I am righteous

Amen, Amen, Amen.



Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank You for that awesome message.




Lord I Glorify Your Name. I Worship You Father.
I'm standing on Holy Ground.


Cherylq
1 Thessalonians 5:18
In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

but dont you ever want to just quit sinning?
i dont know about you, but i hate sin, the closer i get to God, if i sin, i dont get this glory that comforts me, i get this deep inner travail that cannot stand what i just did and it seems like all my being is being heaved around, sin just doesnt mix with the Holyspirit in me, i will never live a happy life until i cease to sin.

i dont want to get a debate going, though i believe there is plenty of scripture that says christain can live holy lives without sin, and that they must aswell, but really,
dont you atleast desire to just quit sinning?

1st April 2003 at 12:21 PM endure said this in Post #3

but dont you ever want to just quit sinning?
i dont know about you, but i hate sin, the closer i get to God, if i sin, i dont get this glory that comforts me, i get this deep inner travail that cannot stand what i just did and it seems like all my being is being heaved around, sin just doesnt mix with the Holyspirit in me, i will never live a happy life until i cease to sin.

i dont want to get a debate going, though i believe there is plenty of scripture that says christain can live holy lives without sin, and that they must aswell, but really,
dont you atleast desire to just quit sinning?

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I know the feeling! I hate it when I sin, it is not pleasing to God when I do. If we walk in sin then we do not walk in the light. We should seek to be cleansed from all our sinful ways, and not take our sins to lightly.

Romans 6 is a good chapter to read on this, I'l just post the first couple scriptures from it here.

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

So can we be perfect? In one of three of Johns Gospels, it says that if we say we have no sin then we make God a lier.

1st April 2003 at 05:10 PM Job_38 said this in Post #5

So can we be perfect? In one of three of Johns Gospels, it says that if we say we have no sin then we make God a lier.

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Wow! I'm a far cry from perfect that's for sure lol! The best we can do is accept Gods forgiveness and allow him to shape us into what he wants us to be.

It's true we are nothing but a bunch of sinners made clean by the blood of the lamb. But we should never use Gods Grace as an excuse to continue doing what we know to be wrong.

job 38
thats 1 john ch 1

im really not going to get into it, but the bible does teach perfection, not being perfect like God to where you are just like God, but yes it does teach perfection as in being complete and fully mature in Christ. because i can quote you several verses to tell us to be perfect and go unto perfection IN THIS LIFE.
and even in ephesians ch 3, it even said LET THOSE THAT "BE" PERFECT...
paul recognised that some people had reached perfection.
christians hate and are scared of that word, but it simply means to be like Christ in the earth. he wasnt this thing without pain or weakness, but he never sinned and never lost to the devil.

and you cant just say this is simply the way God sees us in Christ, and not how we act, becuase paul said to let everyone that "nameth the name of Christ, depart from iniquity".

so it is clear that we as christians must depart from all iniquity, and it isnt something that is just done in christ the moment we are saved, becuase it is something Christians must do after being saved.

in 1st john its speaking of coming to Christ, if you come to him and say you are without sin, then yes you do make God a liar.
but you cant say that even christians must live in sin becuase it said earlier in that same chapter than if you claim to have fellowship with God and yet walk in darkness of sin, then you are a liar.
see, you cant claim to know God and walk with him fully, if you have sin in your life.
it is impossible to be a saint and a sinner.

and no we cant look at ourselves and say, "well im saved and i still sin" so aparently christians must still sin.
no, you have to say "i still sin" that means i dont know God like i should and i need to change.

Well, you are right. This could turn into some sort of debate, but what a sin and a shame that would be in a forum where we come seeking a Deeper Fellowship with God.

This question is neither impossible to answer nor is it difficult.

Matthew 5:48: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." These are the Words of Jesus. Does anyone seriously think that Jesus was telling us to be perfect as God is perfect? If He is He is certainly contradicting His own teachings about sinful man.

No we all recognize that that verse is taken out of context, and when you go back to verse 38 and start there, outting that verse back into context, it become so very clear what Jesus was saying.

Be very careful of teachers who take verses and preach that we can attain sinless perfection in this dispensation.

Helpful is the study in Romans from about the 12th verse of Chapter 5 through Cahpter 8, which deals with sanctification. Here we see that our UNION with Christ is the basis for our deliverence from sin and that out obedience to God is what leads us to that experience.

gerry,

well, to be honest i think any person who truely knows the bible, is extremely foolish to honestly think it teaches what you think it does, i could easily refute all that, but now isnt the time, and this isnt the place.

altya
well, im simply not satisfied to live a life unlike Christs.
the more im see im not, it doesnt make me accept it.
it greives me, becuase the holyspirit lives in me, and the more he fills me, the more it conflicts with anything unlike him.
not counting all the scriptural evidence i find that says i can and must live without sin.
i dont know,
i just cant live this life happy, if i cant leave this sin behind for good, i love God, and i hate sin.

i think the bible and grace give us provision and direction to be changed unto a true Christ like life, and tells us how to doit.
i wont get into it, but it is there for those who seek it.
and its not simply strategic instruction in things to do, but instruction on how to grow closer to God and to allow him to change you. i agree that in our sinful flesh and human means, we can never do this, but i believe that in this present age and time, we can come to God and have the holyspirit change us. to where we dont habitually sin anymore, and to where we dont have sinful passions and where the things that make us sin today, are simply taken away from our lives.

