Ezekiel's prophecy (and the different perspectives)

nolidad

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Why are you so carnal and literal in your thinking? Do you even attempt to use any spiritual discernment when you interpret scripture? Do you understand what Paul was saying when he said that they are not all Israel which are of Israel and that the children of the promise are counted for the seed (Romans 9:6-8)? You always have your eyes focused on the wrong Israel. God's people are the Jew and Gentile believers together as one in the church now, man! Please join us in the new covenant era.

Your hyper-literal method of interpreting Old Testament prophecies just doesn't work. I suppose you are one of those who will not acknowledge that the prophecy about Elijah in Malachi 4 was not fulfilled by John the Baptist even though Jesus said it was?

Jesus said about John being Elijah:

Matthew 11:13-15
King James Version

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus put a big IF to John being Elijah. Israel did not recieve it so John did not fulfill teh role of Elijah. He is still to come!

Well if you believe Malachi 4 is fulfilled by John being Eliojah then show us all the events that are now history in the prophecy.

Malachi 4
King James Version

4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So now you add judging a believer to your sin of presumptiousness as well?

show me in the bible where my position is something Carnal!

I know full well what Paul was saying in those things you listed!

But let me ask you - you are allegorizing Scripture . when you get rid of all teh fancy theological terms for one allegorizing (like I amn exercising Spiritual discernment and you are not ), what you are in fact doing is saying this: "This is what God inspired the writer to write to become His Sacred Word, but I am telling you what it really means"

Let me ask you one simple question.

Why is your :spiritually discerning: the word on the page and coming up with something not written, aka allegorizing, any more correct or what god reaaly meant to say but didn't than the dozens of others who used "their spiritual discernment" to come up with positions different than yours? Why are you more right than them?

Let me ask another question to you. Should I take your words that you write here as literal and you mean what you say, or should I use "spiritual discsernment" to uncover what you are axctually trying to say???

Hey you do it to Gods Word- may be we should rethink the way we read yoiu rwords as well.
 
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nolidad

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Why are you so carnal and literal in your thinking? Do you even attempt to use any spiritual discernment when you interpret scripture? Do you understand what Paul was saying when he said that they are not all Israel which are of Israel and that the children of the promise are counted for the seed (Romans 9:6-8)? You always have your eyes focused on the wrong Israel. God's people are the Jew and Gentile believers together as one in the church now, man! Please join us in the new covenant era.

Your hyper-literal method of interpreting Old Testament prophecies just doesn't work. I suppose you are one of those who will not acknowledge that the prophecy about Elijah in Malachi 4 was not fulfilled by John the Baptist even though Jesus said it was?


Just so I don't misunderstand you:

Here is the entire New covenant God declared and replaced the Old Covenant with.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Based on what you have posted on this topic, I must conclude that you do not believe that what God wrote is NOT what He meant. That we must use "spiritual discernemnt" (aka read between teh lines) to really know what God was actually trying tro say. Am I wrong?
 
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nolidad

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In order for this theory to work (the denial of Acts 2 being a fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy of the cleansing of sin and gift of the new life breathed from the Holy Spirit) one would have to work against this passage that clearly demonstrates this was a one time occurrence that's not going to be repeated. It's a denial of what is evidenced in Scripture as a fulfillment of words from God's prophets:

Ezekiel 36:33
So says the Lord Jehovah: In the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be built.
.......there was and will remain only ONE DAY that God cleansed all from sin. King David and John the baptizer were just a couple examples of those who foretold of this DAY:

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Acts 2:36-39
36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”
37When the people [in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven] heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”


So you are a universalist then. Everyone is automatically saved!

That means that at Calvary even Caiphas and Annas and the rest of teh plotters of Jesus had all their sins removed and were saved. Okay then.
 
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nolidad

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Here is the problem with some trying to spiritualize some of the prophecies in the OT, such as your post addresses here.

The following is not rocket science, IMO.

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

The reason we know this land is literal land is because the following is obviously literal land--- wherein your fathers have dwelt. How does it make good sense to apply that land in the literal sense, then turn right around and apply the land they shall dwell in, in a spiritual sense, or whaterever you want to call it that some of these are doing? Is not the land they shall dwell in, the exact same land their fathers have dwelt?

