If you want another analogy.....
How about we just forget about your attempts to make analogies
about the Gospel and just and take what SCRIPTURE says instead?
The Bible teaches that (as a result of Adam's sin) "
in that day"
he died spiritually (he did not die physically) we are all born
spiritually DEAD and slaves in Satan's Kingdom. As such, there
are some consequences... one that we are destined to eternal hell (unless God elects to save us) and the other that
NO MAN will ever
"
seek God" until
AFTER he has already been "
elected" by God
and "
drawn"to Christ. And that does NOT happen to all men.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof
thou shalt surely die.
The Bible insists (both in the OT and NT) that
NO MAN
will ever "
seek God" until he God "
draws" them and
ALL MEN
that God draws "
shall come" to Christ and He loses
NONE of them.
This Biblical fact immediately destroys your synergistic heresy.
Rom 3:10-12
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth,
there is none that seeketh
after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together
become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good,
no, not one.
Psa 14:2-3
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand,
and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy:
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psa 53:2-3 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand,
that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Again, JESUS PROMISED [in John 6] that
NO MAN can ever
come to Him unless the Father "
draws" them and
ALL MEN
the Father draws "
shall come" to Him, and He would
LOSE NONE
of "
His sheep". [John 6:44, 37,39] This Biblical reality immediately
destroys your synergistic heresy.
What PART of "
NO MAN" and "
ALL MEN" do you not understand?
Salvation is not the result of men wanting to be saved or men
doing something to be saved... because they are all
DEAD. They cannot "
seek God" because they are
DEAD. This is a very basic
and essential element of the Gospel of the Bible. And, again, this
immediately destroys your synergistic heresy.
The FIRST act in the process of Salvation is God "
choosing"
or "
electing" who He would saved (before the foundation of
the world) based ONLY on His Good Pleasure and
NOT because
of anything those people would do during their lifetime. And the
SECOND act in the process of Salvation is God "
drawing" the elect
to Christ. Man plays
NO PART in the process of His salvation until
AFTER he is regenerated... and then man's part is all because it is
God (indwelling in him) that causes him to do His Good Pleasure.
Php 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you
[those already regenerated]
both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
And, so, whatever "analogy" you can imagine it is not Biblical
unless it says men are spiritually
DEAD and cannot make a move
toward God unless/until He has (a) "
elected" them to salvation and
(b) He begins to "
draw" them to Christ. Again, being spiritually
DEAD, man cannot "
seek God" in any way. That is the "analogy"
the Bible provides for us... we need not seek another.
Eph 2:1 And you
hath he quickened,
[made alive]
who were
[spiritually] DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 Even when we
[the saints] were
DEAD in sins,
hath quickened us [translated us from Death to Life]
together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Col_2:13 And you
[saints], being
DEAD in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened
[translated to Life] together with him,
having forgiven you all trespasses;
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,
and death by sin; and
so death passed upon all men,
for that all have sinned:
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was
shapen in iniquity;
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Rom 8:7 Because
the carnal mind [of unregenerated men]
is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh
cannot please God.
1Co 2:14
But the
natural man [unregenerated man] receiveth not
the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
Rom 8:7 -9
Because the carnal mind
[of unregenerated man]
is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then
they that are in the flesh cannot
please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that
the
[indwelling] Spirit of God dwell in you
[already being saved].
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:
he that believeth in me,
though he were dead,
yet shall he live:
Again, there are DOZENS of other Scriptures teaching that men
are born spiritually
DEAD and cannot "
seek God" until
AFTER
He has already (a) "
chosen" or "
elected" to save them and
(b) He has already begun to "
draw" them to Christ.
... then if someone gave you a movie ticket as a free gift, then it would still require you to go into a movie theater in order to fully receive that gift...
Again you demonstrate that you REFUSE to accept the Biblical Fact
that regeneration is a GIFT of Grace requiring
NO WORK of man.
In your analogy man must "go into the movie theater in order to
fully receive that gift...." But in GOD'S analogy men do NOTHING.
The Bible's analogy of salvation is the picture of Lazarus being
DEAD for four days (his body "
stinketh")
Jesus had to "call" Lazarus by name (he was DEAD, he could do
NOTHING of his own). Then Jesus had to give Lazarus the will and
strength to rise from his death bed and to come forth ALIVE...
none of this was a "work" of Lazarus. It was ALL of God.
This is the BIBLICAL analogy of salvation, notice that (a) it
does not apply to all men, only those Jesus calls by name and
(b) those called do no "work"... until AFTER they have already
been saved/regenerated/born again... then they show the "fruit"
of being saved - some thirty-fold, others sixty-fold and some
one hundred-fold.
EVERY analogy you can/will provide depends on men "
working"
before they are regenerated/indwelt/born again... when the BIBLE
insists that any "
fruit" saved men produce is the
RESULT of already
being saved/indwelt/born again... and never the
CAUSE of it. Again,
this immediately destroys your false synergistic "gospel".
Titus 2:11-14 described as salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, so it is a free gift, but being trained involves our participation, though doing what is godly does nothing to earn that gift.
Again you provide a PERFECT example of how you
CONFLATE
the process of salvation. The
CONTEXT of the passage is
LIMITED
to only those "
elected" and "
indwelt". The words "
us" and "
we"
and "
our" are talking about REGENERATED men... not unsaved
men. If you cannot discern the
CONTEXT of a passage then
you have no hope of ever understanding the
MEANING.
Faith is not listed in the Bible as a good work. It would contradictory to say that we are justified by faith and not by works if faith was a work. Ephesians 2:8-10 is speaking about salvation by grace through faith that is the gift, not about faith being the gift. If we could earn our salvation by our works, then we would have something to boast in ourselves about, however, salvation is not something that can be earned, but rather it is a gift. Expressing our faith in God to guide us in how to live through following His instructions does not leave any room for boasting out of arrogance.
