Do you believe in the “caught up together” event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

Spiritual Jew

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For me: The biggest arguments for the Pre-Trib Rapture is...

1. We do not know the day or the hour. But if am exclusively Mid Trib, or Post Trib, then I can know the day or the hour by all the signs happening around me in the Tribulation period.
This is only in the case when people believe in a tribulation period that lasts for a certain amount of time, such as 3.5 or 7 years. Post-trib Amils like myself don't believe in any 3.5 or 7 year period of tribulation before Christ returns, but we do believe He returns after a time of tribulation, which we see as Satan's little season (Rev 20:7-9). Some, including myself, would see the time of the mass falling away from the faith that Paul talks about in 2 Thess 2 as being that time of tribulation that precedes His second coming.

2. We can pray so as to escape the things in the Tribulation.
We can be protected by God from anything even while still on the earth. It's only when His final wrath comes down, as described in 2 Peter 3:10-12, that we would need to be taken off the earth to meet Him in the air when our bodies are changed at the last trumpet.

3. We are not appointed unto Wrath (Note: Granted this one is more against the Post Trib, then a Mid Trib).
Again, we don't need to be taken off the earth to avoid God's wrath until His final wrath of fire upon the earth comes down (2 Peter 3:10-12).
 
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Douggg

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This is only in the case when people believe in a tribulation period that lasts for a certain amount of time, such as 3.5 or 7 years.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth. Satan has great wrath knowing he has but a little time, a time/times/half times left. In Revelation 12. Forthcoming.
 
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Berean Tim

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However, the word rapture tends to cause division and confusion - thus God did not author the theologies.
The bodily resurrection caused division. People argue over baptism, Lords Supper and a lot of "theologies"
1 Corinthians 1117But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,e 19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

You can't dismissed something just because people disagree. Disagreements just make me study harder
 
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Blade

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I read here some asking for proof text or avoiding yet some are making statements without any word to back it up. I have never read where "Satan is a spirit". "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while."

Then it just keeps going with speculation. Speculation is fun but.. we never use it as fact. Its not truth. My point is how can one ask for proof text about Caught up when you can not back up what you said?

Facts... Jesus went to His Fathers house to make us a home. And He will come back get us/receive us unto Himself so where (heaven) He is we will be. Where He goes we know and how He goes we know. Fact.. that will happen what is not written is when.

Fact Christ will come in the air not written with tons of angels or saints at His side. It says with voice shout trumpet of God. Those 3 have to happen. Dead rise and as Paul said "we"which remain. He didn't say "those" he put himself in that. Then we have wrath and restrainer holding back the lawless one. Caught up has been talked about since Jesus left. Like or dislike Perry Stone is not what matters. Even he talked about the names of those that wrote in scrolls about caught up before and after 300ad. Which ONLY proves it was preached and talked about. Never gets talked about just lol 1830.. what ever.

So if we are really talking truth then there is no verse for PRE TRIB nor POST TRIB and no MID TRIB. Some bring in Matt which Christ was not talking to the Church or Christian. And then seems 3 things are missing when the Angels go gather.. anyway. I guess He forgot.

So if you as man are limited to this one moment where you have no clue if you live or die in the next second or min or day week month. Hmm why not live for Jesus Christ today? Why not live as if He is coming right now because a yeah it could be. To always be ready living for Him..watching how you live and to always be thinking about Him.. there is NOTHING BETTER! Be ready now
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I don't see how 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 event works right before the New Earth (i.e. after the Millennium).
Then why is it that Paul quotes Isaiah 25:8 in 1 Cor 15:54 to show the fulfillment of that prophecy and John also quotes Isaiah 25:8 in Revelation 21:4 to quote the fulfillment of that prophecy?

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump...54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away...4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Is it not clear that when the last trumpet sounds that is when Isaiah 25:8 will be fulfilled? Paul said so. And is it not also clear that when the new heaven and new earth will appear, that is also when Isaiah 25:8 will be fulfilled, which would mean that the new heaven and new earth will be ushered in at around the time of the last trumpet sounding?

It wouldn't make sense to try to claim that Isaiah 25:8 will be fulfilled at the last trumpet when Christ returns and will also be fulfilled 1000+ years after that.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Show us here one passage in the sacred text that teaches your theory. The first principle of evidence is: "he who alleges must prove."