4th April 2003 at 01:33 PM endure said this in Post #10

gerry,

well, to be honest i think any person who truely knows the bible, is extremely foolish to honestly think it teaches what you think it does, i could easily refute all that, but now isnt the time, and this isnt the place.

altya
well, im simply not satisfied to live a life unlike Christs.
the more im see im not, it doesnt make me accept it.
it greives me, becuase the holyspirit lives in me, and the more he fills me, the more it conflicts with anything unlike him.
not counting all the scriptural evidence i find that says i can and must live without sin.
i dont know,
i just cant live this life happy, if i cant leave this sin behind for good, i love God, and i hate sin.

i think the bible and grace give us provision and direction to be changed unto a true Christ like life, and tells us how to doit.
i wont get into it, but it is there for those who seek it.
and its not simply strategic instruction in things to do, but instruction on how to grow closer to God and to allow him to change you. i agree that in our sinful flesh and human means, we can never do this, but i believe that in this present age and time, we can come to God and have the holyspirit change us. to where we dont habitually sin anymore, and to where we dont have sinful passions and where the things that make us sin today, are simply taken away from our lives.

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Well, I expect that in the apologetics forum, but in a deeper fellowship forum to call a brother "extremely foolish" for insisting that a verse be put back into context, indicates to me a superior attitute that does not come from God. If you chooses to refute Scripture and explain it away in order to prove that your thoughts are correct and everyone else is "foolish", that is your choice, and may you feel blessed in it.

1st April 2003 at 12:09 PM altya said this in Post #1

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


Father, I glory in Your holy name, for in CHRIST I am righteous with His righteousness. I am justified - just as if I'd never sinned! I'm totally
right with You! And I thank You that on the cross JESUS bore all the guilt
of all my sins, including past and present and future ones. How grateful I
am that, because of what JESUS did, You crossed out the whole debt against
me in Your account books. You nailed the account book to the cross, and
closed the account.

I rejoice that through CHRIST I am all right as a person, now and
forever: totally clean, every stain removed and totally forgiven, no matter
how great or recent a failure I've had to confess, or how often I have
failed.

What amazing grace! What undeserved acceptance and favor! How wonderful
that You ask me to do absolutely nothing to earn Your forgiveness - no
striving to measure up, no self-punishment, no prolonged remorse, no
self-blame, no deeds of penance and that I don't have to sink down into
regrets, or into shame, or into denial, or into excuses for things I do
wrong. I'm so thankful that You don't hold a pair of scales and ask me to
pile up enough good works to outweigh my sins, my failures, my unworthiness
and that it's all by grace through faith. What an incentive to live a life
that please You, that brings You joy and not grief!

I rejoice in You, LORD, my soul revel in You; for You have clothed me with the garments of salvation, You have wrapped me with a robe of righteousness and beauty, as a bridegroom dressed for his wedding, as a bride adorned with her jewels.

In Jesus name, Amen.

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Joy and Peace that goes beyond words.  It's this that is down deep in my heart that I've always held unto.  I can't write in words how much this has meant to me over the years.  It's like a beacon thats always on reminding me I am a child of the Living God.  How greatful I am.

Thanks for the beautiful Post!!

1st April 2003 at 08:22 PM endure said this in Post #7



and no we cant look at ourselves and say, "well im saved and i still sin" so aparently christians must still sin.
no, you have to say "i still sin" that means i dont know God like i should and i need to change.

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let's if I can I explain this. As Christians we do give up our sins, and want nothing to do with them. The Holy spirit convicts us when we do sin. But we are still prone to make mistakes, we are still prone to sin. Even when we do stumble or fall we know we'll be forgiven, but that's not to say we can use that as an excuse to continue in sin.

Every person we read about in the Bible other than Jesus, stumbled and fell short of the Glory of God at some point in time. But once they confessed their sin, turned from it, and started to do what was right they were forgiven.

He who began a good work in you (Salvation), will carry it onto completion (sanctification), until the day of Christ Jesus (Glorification).

all I can say to this thread is even in my most committed state to God in the past, I had sin. I WILL not make that mistake again to think satan will never have a stronghold in my life. I know i am committed to not letting that happen. How???? by staying close to Jesus, who shows me every day my weaknesses. There is a great arrogance to think we never sin. beware... satan would just love to let you keep thinking day

repent daily to God, and when you stumble, repent some more. NOTHING will take me away from God and i refuse to ever let satan tell me that lie again.

