What Do You Consider Evidence of the Supernatural?

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

One of things I've discovered is the Big Bang Theory from the evolutionist side does not readily explain what happened before the big bang. It wasn't an explosion, but an expansion so where did all the energy come from? I think we both agree there was a beginning from discovering the CMB. With creation science, we have the start of the spacetime caused by God -- "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1

This can be readily demonstrated by the fourth dimension and how the x, y, and z-axes follow. We usually call the fourth dimension time, but it also includes space with the other three dimensions that time can access. It becomes spacetime. Us humans, being in three dimensions cannot control time. We cannot stop it, but we can make it appear faster or slower. We can time travel into the future, but can't travel backward in time. It's strange how time can be started from evolution when it affects only the three dimensions.

Anyway, we have the universe, Earth, and everything in it as evidence for God or for evolution depending on what beliefs you hold.

I think what makes the argument stronger for God is that he also tells us that he created the electromagnetic spectrum (EMS) on the first day. "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." Genesis 1:3

What we find is that the EMS contains all of the energy in the universe. Later, we find both Newton and Einstein stated the fact that energy can neither be created or destroyed, but only transferred.

Thus, my point is does the EMS show something that is supernatural? We cannot have anything like this just pop up in our three dimensional universe as it would have to be created before the universe started to expand. It is a tremendous amount of energy that isn't present in quantum mechanics. I do agree that what Newton and Einstein discovered is part of our natural world, but not the creation of the EMS.

So, I thought where did this energy come from? The creationists have an explanation.

Bungle_Bear · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
The creationists have an explanation.

Goddidit is not an explanation.

pitabread · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
The creationists have an explanation.

It never ceases to amaze me how creationists don't know what "explanation" means.

For example:

With creation science, we have the start of the spacetime caused by God

But how did God do it? If you can propose a "how", and not just a "who", then you'll start to have an explanation.

(And you'll have to do a little better than simply quoting Genesis. Hint: the explanation isn't in the Bible.)

Hans Blaster · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
What we find is that the EMS contains all of the energy in the universe.

But we don't. All of the energy in the Universe is not in the form of photons.

Speedwell · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
One of things I've discovered is the Big Bang Theory from the evolutionist side does not readily explain what happened before the big bang.

At last! We've been trying to tell creationists that for years. I'm pleased to see that it's finally sinking in with a least one of you. :clap:

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

Bungle_Bear said:
Goddidit is not an explanation.

Except we have his autobiography and he said those things first. I think science can be used to back up what is in the Book of Genesis.

His "In the beginning" started time and the fourth dimension and the other three dimensions followed. It's difficult to argue that time is supernatural in origin though as the universe could've started from a singularity or quantum particles popping into and out of existence. Anyway, there is a counter explanation and today it is accepted as part of science classes.

However, I have not heard anything about where all the energy that the universe would need came from nor any explanation for the electromagnetic spectrum. I can show that it would take a great number of photons to produce such unimaginable energy. Something that an all-powerful God explained in a few words of how he did it. That sounds supernatural to me. It isn't natural. What is natural is the result. Anything with that much energy had to be outside of our natural world.

Hans Blaster · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
However, I have not heard anything about where all the energy that the universe would need came from nor any explanation for the electromagnetic spectrum. I can show that it would take a great number of photons to produce such unimaginable energy.

The "electromagnetic spectrum" isn't any thing special, it is just the fact that photons come in different energies.

Photons emerge spontaneously in any high energy density environment.

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

pitabread said:
It never ceases to amaze me how creationists don't know what "explanation" means.

For example:

With creation science, we have the start of the spacetime caused by God

But how did God do it? If you can propose a "how", and not just a "who", then you'll start to have an explanation.

(And you'll have to do a little better than simply quoting Genesis. Hint: the explanation isn't in the Bible.)

With the beginning came the Kalam's Cosmological Argument which requires timelessness and spacelessness. I can give you how he did it, but you have nothing to counter it. So no need to go further.

Bungle_Bear · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
I think science can be used to back up what is in the Book of Genesis.

You may think what you like. You're still wrong.

It's difficult to argue that time is supernatural in origin though

Yet you are trying to make that argument. Why?

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
But we don't. All of the energy in the Universe is not in the form of photons.

The energy could be represented in electron volts or energy of a photon and then show what wavelengths of light emit it and how much.

Hans Blaster said:
The "electromagnetic spectrum" isn't any thing special, it is just the fact that photons come in different energies.

Photons emerge spontaneously in any high energy density environment.