Scripture shows that there is one future coming of Christ. The problem with Pretribbers is they list a pile of Scripture and fail to take them one at a time and let them speak for themselves. You quickly see they have zero corroboration in God's Book.

Let us start with 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9!

Let us look at 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9. The text declares: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain ‘shall be caught up’ [Gr. harpazō] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Pretrib

· Where is your seven-year tribulation in this passage?
· Where are your survivors?
· How can there even be a possibility of survivors in the light of the climactic and wholesale destruction here?

Posttrib
  • This is a picture of the one-and-only future second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • It’s shows the rescue, deliverance of God’s people.
  • It’s shows the total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!
  • This is the end!
The un-indoctrinated Bible scholar must surely admit that this text oozes definite climactic detail. It first of all shows our Lord coming unexpectedly; it also reveals the fate that befalls all those on earth – both saved and unsaved. Whilst this is shown to be a day anticipated by God’s people, it is one that catches the wicked unawares. After the removal of the righteous all that awaits those left behind is total “destruction” (1 Thessalonians 5:3).

The wrath of God that arrives on this climactic day is described as “sudden destruction.” This whole narrative is a record of Christ’s one and only future coming. Contrary to what Pretribs impute into this text (namely that that Christ is only coming “for” His saints), this reading describes how Christ comes both “with” and “for” His people the next time. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Those living will be “caught up” to meet Jesus when He appears. This is the ultimate uniting of the elect on earth (the live in Christ) and those in heaven (the dead in Christ).

It is accompanied by the great sound of the trump ushering in the end. The word rendered “remain” in our King James Version (which relates to those that are alive at Christ’s coming) is interestingly the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Thus, we can take from this reading that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving. These are tribulation saints.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant cry. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies.

Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful and thorough that none escape. This is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib packed with unsaved people.

The opposite to “wrath” here is shown to be “salvation.” Salvation involves a person taking a hold of eternal life. The antithesis is therefore a person experiencing eternal torment. The wrath of God will be poured out on the wicked at the end. They will then experience the second death.

To get around the climactic detail of this passage Pretribs try to separate the day of the Lord from the second coming of Christ. This totally distorts the wording, the harmony and the thrust of this passage and its detailed description of the fate of the saved and the lost. The day of the Lord is pushed 7 years ahead of the coming of Christ even though there is no mention of such in this text. Pretrib is therefore exposed by this text.

The writer actually warns the believer in the light of the awful unexpected destruction that overcomes the wicked at the coming of Christ for the believer to be watchful of that day so “that that day should overtake you as a thief.” We are told to “watch and be sober” of that day.

Let us try and sum up what this much-debated passage is telling us about Christ’s coming.

This is sudden, climactic and totally destructive. It sees God rescuing His elect and destroying the wicked.
Well said. How much more clear could it be? Paul clearly did not teach a pre-trib rapture. Not even close.

Oh, how I wish the person or people who decided that there should be a chapter break between 1 Thess 4 and 5 were still alive. I would love to have a little chat with them about their horrible mistake.

With that said, though, Paul taught the same thing he taught in 1 Thess 4:13-5:9 in 2 Thess 1:7-10 as well.

He again taught that on the day Christ returns, believers will be gathered to Him and His enemies will be destroyed.

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The same day that Jesus is revealed from heaven and takes vengeance on His enemies is the same day when "he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe". How could anyone think that verse 10 is not talking about the same thing as 1 Thess 4:14-17? It clearly is. And this passage shows that on that same day Christ will take vengeance on His enemies.

And, as Paul says in 1 Thess 5:3, "sudden destruction" will come upon Christ's enemies from which "they shall not escape". Why will they not escape? Because as Peter said about that same day "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (2 Peter 3:10).
 
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Yesha

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There are a lot of folks who deny the Rapture altogether. They say the word “Rapture” is not in the Bible and thus it means there is no Rapture. I am here to say that there is an event that sounds a lot like the Rapture, but I am going to call it by it's biblical name.

