Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But Jesus didn't need faith, because he was God, or at least he had enough to do everything,
We need it though. He rebuked the disciples for their lack of faith several times, and they were seeing this stuff he was doing.

There is scripture stating that he could not do many healings in his hometown, due to unbelief of the recipients.

But sign, as I have stated, is a different category.
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Then its no longer a sign gift.

God still heals today, of course, no one is denying that.

Signs are different, signs are meant to testify towards something, and thus, its guaranteed to happen, level of faith is not a criteria.

For example, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus fed the 5000 when no one was expecting him to.

They are meant to happen, and it happened as a sign to Israel, that their Messiah is here in the flesh (John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4)

Yes God can answer any prayer. There is a difference if you have the gift. Then God will tell you when to lay your hands on someone and there is a guarantee of the healing to happen. It's much like when the Holy Spirit lead Philip. (Acts 8:25-40)
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There is scripture stating that he could not do many healings in his hometown, due to unbelief of the recipients.

But sign, as I have stated, is a different category.

I think, he couldn't because he wouldn't, unless they believed.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes God can answer any prayer. There is a difference if you have the gift. Then God will tell you when to lay your hands on someone and there is a guarantee of the healing to happen. It's much like when the Holy Spirit lead Philip. (Acts 8:25-40)

Examples of healing as a sign gift would be Peter's shadow, and Paul's handkerchiefs healing in Acts.
 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,277
5,237
45
Oregon
✟952,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
I think, he couldn't because he wouldn't, unless they believed.

Do you think anyone, including the 12, believe Jesus could actually feed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 2 fishes?

I think there were times Jesus did things to either increase or sow the seeds of faith, but also times, when He also expected people (after a certain point maybe) to then have at least some faith after that maybe, etc...

Times when He would do things regardless or irregardless, and maybe times when He would not do some things regardless or irregardless maybe, etc...

Sounds just like God to me, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think there were times Jesus did things to either increase or sow the seeds of faith, but also times, when He also expected people (after a certain point maybe) to then have at least some faith after that maybe, etc...

Times when He would do things regardless or irregardless, and maybe times when He would not do some things regardless or irregardless maybe, etc...

Sounds just like God to me, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

So what I am saying is that signs belong to a category of special miracles, miracles that are going to happen regardless of the level of faith.

Exodus 4 has some examples, and is probably where signs are first mentioned in the bible.
 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,277
5,237
45
Oregon
✟952,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
So what I am saying is that signs belong to a category of special miracles, miracles that are going to happen regardless of the level of faith.

Exodus 4 has some examples, and is probably where signs are first mentioned in the bible.
Aren't all miracles signs though...?

What is the purpose of categorizing certain miracles...? What do you maybe hope to accomplish or point out by or about doing that, etc...?

Is it just that some take faith and some maybe do not, or what exactly, etc...?

God Bless!
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Aren't all miracles signs though...?

What is the purpose of categorizing certain miracles...? What do you maybe hope to accomplish or point out by or about doing that, etc...?

Is it just that some take faith and some maybe do not, or what exactly, etc...?

God Bless!

All signs are miracles but not all miracles are signs.

You can refer to my earliest post in this thread, to understand why I make that distinction.

Why have the Sign Gifts Ended
 
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,549
1,537
44
Uruguay
✟445,478.00
Country
Uruguay
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
All signs are miracles but not all miracles are signs.

You can refer to my earliest post in this thread, to understand why I make that distinction.

Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

But for God to do signs through the apostles, the apostles needed to believe though,
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,277
5,237
45
Oregon
✟952,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
All signs are miracles but not all miracles are signs.

Actually I think that would be the other way around probably, etc, that every miracle is also a sign, but not everything that is a sign has to be a miracle, etc, like a thing, like you said, that was and/or is, or just was, going to come to pass anyway, without a miracle having to be done and/or performed, etc, like something or a thing that fulfills prophecy, or a prophecy, but is not necessarily a miracle really, but is still a sign, etc...?

You can refer to my earliest post in this thread, to understand why I make that distinction.

Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

I looked at it, and it seems to me like you are using the two words interchangeably to me, and maybe calling them mostly the same mostly to me, etc...? Or that you are pretty much at least using them pretty much interchangeably to me maybe, etc...?

Or maybe you could just tell me simply what you think is just the simple difference between a sign and/or a miracle maybe, etc...?

God Bless!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually I think that would be the other way around probably, etc, that every miracle is also a sign, but not everything that is a sign has to be a miracle, etc, like a thing, like you said, that was and/or is, or just was, going to come to pass anyway, without a miracle having to be done and/or performed, etc, like something or a thing that fulfills prophecy, or a prophecy, but is not necessarily a miracle really, but is still a sign, etc...?



I looked at it, and it seems to me like you are using the two words interchangeably to me, and maybe calling them mostly the same mostly to me, etc...? Or that you are pretty much at least using them pretty much interchangeably to me maybe, etc...?

Or maybe you could just tell me simply what you think is just the simple difference between a sign and/or a miracle maybe, etc...?

God Bless!

A sign indicate that this person is sent by God. Just as it was with Moses, it was with Jesus. The earlier post I refer you to has all the necessary scriptural references.

A miracle does not indicate that.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Neogaia777
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Do you think anyone, including the 12, believe Jesus could actually feed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 2 fishes?

No, I don't think so. Sometimes God heals people without faith, sometimes he expects faith. There are examples of both in the Bible. God does it the way He chooses, that is why it's grace.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, I don't think so. Sometimes God heals people without faith, sometimes he expects faith. There are examples of both in the Bible. God does it the way He chooses, that is why it's grace.

But you do agree with my 2 points right?
  1. The Messiah was promised to Israel and prophecy stated that he will perform many signs and wonders to prove his identity (Luke 7:20-23)
  2. When Jesus appeared, he performed all the necessary signs to testify to the nation Israel (John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4)
There are certain signs that are prophesied as will happen.

Just as in Revelation 11, the 2 witnesses are prophesied to do these

5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

These will happen THEN, but no one will be able to do these NOW, no matter what level of faith they have
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
But you do agree with my 2 points right?
  1. The Messiah was promised to Israel and prophecy stated that he will perform many signs and wonders to prove his identity (Luke 7:20-23)
  2. When Jesus appeared, he performed all the necessary signs to testify to the nation Israel (John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4)
There are certain signs that are prophesied as will happen.

Just as in Revelation 11, the 2 witnesses are prophesied to do these

5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

These will happen THEN, but no one will be able to do these NOW, no matter what level of faith they have

I can agree with the two points.

Revelation is not very easy to understand. Seems like no one agrees with everything in that book, much symbols and metaphors.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Guojing
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
These verses were written for Christians down through the ages.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Those gifts were NOT forbidden by those who were alive at the time. In fact, they have not been forbidden in the centuries since, either.

I know that some charismatics like to talk as though somebody is prohibiting them from practicing their religious beliefs...but no one does.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Major1
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Maybe you think the gift of healing means always be able to heal, like Jesus did. That's not my view. I believe the Holy Spirit speaks to the gifted Christian when a healing is to take place.

Acts 14:3
Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

By "THEIR HANDS" were the Apostles who had all of the Sign Gifts.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Those gifts were NOT forbidden by those who were alive at the time. In fact, they have not been forbidden in the centuries since, either.

I know that some charismatics like to talk as though somebody is prohibiting them from practicing their religious beliefs...but no one does.

What is really.....interesting and actually funny. The 14th chapter of 1 Corth., in fact 12-14 are all e "Corrective" chapters about what is to not be done in church with the focus on "TONGUES".

Now that being said and anyone can read those Scriptures and verify my comment, notice chapter 14:34............
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

Now we know that women spoke in the church so Paul is saying that Women are not to speak in TONGUES in church".

If women were not allowed to speak in TONGUES in church there would in fact be no tongues movement at all!!!

Thoughts?????
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I can agree with the two points.

Revelation is not very easy to understand. Seems like no one agrees with everything in that book, much symbols and metaphors.

That is because an understanding of Daniel is required for one thing.
 
Upvote 0