Must-reads to learn the basics of Catholicism?

Jun 26, 2003
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A thought just occurred to me, and I mean no disrespect. I do not elevate Michael Voris to the level of Jesus Christ; Mr Voris is a man and deserves criticism just as any other human being. I have seen him go after the teachings and words of some of the hierarchy, but he has never disputed the validity of the hierarchy itself. He goes against the schismatic sects just as harsh; these would include the SSPX and sedavacantists. When someone speaks down to me, or challenges me harshly, I do not shut down; I enter increased study and self examination. If I am wrong, I repent, If I am criticized unjustly, then I rejoice as Christ taught us. I judge myself based on the catechism of the catholic church, and do not let my emotions rule my faith. We are on a journey toward heaven, and our feelings here mean little. The Christian path is the way of suffering. St John of the Cross says


“ To reach satisfaction in all, desire satisfaction in nothing. To come to possess all, desire the possession of nothing. To arrive at being all, desire to be nothing. To come to the knowledge of all, desire the knowledge of nothing. To come to enjoy what you have not, you must go by a way in which you enjoy not. To come to the possession you have not, you must go by a way in which you possess not. To come to what you are not, you must go by a way in which you are not.

John of the Cross”


Are there examples of being harsh with the hierarchy? We can read the words of Christ himself in Matthew 23

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.



I only want us to think and to press on toward the prize of heaven. I am a man most miserable for the things I have done against God, my brothers and the Church. It is only by the grace of God that I am alive today and not in outer darkness. As we say in the Salve Regina, pray for us oh holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ

God Bless you all
 
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Michie

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A thought just occurred to me, and I mean no disrespect. I do not elevate Michael Voris to the level of Jesus Christ; Mr Voris is a man and deserves criticism just as any other human being. I have seen him go after the teachings and words of some of the hierarchy, but he has never disputed the validity of the hierarchy itself. He goes against the schismatic sects just as harsh; these would include the SSPX and sedavacantists. When someone speaks down to me, or challenges me harshly, I do not shut down; I enter increased study and self examination. If I am wrong, I repent, If I am criticized unjustly, then I rejoice as Christ taught us. I judge myself based on the catechism of the catholic church, and do not let my emotions rule my faith. We are on a journey toward heaven, and our feelings here mean little. The Christian path is the way of suffering. St John of the Cross says


“ To reach satisfaction in all, desire satisfaction in nothing. To come to possess all, desire the possession of nothing. To arrive at being all, desire to be nothing. To come to the knowledge of all, desire the knowledge of nothing. To come to enjoy what you have not, you must go by a way in which you enjoy not. To come to the possession you have not, you must go by a way in which you possess not. To come to what you are not, you must go by a way in which you are not.

John of the Cross”


Are there examples of being harsh with the hierarchy? We can read the words of Christ himself in Matthew 23

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.



I only want us to think and to press on toward the prize of heaven. I am a man most miserable for the things I have done against God, my brothers and the Church. It is only by the grace of God that I am alive today and not in outer darkness. As we say in the Salve Regina, pray for us oh holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ

God Bless you all
Well while I like what you say, we all have different lives, backgrounds and experiences in our everyday lives. I do shut down. And it’s not if I’m the target but if anyone is the target. It just turns me off and is not in the least bit helpful imo. But we do not all have the same gifts. We are many parts of the same body and we do not all function the same. But if there is dissent from others that do not work for the common good of Christ’s Body... I just do not entertain that. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t. We should not have a war every time we communicate. Valid concerns are one thing but delivery matters amongst brethren.
 
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Jun 26, 2003
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Well while I like what you say, we all have different lives, backgrounds and experiences in our everyday lives. I do shut down. And it’s not if I’m the target but if anyone is the target. It just turns me off and is not in the least bit helpful imo. But we do not all have the same gifts. We are many parts of the same body and we do not all function the same. But if there is dissent from others that do not work for the common good of Christ’s Body... I just do not entertain that. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t. We should not have a war every time we communicate. Valid concerns are one thing but delivery matters amongst brethren.

It is good not to deliberately inflame, but we need to speak the Truth. Jesus tells us that the world hated Him, and it will hate us also. He also tells us to be as wise a serpents, but gentle as doves. I do get your point and I appreciate it

peace be with you
 
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narnia59

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A thought just occurred to me, and I mean no disrespect. I do not elevate Michael Voris to the level of Jesus Christ; Mr Voris is a man and deserves criticism just as any other human being. I have seen him go after the teachings and words of some of the hierarchy, but he has never disputed the validity of the hierarchy itself. He goes against the schismatic sects just as harsh; these would include the SSPX and sedavacantists. When someone speaks down to me, or challenges me harshly, I do not shut down; I enter increased study and self examination. If I am wrong, I repent, If I am criticized unjustly, then I rejoice as Christ taught us. I judge myself based on the catechism of the catholic church, and do not let my emotions rule my faith. We are on a journey toward heaven, and our feelings here mean little. The Christian path is the way of suffering. St John of the Cross says


“ To reach satisfaction in all, desire satisfaction in nothing. To come to possess all, desire the possession of nothing. To arrive at being all, desire to be nothing. To come to the knowledge of all, desire the knowledge of nothing. To come to enjoy what you have not, you must go by a way in which you enjoy not. To come to the possession you have not, you must go by a way in which you possess not. To come to what you are not, you must go by a way in which you are not.

John of the Cross”


Are there examples of being harsh with the hierarchy? We can read the words of Christ himself in Matthew 23

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.



I only want us to think and to press on toward the prize of heaven. I am a man most miserable for the things I have done against God, my brothers and the Church. It is only by the grace of God that I am alive today and not in outer darkness. As we say in the Salve Regina, pray for us oh holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ

God Bless you all
Actually the Scribes and the Pharisees were lay people, they were not ordained. Learned that listening to Fr. Mitch Pacwa one day; it was a surprise to me. The "hierarchy" was the Levitical priesthood.
 
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zippy2006

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Greetings from the Protestant camp!

I am a non-denominational Protestant who has recently begun to doubt some of the tenets of the faith I grew up with. I have become quite confused and despondent, as Protestant Christianity no longer seems to stand up to intense philosophical scrutiny, and I have felt adrift and not sure if the faith of my childhood holds up anymore. Concurrently with this mini dark night of the soul, I have recently begun listening to EWTN radio, and some of the things I have heard have restored my faith in Christianity. Based on what I have learned from the radio and what little I have read on the internet, it seems like Catholicism answers many of the doubts I had about Protestant Christianity.

Long story short, I want to learn more about Catholicism, but I don't really know where to start. There's just so much rich history, tradition, and doctrine that I feel kind of lost whenever I try to read around. What books or other works would you guys recommend for someone who is almost entirely ignorant of Catholicism but wants to know what the Catholic Church is all about? I would like to learn about Church history as well as dogma.

Thanks in advance!

What parts of your Protestant heritage trouble you and what about Catholicism attracts you?
 
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zippy2006

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Actually the Scribes and the Pharisees were lay people, they were not ordained. Learned that listening to Fr. Mitch Pacwa one day; it was a surprise to me. The "hierarchy" was the Levitical priesthood.

Well, official Judaism was concentrated around the Temple authorities, and it is true that the Scribes and Pharisees were not a part of that, but at that time even the Temple priests were not exclusively from the tribe of Levi (or the tribe of Aaron). This was a consequence of the Maccabean system and was a source of tension in Judaism. Because of this many saw the priesthood as illegitimate. For example, this is one of the main reasons why the Essenes went off on their own.
 
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