That's just crazy talk. The EMS is something special. You don't know what EMS is. It contains all the energy in the universe and is reflected by objects in. One can't just have photons like you stated (although the amount of energy can be measured in the energy of photons, specifically electron volts). That I agree with.

Hans Blaster · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
You don't know what EMS is.

I'm not sure you could be more wrong. But, I suspect you'll try.

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

Bungle_Bear said:
You may think what you like. You're still wrong.

No, I'm not. You are. You are wrong about almost everything. Or else you would've presented an answer or argument.

Bungle_Bear said:
Yet you are trying to make that argument. Why?

Because time screws up quantum mechanics. Stephen Hawking admitted that quantum particles would need space to move around in and do its magic. That would also require time if it is to move and not just sit there. We can have space in our three dimensions, but not time.

Speedwell · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
Except we have his autobiography and he said those things first. I think science can be used to back up what is in the Book of Genesis.

You have. That the Bible is such a thing is an act of faith, not an objective fact.

Hans Blaster · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
One can't just have photons like you stated (although the amount of energy can be measured in the energy of photons, specifically electron volts). That I agree with.

Kinetic energy is NOT photons or part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Nuclear binding energy is not electromagnetic. Gravitational energy is not electromagnetic. Rest-mass energy (since you mentioned equivalence earlier) is not electromagnetic energy. (In fact, since photons have no rest mass, rest-mass energy and electromagnetic energy are *MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE*.)

Hans Blaster · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
No, I'm not. You are. You are wrong about almost everything. Or else you would've presented an answer or argument.

Most of your posts are nonsense, or not science. I'm only replying to select errors in physics. Exactly how much have you formally studied physics?

Bungle_Bear · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
No, I'm not. You are. You are wrong about almost everything. Or else you would've presented an answer or argument.

I'm expected to present a more detailed answer or argument refuting your nonsense than "your argument is not an argument"? A simple explanation is most often the best explanation. I've provided all the answer you need.

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
Kinetic energy is NOT photons or part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Nuclear binding energy is not electromagnetic. Gravitational energy is not electromagnetic. Rest-mass energy (since you mentioned equivalence earlier) is not electromagnetic energy. (In fact, since photons have no rest mass, rest-mass energy and electromagnetic energy are *MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE*.)

You're just bringing in a red herring fallacy. We were discussing photons and it explains the energy of the objects in regards to the EMS. Notice we had to have the energy first before the objects could be made. Thus, God explains what he did on the first day and terms of time beginning, all the energy of the universe being created as light waves of the EMS, and separating the light and dark void and calling the light part day and the dark part night. He also created Earth.

Hans Blaster said:
Most of your posts are nonsense, or not science. I'm only replying to select errors in physics. Exactly how much have you formally studied physics?

It's my hypothesis and I provided a cogent argument. I gave the evolutionists (evos) their argument of everything in the universe, but they have no explanation for where the energy came from. It can't just pop up from nothing. Time can't just start from nothing. Yet, that's your argument. Anyway, the question still remains can the EMS be considered supernatural? Nothing in our natural world can create it according to its properties.

Bungle_Bear · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
You're just bringing in a red herring fallacy. We were discussing photons and it explains the energy of the objects in regards to the EMS. Notice we had to have the energy first before the objects could be made. Thus, God explains what he did on the first day and terms of time beginning, all the energy of the universe being created as light waves of the EMS, and separating the light and dark void and calling the light part day and the dark part night. He also created Earth.

You don't know the Genesis timeline (no suprise there). God created earth and water before he created light:

1.In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Feel free to quote the bible demonstrating otherwise.....

Hans Blaster · Dec 2, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
You're just bringing in a red herring fallacy. We were discussing photons and it explains the energy of the objects in regards to the EMS. Notice we had to have the energy first before the objects could be made. Thus, God explains what he did on the first day and terms of time beginning, all the energy of the universe being created as light waves of the EMS, and separating the light and dark void and calling the light part day and the dark part night. He also created Earth.

You said:

jamesbond007 said:
What we find is that the EMS contains all of the energy in the universe.

And that is the claim I have spend most of these posts disputing. (Mostly because it isn't true.)

Until you can invoke the physics correctly, there is no point trying to consider your related God claim.

jamesbond007 · Dec 2, 2020

Bungle_Bear said:
I'm expected to present a more detailed answer or argument refuting your nonsense than "your argument is not an argument"? A simple explanation is most often the best explanation. I've provided all the answer you need.

Still nothing. I presented a logical argument for how the universe started and where all the energy it needed was created before it started itself. Also, the day and night thing was explained. Just what is considered day and what is considered night or morning and night. The creator also created the heavens and Earth.

What Do You Consider Evidence of the Supernatural?

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