And I get accused of being inconsistent at times, but this is not an example of someone being inconsistent if they are applying the very same land in 2 different manners? Why don't some simply believe what the OT states and means, in a case like this? BTW, I'm not a Dispensationlist as far as I can tell, I'm just simply doing my best to not contradict what is written in these OT Scriptures, and agree with them instead.


I agree with you 100% I am just trying to find out why with folks who love to allegorize and change teh meanings of what is written, why I should take their words as literal, instead of allegorizing their words to make them mean........whatever!
 
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nolidad

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That's not been my assertion.

What I'm suggesting is that, as Paul had written:

"it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel" (Romans 9:6)

That's a self-imposed contradiction that conflicts with what the Holy Spirit has taught the historical Church since inception.

Once again, here is the New covenant in its entirety as declared by God:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

If the provisions of the New Covenant God made with Israel (because Israel couldn't keep the Old one) Thjen when were the terms of the covenant fulfilled? Is there a difficulty understanding the question the way I write it?
 
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mkgal1

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So you are a universalist then. Everyone is automatically saved!

That means that at Calvary even Caiphas and Annas and the rest of teh plotters of Jesus had all their sins removed and were saved. Okay then.
That doesn't have anything to do with my post.

There is ONE day prophesied by Ezekiel that God would cleanse the ancient biblical Israelites from their sin. In Acts 2, we read about 3,000 "God-fearing Jews dwelling in Jerusalem" that acknowledged that cleansing of their sin......and the promised Holy Spirit was poured out on them. If one denies that's fulfilled Scripture.....does that mean a second event is anticipated by those that deny this fulfillment? Or....were the prophets off in their prophecy?
 
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nolidad

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That doesn't have anything to do with my post.

There is ONE day prophesied by Ezekiel that God would cleanse the ancient biblical Israelites from their sin. In Acts 2, we read about 3,000 "God-fearing Jews dwelling in Jerusalem" that acknowledged that cleansing of their sin......and the promised Holy Spirit was poured out on them. If one denies that's fulfilled Scripture.....does that mean a second event is anticipated by those that deny this fulfillment?


But the 3,000 was not all Israel , nor the whole house of Israel and Judah. Ezekiel is all inclusive! Nor did it fulfill teh prophecy of Ezekiel. It may have fulfilled a portion but that is not full fulfillment.

Just like in Acts 2, Peter was not declaring that the signs etc. were a complete fulfilment of Joel, but there were a fulfilment of some things Joel said.
 
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mkgal1

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But the 3,000 was not all Israel
This seems to be the "glue" that's holding the futurist house of cards together. But Paul explained two Israels (described as: the older and the one promised; one born of a slave and the other born of the free woman; one born of the Law and the other born of the Spirit). One passage is in Galatians 4. Paul also wrote:

Romans 9:27
And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, “Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.
Ezekiel is all inclusive! Nor did it fulfill teh prophecy of Ezekiel. It may have fulfilled a portion but that is not full fulfillment.

Just like in Acts 2, Peter was not declaring that the signs etc. were a complete fulfilment of Joel, but there were a fulfilment of some things Joel said.
So....if it's not "full fulfillment" then is there another anticipated fulfillment? Is Jesus going to die on the Cross again? Because Ezekiel has all this tied together (EZ 36:33).....it seems to me.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Jesus said about John being Elijah:

Matthew 11:13-15
King James Version

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus put a big IF to John being Elijah. Israel did not recieve it so John did not fulfill teh role of Elijah. He is still to come!
And to no one's surprise, you are one of those who deny that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy in Malachi 4 regarding Elijah.

Jesus was not saying there that John the Baptist would only be Elijah if people accepted that. Come on! Since when would Jesus allow others to tell Him how a prophecy should be fulfilled?

No, Jesus knew that some of them, like you, would have trouble receiving or accepting that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come because He knew they were hard of spiritual hearing. That's why He said in verse 15 "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear". He knew that only those who had spiritual "ears to hear" would understand and be able to accept that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come.

Was Jesus wrong when He said this:

Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus very specifically said here that Elijah (Elias) came already and they didn't recognize him. Notice there's nothing here saying that this would only be true if they accepted it. It was true because Jesus said it. And the disciples understood that He was speaking of John the Baptist. Why don't you understand Him to have been speaking of John the Baptist? Why do you not accept the NT explanations for the fulfillments of OT prophecies?

