We are entering the section of our apologetics course where we are talking about miracles - God acting specially in the world. Are miracles inherently implausible? Is there some problem with the idea of miracles? What's the problem with miracles?
Can you define what a miracle is?We are entering the section of our apologetics course where we are talking about miracles - God acting specially in the world. Are miracles inherently implausible? Is there some problem with the idea of miracles? What's the problem with miracles?
Can you define what a miracle is?
How do you tell the difference between a miracle and advanced technology or physics we don't know about yet? How do you verify they are from a god?
My problem with them: I have no way to personally verify that "miracles" come from "almighty God", or if they come from a lesser but still powerful being (god-like devas in Buddhism), from other causes, or if they were fabricated.We are entering the section of our apologetics course where we are talking about miracles - God acting specially in the world. Are miracles inherently implausible? Is there some problem with the idea of miracles? What's the problem with miracles?
How do you determine that when someone walks on water or food is created out of nothing the cause is a god?Good question. There's a number of ways to define miracle. I'll try to offer a few. A miracle is an extraordinary manifestation of God's Lordship. God's Lordship is his authority and control over the world. This ordinarily is manifested in what we call the regularity of nature. But sometimes God acts in an extraordinary way and shows us that he has complete control over the world he has made. Examples are turning water to wine and raising Lazarus from the dead.
You could also understand a miracle as God's special action within creation. God is always acting to uphold creation, sustaining "natural laws", causing cells to divide and hearts to beat, etc. But sometimes he acts specially by contravening "natural laws". Examples would be walking on water, feeding the 5,000, etc...
Why should I conclude that a "miracle" happened over "I don't know".Everything that we encounter is from God. But how do we know that God is acting specially? How do we know that when Jesus turned water to wine that he did so using only the immediate power of God and not some advanced technology? I suppose we know that Jesus acted with divine power because the word of God tells us.
This is the issue, there is no way to know if a miracle happened or not no matter what happened.Or when someone who has cancer for whom we are praying recovers in an unexplainable way - how do we know that this was an event of miraculous healing? I suppose we don't know for sure, but we give thanks to God either way.
How do you determine that when someone walks on water or food is created out of nothing the cause is a god?
Why should I conclude that a "miracle" happened over "I don't know".
This is the issue, there is no way to know if a miracle happened or not no matter what happened.
Why do you believes the claims of the bible are true?The only person that I know of who has walked on water and multiplied loaves and fish is Jesus. He claimed to be doing the works of God, and so I believe his claims.
Why would I conclude he was actually God? Without good evidence for the event why wouldn't the conclusion be "I don't know"?In the case of Jesus you have someone who predicts that he will be killed and then will rise from the dead. He claims to be God. Then his words come to pass. Assuming that he did indeed make these claims and did indeed rise from the dead, what reason would you have to doubt his claim to be God?
It is not that I have reason to doubt. I would not have any good reasons to believe it was from a god. What is the evidence? The "miracle" is not the evidence.If you were one of the Israelites who witness the parting of the Red Sea, what reason would you have to doubt that it was God who acted?
The only person that I know of who has walked on water and multiplied loaves and fish is Jesus. He claimed to be doing the works of God, and so I believe his claims.
In the case of Jesus you have someone who predicts that he will be killed and then will rise from the dead. He claims to be God. Then his words come to pass. Assuming that he did indeed make these claims and did indeed rise from the dead, what reason would you have to doubt his claim to be God?
If you were one of the Israelites who witness the parting of the Red Sea, what reason would you have to doubt that it was God who acted?
We are entering the section of our apologetics course where we are talking about miracles - God acting specially in the world. Are miracles inherently implausible? Is there some problem with the idea of miracles? What's the problem with miracles?
The problem is that there appears to always be special pleading going on with the supernatural or spiritual so there's no real way to investigate, let alone measure it, in a way that can't be chalked up to coincidence, confirmation bias, etc. If there was something like magic or the like and we could reasonably, with particular technology or such, verify and confirm that there is some set of rules that governs how it works, then fine, it'd be something to take seriously.My position is that until someone demonstrates that there is something that is supernatural or that there is a spiritual realm, any discussion of miracles is moot. Any explanation, including the authors knowing lied (I don't think that's the case), is more plausible than that any of it happened.
Good question. There's a number of ways to define miracle. I'll try to offer a few. A miracle is an extraordinary manifestation of God's Lordship. God's Lordship is his authority and control over the world. This ordinarily is manifested in what we call the regularity of nature. But sometimes God acts in an extraordinary way and shows us that he has complete control over the world he has made. Examples are turning water to wine and raising Lazarus from the dead.
You could also understand a miracle as God's special action within creation. God is always acting to uphold creation, sustaining "natural laws", causing cells to divide and hearts to beat, etc. But sometimes he acts specially by contravening "natural laws". Examples would be walking on water, feeding the 5,000, etc...
Everything that we encounter is from God. But how do we know that God is acting specially? How do we know that when Jesus turned water to wine that he did so using only the immediate power of God and not some advanced technology? I suppose we know that Jesus acted with divine power because the word of God tells us.
In the case of Jesus you have someone who predicts that he will be killed and then will rise from the dead. He claims to be God. Then his words come to pass. Assuming that he did indeed make these claims and did indeed rise from the dead, what reason would you have to doubt his claim to be God?
My position is that until someone demonstrates that there is something that is supernatural or that there is a spiritual realm, any discussion of miracles is moot. Any explanation, including the authors knowing lied (I don't think that's the case), is more plausible than that any of it happened.
Tell me what my middle name is in the next 30 minutes and I'll believe you.How to lock yourself in the dark cave forever in three easy steps:
- Never believe in the supernatural without evidence.
- Deny all evidence for the supernatural (miracles) as being impossible from the outset.
- Rinse. Repeat.
Tell me what my middle name is in the next 30 minutes and I'll believe you.
Make me levitate. Demonstrate the supernatural. Go ahead; I'll wait. (I said demonstrate, not report stories. Without demonstration, stories are just stories.)
The way to demonstrate a miracle is to perform one. I'd prefer that it'd be under controlled conditions ala James Randi, but whatever.Wouldn't levitation be a miracle? You said that you won't even talk about miracles until the supernatural is demonstrated, but it seems to me that the only way to demonstrate the supernatural is by talking about miracles. Indeed, the core of this last post of yours is nothing more than two miracles.