The “caught up together” event.
If you don't believe this event is biblical, it can be found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. The words “caught up together” is taken from the Bible.
The event is no doubt Biblical. An interpretation thereof may not be.

Do you deny this passage or portion of Scripture?
Most certainly not!

Does it not sound like a Rapture event?
Of course. So long as the concept of "rapture event" is interpreted consistently with the context of 1 Thess. 4:16-17 and the rest of Scripture.

Even if the name Rapture does not appear in the Bible, the event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 seems a lot like the Rapture.
As above, I don't think the issue is so much about the rapture as its interpretation. Hence some folks may be wary of the term because of its association with a particular eschatology and hermeneutic.
 
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fwGod

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There are a lot of folks who deny the Rapture altogether. They say the word “Rapture” is not in the Bible and thus it means there is no Rapture. I am here to say that there is an event that sounds a lot like the Rapture, but I am going to call it by it's biblical name.

The “caught up together” event.
If you don't believe this event is biblical, it can be found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. The words “caught up together” is taken from the Bible.
Do you deny this passage or portion of Scripture?
Does it not sound like a Rapture event?
Even if the name Rapture does not appear in the Bible, the event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 seems a lot like the Rapture.
The word 'trinity' is not in the Bible. But it's most likely that everyone who denies the rapture conversely believes in the trinity.

The word 'rapture' comes from the Vulgate Medieval Latin word 'rapturo' for 'caught up' from the verse in 1Thes.4:17.. The Greek word is 'harpazo'.
The action could be better described as seize or grab quickly. Like a hero would suddenly take hold of the damsel in distress and take her to safety.

Obviously the erroneous argument that there is no rapture because there is no such word in the Bible completely fails because it's not considering the linguistic history concerning a Bible truth.

But even if some people can't find where the Bible talks about the rapture, the search engine can. There are places that say there are 44, 23, 15, 6 verses (depending on how direct or indirect they are) that refer to the rapture.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The word 'trinity' is not in the Bible. But it's most likely that everyone who denies the rapture conversely believes in the trinity.

The word 'rapture' comes from the Vulgate Medieval Latin word 'rapturo' for 'caught up' from the verse in 1Thes.4:17.. The Greek word is 'harpazo'.
The action could be better described as seize or grab quickly. Like a hero would suddenly take hold of the damsel in distress and take her to safety.

Obviously the erroneous argument that there is no rapture because there is no such word in the Bible completely fails because it's not considering the linguistic history concerning a Bible truth.

But even if some people can't find where the Bible talks about the rapture, the search engine can. There are places that say there are 44, 23, 15, 6 verses (depending on how direct or indirect they are) that refer to the rapture.

The original is not Latin. Keep to the English or the Greek please. Pretrib carries no biblical support in any version. It is a Jesuit invention.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The bodily resurrection caused division. People argue over baptism, Lords Supper and a lot of "theologies"
1 Corinthians 1117But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,e 19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

You can't dismissed something just because people disagree. Disagreements just make me study harder
Rapture is a relatively new idea since it was coined from a latin word - so it doesn't fall under the same category as Baptism and Resurrection.
 
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You are ducking around this basic request. Pretribbers have to do this because they have nothing to support their man-made doctrine - nothing. You totally avoided the main Scripture you started with because it exposes Pretrib. You avoided my questions - you have to. This is Pretrib.

Where does Joel 2:31 and Revelation 6:12-13 teach a rapture of the church, followed by a 7 year tribulation, followed by 3rd coming? Nowhere.

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

Joel 2:1-3 says, “for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

This fiery day of complete destruction is an impending day (“it is nigh at hand”) that will evidently destroy this planet. The appearance of Christ will leaven nothing of corruption standing. Joel 2:4-5 continues, “The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble.”

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

His face manifests the shikinah of God. Whilst the Premillennialist accepts that the earth flees from His glory at the end of Satan’s little season it negates that reality at His second coming. Is His glory any different? Why didn't the heavens and the earth flee from His face then? After all, the brightness of His coming should hardly be diminished at any time. Scripture would see to locate the fulfilment of Revelation 20:11 at the second coming of the Lord Jesus.

The 6th seal is climactic. You have to ignore the detail described in order to force your meaning. This is the end. This correlates with multiple Scriptures that show a climactic return of Christ. This also demolishes the chronological approach and with it Premil. The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position.