We walk in the righteousness of Jesus.

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Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

gerry,
are you sure that my reply was anything that yours just wasnt?

i wasnt in anyway reffering to what you spoke about, i was reffering to your overall view of perfection being foolish. i dont mean you any harm or have any wrong feeling toward you, but yes i do disagree with you, and DEEPer fellowship forum or not, i can still you i disagree with you. and i dont mean in it in a harsh way, but i must be honest, i dont see how anyone who truly knows the word of God can believe what you do and not be foolish, if im wrong i am so ignorantly. but yes i do think you have done a foolish thing, if you have a good handle on the bible. im simply being honest, im not being harsh, and being honest and politely saying such things doesnt do anyone any harm.


everyone,
well, isnt anyone sick of just being forgiven? oh i thank God for everlasting grace, but im just tired of being full of sin that God hates and that i hate and i just have to keep asking forgiveness.
i mean isnt the blood and the holyspirit supposed to make me able to overcome satan?

altya

i want to discuss this in the scripture a little, please dont let this sound like im arguing...k?   im just in a friendly way, trying to explain why i have such a passion to cease to sin and come unto perfection.

you believe that even when we as christians under the blood, SIN, it doesnt register to our accounts? but that we are still seen holy through our being under the blood? that the righteousness of Christ is bestowed in us, whether we live holiness in our actions of not?

see, i just dont agree with that for a few reasons.

1. the bible does not have the attitude that we can ever be content to have any sin still working in our lives, we must continually rid ourselves of all it, and it exhorts us to never rest untill it is gone.

2 tim 2.19
...let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2 cor 6.4,7
approving ourselves as the ministers of God...by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left.

romans 6.2
how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?

2 cor 7.1
...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, and perfect holiness in the fear of God.

psalm 97.10
ye that love the lord, HATE evil

1 tim 5.22
...neither be partaker of other mens sin, keep thyself pure.

hebrews 12.1
lay aside every...sin...

2. i do not believe that the bible teaches comfort to those Christians who are still sinning. as in, i dont believe the bible teaches that is ever acceptable.

hebrews 12.13-14
follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the lord.

(this holiness is a holiness that must be heavily sought after, or followed after, it isnt something that we simply rest in, and without it, we cant see God.)

1 tim 4.16
take heed unto thyself...for in doing this though shalt save thyself.

2 cor 5.9
wherefor we labour, that whether present or absent we may be accepted of him...

1 john 1.6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.

(i dont believe a christian can claim to really know God and have a healthy relationship with him and be in right standing with him, if they are sinning)

3.i do not believe that the bible teaches that it is ok for Christians to linger in any sin, but that it teaches for them to purify themselves, and if they do not, then they are still in danger of hell fire. becuase through the blood and Spirit, we are fully able to be free of sin, and no christian can say they arent.

galations 5.9-24

now the works of the flesh are manifest...OF WHICH I TELL YOU..THAT THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD...and they that are christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, if we live in the spirit, let us also walk in the spirit.

2 cor 3.17,18
now the lord is that spirit, and where the spirit of the lord is there is liberty. but we all, with open face beholding, as in a glass the glory of the lord, ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, even as by the spirit of the lord.

( i believe we can be changed into new creatures, that are not sinful creatures, but pure and holy creatures that resemble the glory of the lord, and i believe this applies to us now, becuase the spirit is with us now)

through the spirit of God we can be changed, i believe people never come to realise their potentail to be pure becuase they never truely know the holyspirit close enough.
i mean, we say we sin becuase of the flesh, but the flesh by the spirit can be crucified and true people of God HAVE crucified it as it says so galations 6.24

the bible says we must circumsise our hearts (souls) in the spirit,
and that by the spirit we can MORTIFY the DEEDS of the body.
romans 8.

i believe that the holyspirit can change us into people who do not sin.

and finally,
phillipians 3.15
let us there, as many as BE perfect, be thus minded...

some people were perfect.
it doesnt mean that they became Gods or these unthinkable things, but it does mean they matured fully in Christ and put away sinful things etc.

endure, i think you are mostly right. But sin is present in all of our lives. 1 John 1. God is at work peeling layers off of us, the more we walk in the light, the more that He will reveal to us.

I don't know about you, but hte closer I draw to God, the more I see is wrong with me, or more inperfect.

I look at like baptism. Baptism doesn't save, but I don't think we should take it lightly and NOT be baptised. It is commanded.

The Bible clearly teaches salvation as given and worked out in the individuals, until we reach PERFECTION (glorification), when Jesus returns. Those who have trusted in Jesus will be in heaven.

CAVEAT though: EVERYthing we do, both righteous and sinful, will be revealed.

I look at it as a "This is your life" To tell you the truth, if I had to get into heaven with my life story, i'm doomed.

We should take care of our walk in Christ, but lose my salvation, all I can tell you my brother, is read your Bible again.