Did John the Baptist not "turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers" as Malachi 4:6 indicates that Elijah would do?

His father Zechariah said that is what he would do, so shouldn't we believe that?

Luke 1:12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Just so I don't misunderstand you:

Here is the entire New covenant God declared and replaced the Old Covenant with.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Based on what you have posted on this topic, I must conclude that you do not believe that what God wrote is NOT what He meant.
Double negatives are not easy to understand, so I had to read your last sentence a few times. No, I do not believe that what God wrote is NOT what He meant, I believe that what God wrote IS what He meant. But, I don't agree with you about what He meant.

That we must use "spiritual discernemnt" (aka read between teh lines) to really know what God was actually trying tro say. Am I wrong?
No, you are not wrong. Have you never read 1 Corinthians 2 and 3? Is interpreting scripture supposed to no different than reading the newspaper, a blog or a magazine article?

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Paul himself said that these things we talk about, which I would consider to be among "the deep things of God" that Paul mentioned, "are spiritually discerned". But, here you are scoffing at me when I tell you the same thing that Paul said.
 
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Zao is life

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The land meant is currently desolate first. Currently, in this day and time we live in, this doesn't match reality, unless I'm missing something. The land is not desolate over there any more, yet at the same time, it doesn't appear to have become like the garden of Eden either, at least not yet anyway. With this in mind, let's look at the following.

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

This verse says---thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Yes. It's talking about the fact that both the house of Israel and the house of Judah had been exiled from their land and scattered among the nations, during which time the land was desolate.

In the Bible there have been three periods of exile:

1. Isaiah 7:8 "For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people."

The above in Isaiah 7:8 is referring to the Northern kingdom, Israel, or "the house of Israel", a.k.a "Ephraim" in Biblical prophecy

(the 10 Northern tribes are very often collectively called "Ephraim", and very often called "the house of Israel"), whereas the Southern kingdom, Judah, which consisted of two tribes was called "the house of Judah".

It's very important when we read the prophetic scriptures of the Old Testament that we understand the history and distinguish between which prophetic utterance is talking to which kingdom. For example, when God told the house of Israel/Ephraim (the Northern kingdom) that He was done with them, He mentioned that He would still have mercy on the house of Judah (the Southern kingdom):

Hosea 1:6-7
"And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away.
But I will have mercy on the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen."

Isiah prophesied about the coming exile and scattering among the nations of the house of Israel, and he also prophesied about the exile to Babylon of the house of Judah, but Jeremiah only prophesied about the exile of the house of Judah in Babylon.

Both prophets prophesied an eventual return for all the tribes.

The house of Israel's ten tribes have never returned. The vast majority of them were scattered among the nations and their descendants intermarried with Gentiles to the point where the original ten tribes are untraceable today.

A small minority of the house of Israel (a tiny handful) escaped to the Southern kingdom (Judah) when the king of Assyria invaded Israel (the Northern Kingdom), and those few who escaped became amalgamated with the Jews over time. All the tribes of Israel are later listed as returning from the Babylonian captivity, which took place long after Israel (the Northern kingdom) had gone into exile and had been scattered among the nations.

It's very important that we understand that the Old Testament prophets make a distinction between the house of Judah and the house of Israel, and the context of the passage always tells us which kingdom/people is being spoken of, and it's also important to understand the history, in order to understand the passage by its context. Unfortunately whenever they read anything in the Old Testament prophetic books about Israel, far too many Christians today think that "Israel" = "the Jews" (the house of Judah) - but this is not the case. "Israel" = "the house of Israel" + "the house of Judah" (the Jews).

Ezekiel prophesies regarding both. First the house of Israel, then the unification of the two nations into one nation again.

2. The second exile in the Bible is the exile of the Jews ("the house of Judah") to Babylon, from which they returned.

3. The following exile:

Luke 21:24
"And they shall fall by the sword's edge. And shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the nations until the times of the nations is fulfilled."