The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

Creation

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed.
It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).
Excellent points that are impossible to refute, in my opinion. But, I know people will try, anyway.

I would like to add to what you said about the sixth seal. It clearly reveals the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. It figuratively shows people being so afraid of the wrath of the Lamb that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them! Being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals to them more than facing God's wrath! How can anyone not see Rev 6:12-17 as speaking of the final wrath of God?

That it's the final wrath of Christ explains the meaning of this verse:

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

This is all it says about what happens after the seventh seal is opened. Why is there silence in heaven at that time? Because Jesus and His angels will have left heaven at that point to deliver His final wrath upon the earth. Why else? The following is what will be happening while there is silence in heaven:

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
 
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fwGod

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The original is not Latin. Keep to the English or the Greek please.
Read my post again. I did not imply that the Latin is the original text, I gave the Greek 'harpazo' after I gave the Latin 'rapturo' to indicate where the word rapture comes from because it doesn't directly come from the Greek.
Pretrib carries no biblical support in any version. It is a Jesuit invention.
That argument is an invention that has been proven erroneous many times beyond counting.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Read my post again. I did not imply that the Latin is the original text, I gave the Greek 'harpazo' after I gave the Latin 'rapturo' to indicate where the word rapture comes from because it doesn't directly come from the Greek.
That argument is an invention that has been proven erroneous many times beyond counting.

Really? Many of us former Pretribbers have proved that to be wrong. It is easier trying to get blood out of a stone as trying to get Pretribbers to provide clear Scripture to support their teaching. I will try again:

Can you furnish us with one single proof-text anywhere that teaches a rapture of the church, followed by a 7 year tribulation, followed by 3rd coming?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I will stop you right there. I totally disagree. God can bind any being.

Jude 6


New International Version



6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.



Satan is an angelic being. Created and easily restrained by God.
Did the binding with everlasting chains of the fallen angels prevent them from doing anything at all? Clearly not! That verse actually supports what we Amils believe about the nature of Satan's binding. It has nothing to do with preventing him from doing anything at all.

And, by the way, Satan was one of those angels "who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling". That describes all fallen angels. All of them are bound with everlasting chains for judgment. That is figurative language to describe the fact that their fate is already sealed for judgment day.
 
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Really? Many of us former Pretribbers have proved that to be wrong. It is easier trying to get blood out of a stone as trying to get Pretribbers to provide clear Scripture to support their teaching. I will try again:

Can you furnish us with one single proof-text anywhere that teaches a rapture of the church, followed by a 7 year tribulation, followed by 3rd coming?
No one has answered this question in the many years you have been asking it, so I'm not expecting that anyone will now. No one even attempts to answer it, which says a lot.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Excellent points that are impossible to refute, in my opinion. But, I know people will try, anyway.

I would like to add to what you said about the sixth seal. It clearly reveals the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. It figuratively shows people being so afraid of the wrath of the Lamb that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them! Being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals to them more than facing God's wrath! How can anyone not see Rev 6:12-17 as speaking of the final wrath of God?

That it's the final wrath of Christ explains the meaning of this verse:

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

This is all it says about what happens after the seventh seal is opened. Why is there silence in heaven at that time? Because Jesus and His angels will have left heaven at that point to deliver His final wrath upon the earth. Why else? The following is what will be happening while there is silence in heaven:

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Excellents points!
 
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sovereigngrace

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No one has answered this question in the many years you have been asking it, so I'm not expecting that anyone will now. No one even attempts to answer it, which says a lot.

They cannot because it does not exist. It only exists in the Pretrib manuals.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Woe to the inhabiters of the earth. Satan has great wrath knowing he has but a little time, a time/times/half times left. In Revelation 12. Forthcoming.
If you understood that he was cast out of heaven when Christ ascended there then you would know that the "time, times and half a time" is a figurative term for the New Testament time period.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

The Greek word translated as "little" when it says Satan has but a "little" time is oligos. The same word is used here:

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few (Greek: oligos) are chosen.

