It would be the same number of alternative sources available, verses the 'fact' that you and I exist and share in this reality. -- For which I would hasten to state you and I actually exist, and are speaking to one another via technology, which I place at 90-something percent. And yes, the alternatives against this 'reality' existing, are all-the-same, but are likely very low
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You are taking random singular words, and responding out of context. My concern is more-so to focus on post #112. If you care to avoid this follow-up, then all I can say is you have that right. I will then likely conclude that the lack in comfort of such line in questioning is what tells the tale.
*I'm isolating from such things...
I don't blame you
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@cvanwey,
I'm mostly being silly, of course, but I really just don't see any reason to approach such a holistic topic using percentages.
It was really pretty simple actually, the Bible explains what I encounter (objectively and subjectively) on this little ole planet we call earth.
I'm mostly being silly, of course, but I really just don't see any reason to approach such a holistic topic using percentages.
It was really pretty simple actually, the Bible explains what I encounter (objectively and subjectively) on this little ole planet we call earth.
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