That was after 70 A.D, and it was "the Jews".
This verse says---therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. The more I think about it, this verse does indicate that when he hid His face from them, this is meaning because they trespassed against Him, so because of that He then gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Yes.
I'm not entirely sure yet, but maybe I am wrong to conclude He is still hiding His face from them when they are attacked by Gog. And let's assume I am wrong to conclude He is still hiding His face when Gog attacks, the land still has to be desolate first, which doesn't seem to match it's current state, and then when it is no longer desolate, it is because it is being brought back from the sword. And then it becomes like the garden of Eden, which also doesn't appear to match this land's current state.

If some, not meaning you though, perhaps propose that it became like the garden of Eden after it was rebuilt, and that Christ dwelt there, how would it still be like the garden of Eden come 70 AD? If anyone proposes something like that, I don't see that working, not to mention, there was still animal sacrificing going on while Christ was dwelling there, and after He ascended. I don't see any of that being like the garden of Eden. And that brings us back right where I started. That the condition of the land is that it has to be desolate first, which doesn't appear to match it's current state, and that it has to be brought back from the sword before it becomes like the garden of Eden.
We need to understand three things about this:

Firstly we need to understand that a great portion of the land is desert, and there are other prophecies which speak about the desert blooming when the people have been restored to the land, for example:

Isaiah 34:14
"The wilderness and the desert shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the crocus."

Isiaiah 35:6
"Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing; for in the wilderness waters shall break out, and streams in the desert."

The above has never happened - the desert that lies inside the state we today call "Israel", is still desert. However, there are still other things we need to understand:

Secondly we should understand that a great portion of the land was indeed lying desolate and waste until the late 18th and early 19th centuries, when Jews began to migrate back into Palestine from Europe, and began their kibbutz farming.

Most of the land outside the two main populated areas (Jerusalem and Bethlehem) was lying desolate and waste, and no one inhabited it until then. It is the state we know today as "Israel" that has changed all that - but a great portion of the land is still desert, and the greatest portion of Judah (called Judea by the Romans) lies inside the West Bank.

Most of the territory the Jews of today's "Israel" now call theirs, lies inside what was once the Northern kingdom of Israel, a.k.a "Ephraim", a.k.a "the house of Israel".

The Jews are not members of "the house of Israel". They never have been, and never will be, and ALL Jews know that they are members of "the house of Judah" and are not "the house of Israel" .

A lot of confusion stems from the fact that when the Jews declared their independence in 1948, they did not call their new state Judah, nor Judea (as the Romans did), but instead, they called it "Israel".

IMO this state called "Israel" is man-made, brought about through the goals of non-Christian, unbelieving, mostly secular Zionist Jews, and it it did not come about as a result of "God fulfilling the prophecies". The real fulfillment of the prophecies either (a) still lies ahead; or (b) all had a spiritual meaning.

Thirdly we need to understand that in Ezekiel 36:16-38 God is talking to the house of Israel (the Northern kingdom's tribes) not the house of Judah.

In Ezekiel 37:15-28 God says that both the house of Israel and the house of Judah will become united into one nation in the land. Before this, the prophecy talks about bringing the whole house of Israel out of their graves etc. Most people say this is symbolic, but I believe (in the possibility, at least) that it's literally going to happen with the resurrection from the dead at the time of the return of Christ.

Fourthly we need to understand that when we read the Old testament prophecies about Israel being gathered into the land again, this is described using many figures of speech, for example "brought back from the sword to a land that had become desolate and waste", which is only one figure of speech that is used in prophecy when talking about the same thing.

This regathering of both the house of Israel AND the house of Judah back into the land of their fathers is mentioned over and over and over again in the prophetic books of the Bible, for example:

Hosea 1:4-5
"And the LORD said to him, Call his name God Will Sow. For still in a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel on the house of Jehu, and will cause the kingdom of the house of Israel to cease.
And it shall be, at that day I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel."


Hosea 1:10-11
Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.
Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Can you see how the above verse (Hosea 1:11) is talking in one and the same breath about the house of Israel being exiled from the land and scattered "when the bow of Israel is broken in the day of Jezreel", and being gathered back again, and Israel and Judah becoming united into one nation in the land again?

This is just as Ezekiel does in chapter 38-39 of Ezekiel, using different words and different figures of speech.