The word is normally used to refer to a relatively small or limited number and not to a literal small number. In Matt 22:14 it's used to refer to a large number (a multitude, millions?) because it's referring to all of those who are chosen for salvation. It's relatively few in relation to the many, but still is not a literally small number.

Similarly, Satan's time that he is allowed to persecute the church is not literally short, but is limited. We know that in the end he will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10).
 
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Marilyn C

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Really? Many of us former Pretribbers have proved that to be wrong. It is easier trying to get blood out of a stone as trying to get Pretribbers to provide clear Scripture to support their teaching. I will try again:

Can you furnish us with one single proof-text anywhere that teaches a rapture of the church, followed by a 7 year tribulation, followed by 3rd coming?

Hi sg,

Scripture tells us that `no prophecy of scripture is of any private, (stand alone) interpretation.` (2 Peter 1: 20)

We are to look at all of God`s word upon the subject.

BTW the trib, is 6 yrs & 11 months. It is cut short if you remember. (Matt. 24: 22)

And the Lord only comes to the earth twice. The other coming at the `catching away,` of the mature Body of Christ, is in the air.
 
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More Reasons for a Pre-Trib Rapture:

These considerations all arise from the literal method of interpretation.

1) The relation of the Church to governments. This is a very good point. Think about it. In 1 Timothy 2: 1-4 we are instructed to pray for the government and those in authority, and in Romans 13:1, we are told to be in subjection to the governing authorities. Bu in Revelation 13:4 we are told that Satan, the dragon—will control the government during the Tribulation. How could the Church subject herself to a satanic government or pray for it, as we are instructed to now? It could not.

As Dr. Pentecost says, “Because of the relationship of the Church to governments in this age and because of the satanic control of government in the seventieth week, the Church must be delivered before this satanic government manifests itself.”

2) The silence concerning the Tribulation in the Epistles. This could be an interesting study of its own. We find many examples in the Epistles that were written to give help and assistance to the church in how to endure persecution in this age. There is no teaching to the Church for dealing with the most severe persecution men will have ever known—the Tribulation. Dr. Pentecost rightly states “The silence in the Epistles which would leave the church unprepared for the Tribulation argues for her being absent from that period all together.”

3) The waiting remnant at the Second Advent. I have read articles which say that all believers during the Tribulation will be martyred. That notion is false. Many passages like Malachi 3:16; Ezekiel 20:33-38; 37:11-28; Zachariah13:8-9; and Matthew 25:31-40 indicate that there will be a believing remnant in Israel awaiting His return. There will also be a remnant of believing Gentiles who survive the Tribulation. These groups of believers go into the Millennium in their natural bodies, but not having experienced death and resurrection. If the Church were on the earth at the time of the Second Advent (by the post-Trib theory) those people who get saved would be saved into the spiritual Body the Church and be raptured at that time. Consequently, there would not be any saved people left on earth.

Dr. Pentecost rightly states, “These considerations make necessary the Pre-Trib Rapture of the church, so that God may call out and preserve a remnant during the Tribulation in and through whom the promises may be fulfilled.” (The promises in the Abrahamic, Davidic, Palestinic, and new covenants.)

4) The sealed 144,000 from Israel. When a person is saved while the church is still here on earth, he is saved into the church, whether Jew or Gentile, as indicated in Colossians 1:26-29; 3:11; Ephesians 2:14-22; 3:1-7. But during the Tribulation, Revelation 7:14 indicates that 12,000 Jews are saved out of each tribe to a special group of Jews. They are sent as representatives to the nations as witnesses of Christ. The Church was given this instruction to take the gospel to the world, indicating the Church must be absent.

5) The apostasy of the period. It’s often mentioned that the Church is obviously absent from most of Revelation when all the Tribulation events are described taking place on earth. The only organized church mentioned is the Jezebel system, Revelation 2:22; Revelation 17 and 18. The believing witnesses, converted during the period, are said to have kept themselves from defilement by this apostate system, Revelation 14:4.

Dr. Pentecost states, “Since the Church is not mentioned as also having kept herself from this system it must be concluded that the Church is not there.” (The Church has been translated out before the Tribulation.)

These are just a few of the arguments listed in a chapter in Dr. Pentecost’s book.

Source:
Fascinating Arguments for the Pre-Trib Rapture - Rapture Ready
 
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