Exactly... and yet you INSIST that our salvation includes our "works"
of doing something BEFORE we are regenerated. You gave several
"analogies" that required men produce some "work" before they
receive the "free gift", thereby contradicting what you say above.
Obviously it is not a "free gift" if it REQUIRES some "work" of man
in order for it to be effective. Again, your synergistic heresy is
immediately destroyed by this Biblical fact.
Listen, we can settle this very quickly.
The Bible teaches that some men were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.
That immediately destroys you false synergistic gospel and supports
the True Gospel of Sovereign Grace (monergism).
(1) First Proof
In Mark 4'11-12 Jesus reveals some men are GIVEN understanding
of the "
Kingdom of God" while other men are
NEVER MEANT to
"
perceive" or "
understand" or "
be converted" or ever have their
"
sins forgiven". Obviously, when men were
NEVER MEANT to
have their "
sins forgiven" they were not included in the Atonement
and they have no chance of salvation.
Clearly this shows your false doctrine of the Gospel as a "free offer'
to all men and that salvation is possible to all... or that Jesus PAID
for the sins of all men, is just demonstrating your inability to
harmonize ALL RELATED verses and, therefore, your false
conclusions of what the Gospel actually teaches.
Of course this fact immediately destroys you heretical synergistic
gospel where salvation is a "free offer" to all men. But your fight
is with the Words of Christ (not my words).
Second Proof
In Romans 9 the Bible reveals that salvation is dependent
ONLY
on who God shows mercy... not on the will or works of men and
that God
CREATED some men to be "
vessels of mercy" (saved)
and other men to be "
vessels of wrath fitted for destruction"
(obviously men
NEVER MEANT to be saved)
Of course this Biblical fact immediately destroys your heresy about
the gospel being a "free offer" to all men. But, again, your fight
is with the Words of God (not with my words).
Third Proof
In Matthew 13 Jesus PROMISES the Christian "
Kingdom of Heaven"
(the Christian church) consists of MANY unsaved "
tares" sown by
Satan and destined to the same eternal fire as Satan... and the
church also includes saved "
wheat" sown by God and destined
to eternal life.
Of course this Biblical fact immediately destroys your heresy
about the gospel being a "free offer" to all men. Those who
are unsaved "
tares" sown by Satan were
NEVER MEANT to be
saved... they were
NEVER "
chosen" or "
elected" to be "
His sheep".
Once again, your fight is with the Word of God (not my words).
If you think that I am intentionally ignoring any verses that contradict my position, then by all means please cite them, and while your at it, please harmonize the verses that I cited to show how they support your position instead of mine.
I just did... but there are DOZENS more.
Your fight is that you preach a synergistic heresy instead of Truth.
(the
BROAD WAY that leads many "Christians" into destruction) it
contradicts the monergistic Gospel of Sovereign Grace which is
the
narrow way that leads real Christians into eternal life...
and FEW "Christians" find it.
In the churches there are basically TWO (2) different gospels.
The first says that men are
NOT born totally
DEAD in sin and
SLAVES in Satan's Kingdom... they still have enough life in them
to "
seek God" (contradicting both the OT and NT verses above)
This false "gospel" teaches that
ALL MEN have the opportunity
to be saved (contradicting the Scriptures above) and that MEN
initiate their own salvation by doing some good "work" like
saying the sinner's prayer or making an altar call or repenting
of some sins or receiving water baptism or "inviting" Jesus into
their hearts or DECIDING (a mental work) to "
believe" in Jesus.
These are all "works" (actions) men must do to be saved and
then God
SEES what a good work man has done and He is then
OBLIGATED to finish the salvation process. This is the heresy of
synergism, the
BROAD WAY that leads many "christians" into
destruction and MANY (most in the churches) follow this heresy.
The True Gospel of Sovereign Grace is that ALL MEN are born dead
and destined to eternal hell. But God decided to have a people for
Himself and "
chose" or "
elected" who He would save before the
foundation of the world (based ONLY on His Good Pleasure and
not on any action or work that person would ever do) and God
provided a Savior for His "
elect".... and only His "
elect".
This True Gospel of Grace teaches some men were NEVER MEANT
to be saved and that God CREATED some men to be "vessels of
wrath fitted for destruction". This Gospel immediately destroys
the false "gospel" of synergism which pretends that all men have
the opportunity to be saved.
This is the True Gospel of monergism and FEW Christians find it...
it is the minority view of "Christians" because, as Jesus explained,
most "Christians" are really unsaved "
tares" sown by Satan.
This is the
narrow way that leads real Christians to eternal life
and
FEW Christians find it.
Again, the Biblical fact that some men were
NEVER MEANT to
be saved, that some men are
CREATED to be "
vessels of wrath" and the churchs contains
MANY unsaved "
tares" sown by Satan, immediately destroys your heresy of synergism and the delusion
that MEN initiate (or have a part) in becoming part of "
His Sheep",
who were "
elected" by God before the world began.
Listen, I do not expect you to understand or accept the True Gospel.
The Bible is clear that
FEW Christians will... however, as a real saint,
I am obligated (commanded) to refute your synergistic heresy and
explain what the Bible really teaches. So I have done just that.
You can (and will) follow whatever synergistic heresy you want
but you are only showing the "
fruit" of someone who was not
given the "
ears to hear" and, therefore, must intentionally ignore
all the Scriptures above (and many more) in order to PROTECT
your delusions. There is nothing new here, it has always been
this way in the churches.
Jim