Ezekiel starts off by prophesying about the regathering of the house of Israel (in chapter 36), then he prophesies of a time when the dry bones will come out of their graves and live again, and that when the dry bones live again, the house of Israel and the house of Judah will become reunited in the land and become one nation under one king (in chapter 37),

then he prophesies that after this (after they had been brought back from the sword and had been living in the land in peace, safety & prosperity for a long time), Gog/Magog will come against them - but in one and the same breath God keeps mentioning the fact that Gog/Magog is coming against a people who had been brought back from the sword, gathered into the land, and blessed in the land with peace, safety & prosperity.

100% for sure God is no longer hiding His face from them when Gog/Magog's army comes against them - Gog/Magog's armies are coming against a people living in peace, safety & prosperity, who had been brought back from the sword, and Gog/Magog decides he's going to attack and take a spoil.

When God destroys Gog/Magog, His name is sanctified once and for all time in that the heathen will all know once and for all, that He is God.
And then it becomes like the garden of Eden, which also doesn't appear to match this land's current state.
Exactly. So it's either still future OR it's all fulfilled in a spiritual way (the way Amils say it is).

PS: Who is "the house of Israel"?

They are the ten tribes who were exiled from the Northern kingdom, scattered among the nations, and never returned. They are the people:-

1. To whom God said:

Hosea 1:4-11
"And the LORD said to him, Call his name God Will Sow. For still in a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel on the house of Jehu, and will cause the kingdom of the house of Israel to cease.
And it shall be, at that day I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away.
But I will have mercy on the house of Judah,
and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

And when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son.
And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.
Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.
Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head,
and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel."

At the time, God had mercy on the house of Judah. Later Judah, too, was exiled from Judah, and went into captivity in Babylon, but they were brought back.

But the house of Israel has never been brought back.

Then Judah was exiled again in 70 A.D and scattered among the nations.

But, since the latter part of the 18th century and during the 19th century, many Jews have returned.

But the house of Israel has never gone back. They were scattered among the nations and their descendants intermarried with Gentiles to the point where the original 10 tribes are untraceable today.

So who are they? How can they be brought back into God's flock and into God's land?

They are the people of whom Paul said,

Romans 9:22-27
"What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;
and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He had before prepared to glory;
whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also of the nations?
As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved."
And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."
Isaiah also cries concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel is as the sands of the sea, a remnant shall be saved."


They are the people of whom Jacob (Israel) said:

Genesis 48:19
"And his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He (Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he is, and his seed shall become (Hebrew: mlo' goy: the fullness of the Gentiles)", translated correctly into English as "a multitude of nations."

In Ezekiel 37, the two "sticks" of Israel and Judah become one again.

How?


This is how:

Galatians 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Colossians 3:11
"where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave or freeman, but Christ is all things in all."

Conclusion:

So the prophecy in Ezekiel (and all the prophecies talking about the regathering of Israel and Judah into the land of their fathers where they will be united into one nation again is either literal and still coming, OR it's fulfillment is spiritual, as the Amils have it.
 
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nolidad

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This seems to be the "glue" that's holding the futurist house of cards together. But Paul explained two Israels (described as: the older and the one promised; one born of a slave and the other born of the free woman; one born of the Law and the other born of the Spirit). One passage is in Galatians 4. Paul also wrote:

Romans 9:27
And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, “Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.

So....if it's not "full fulfillment" then is there another anticipated fulfillment? Is Jesus going to die on the Cross again? Because Ezekiel has all this tied together (EZ 36:33).....it seems to me.

Ezekiel 36:33
King James Version

33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.


So then you believe that all Jews have no iniquities in them for they are all cleansed?

As for Roman 9: yes that has been true of all ages! Only a remant get saved in every generation.

BUT BUT please show that God did not mean all but just a remnant in His New Covenant made to the nation of Israel:

Also god said He will cause them to dwell in their cities and rebuild the wastes. when did that happen around the time of Calvary??? They were already living in cities and teh wastes had been rebuild. NO NO NO this speaks of a future time.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


I do not see a remnant here. but you seem to think so so can you point it out in which verse only a remnant is mentioned?

But I do know God made these promises:

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.


IN Acts 2 this was not fulfilled! They also were not forced in to the bond of the Covenant (New not old),
nor were the rebels purged! This also is a future event.

Zechariah 13:8-9
King James Version

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

This also hasn't happened but will because God said it shall!
 
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