So about those books ..

Marc Perry · Dec 2, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Since God is Love
and
Love keeps no record of wrongs ..

The books being opened up on judgment day are the hearts of the humans being judged according to the way they judge others.

Predestination, anyone? This flies right into the face of that topic.

fhansen · Dec 2, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Does that mean that God's love is universal, or does it mean that God's love is eternal, or does it mean that God's love is omnipotent? The three are mutually exclusive if anyone, even Satan, goes to Hell. We know that Satan will go to Hell, so one of the three must be incorrect.

"God is love," is a poetic statement, which means that there is no denotative meaning. We can't use it to definitively make a logical argument.

Similarly, we might argue:

God is love.
Love is blind.
Therefore God is blind.

Both arguments are poetic, and the conclusion is therefore irrational.

God keeps a record of wrongs. Otherwise he could not judge anyone for anything. If anyone is judged, and if love keeps no record of wrongs, then we cannot assume that God loves everyone.

By analogy:

Dinner is food.
...but my dinner is not your food.

Revelation 21:27
"But there shall by no means enter it [Heaven] anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

It has nothing to do with the way we judge others. Well, not as much as you imply.

Love doesn’t preclude anyone going to hell. Love doesn’t preclude justice. In fact, it demands it.

fhansen · Dec 2, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Since God is Love
and
Love keeps no record of wrongs ..

The books being opened up on judgment day are the hearts of the humans being judged according to the way they judge others.

Love accepts all and forgives all, forgetting offenses. But the purpose is for the offender to have a change of heart, for them to love too. Those who adamantly reject love and choose hate ultimately deny themselves access to Gods love.

Neostarwcc · Dec 2, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Since God is Love
and
Love keeps no record of wrongs ..

The books being opened up on judgment day are the hearts of the humans being judged according to the way they judge others.

You mean aside from the Book of Life and the book that David talked about that has every single forordained moment of every single humans life written in it?

On Judgement Day we will ALL be judged by those two books. Both Christian and non Christian.

Noxot · Dec 2, 2020

fhansen said:
Love accepts all and forgives all, forgetting offenses. But the purpose is for the offender to have a change of heart, for them to love too. Those who adamantly reject love and choose hate ultimately deny themselves access to Gods love.

I'm of the opinion that after a while of watching people roast in hell that God will get sick of it and give up on the game he was playing with them and reveal himself to them in a way that will instantly make them turn to him.

they will have to wait some other time to fully complete this process that they are trying to do. it was of course not a complete loss because many of those came willingly when they're blind to go to him. it will always and forever be a sweet moment that the lord had with his children.

Noxot · Dec 2, 2020

I have absolute certainty as to the character and nature of God. Secondary knowledge is very far away from me. I can come up with simple and easy solutions because I have a Unity with God. imagine an infinite mind and how many possibilities and ways he has of doing things correctly and justly. Human beings tend to think so little of God and of themselves. They have so little faith, and I'm overflowing with it. My only purpose in this world was to comprehend God and I did it.

fhansen · Dec 2, 2020

Noxot said:
I'm of the opinion that after a while of watching people roast in hell that God will get sick of it and give up on the game he was playing with them and reveal himself to them in a way that will instantly make them turn to him.

they will have to wait some other time to fully complete this process that they are trying to do. it was of course not a complete loss because many of those came willingly when they're blind to go to him. it will always and forever be a sweet moment that the lord had with his children.

I’d hope that’s true. Either way God desires none to be lost and continues to love all of a His creation as I see it. But either way He won’t endure evil forever, or allow it to prevail or coexist with good. That wouldn’t be love.

Noxot · Dec 2, 2020

Evil simply cannot endure God. It would be like me being at the bottom of the ocean and trying to move it all out of my way. I'm crushed and helpless before it.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 2, 2020

Marc Perry said:
Predestination, anyone? This flies right into the face of that topic.

The modern concept of predestination tends to be laced with the concept of worshiping the pagan gods known as the fates.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 2, 2020

fhansen said:
Love accepts all and forgives all, forgetting offenses. But the purpose is for the offender to have a change of heart, for them to love too. Those who adamantly reject love and choose hate ultimately deny themselves access to Gods love.

So in the end reality where Love is in all and is all, this is hell for those closed off to that reality.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 2, 2020

Neostarwcc said:
You mean aside from the Book of Life and the book that David talked about that has every single forordained moment of every single humans life written in it?

On Judgement Day we will ALL be judged by those two books. Both Christian and non Christian.

God also says He will judge every man according to their works. This is important because it is written in proverbs that a man will be filled with his works.

So as another scripture says, He will judge not according to what He sees or hears, "but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked."

So if God will not judge according to what He sees or hears, then the criteria is based on what is within us already.

The "books" being opened up are people's hearts.

The book of the lamb is the heart of Jesus.

If you are in Christ, then your works will be judged accordingly. If you are not in Christ, your works will be judged accordingly - your heart records it all and God opens it up on that day like a black box.

fhansen · Dec 2, 2020

Michael Collum said:
So in the end reality where Love is in all and is all, this is hell for those closed off to that reality.

Hell is the total absence of God. They choose that state. The ultimate act of pride, to adamantly prefer self over God.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 2, 2020

fhansen said:
Hell is the total absence of God. They choose that state. The ultimate act of pride, to adamantly prefer self over God.

Curious theology in light of Psalms 139 and Luke 19:27.

It's called a second death, quite curious indeed.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 2, 2020

Michael Collum said:
I'd disagree since sin was not removed from creation, obviously.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What is it about cleanse us from all unrighteousness that doesn't sound like separating us from our sin?

There are two ways to purify of sin:

1) Remove the sinner from the sin.
2) Remove the sinner and the sin.

section9+1 · Dec 2, 2020

Hosea 13:12
God's love isn't a blanket that covers everything. He has many other definitions. His name is Jealous, he is a consuming fire, he is just, etc..
We can reconcile and forgive, but we have to remember. We can never forget what things have happened to us. If a babysitter does great harm to your kids, you can forgive that, but you are criminally insane if you ever let him babysit again. We have to keep a record. And God's love and forgiveness is selective. No repentance, no forgiveness. The recorded wrongs stands.
I love apples. But I do not love every last apple.. Still if you asked me, I would say I love apples and would be telling the truth.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 2, 2020

disciple Clint said:
God sends no one to hell....

Hell didn't make itself. No, man, if people fall into that pit, then there was one who dug it. The Bible is full of stories about God judging the wicked. It is God's reaction to our action.

mlepfitjw · Dec 2, 2020

Noxot said:
I have absolute certainty as to the character and nature of God. Secondary knowledge is very far away from me. I can come up with simple and easy solutions because I have a Unity with God. imagine an infinite mind and how many possibilities and ways he has of doing things correctly and justly. Human beings tend to think so little of God and of themselves. They have so little faith, and I'm overflowing with it. My only purpose in this world was to comprehend God and I did it.

???

zoidar · Dec 2, 2020

fhansen said:
Love accepts all and forgives all, forgetting offenses. But the purpose is for the offender to have a change of heart, for them to love too. Those who adamantly reject love and choose hate ultimately deny themselves access to Gods love.

I was just about to press "agree" and then I thought about it a little. Wouldn't it be more correct to say: "Those who adamantly reject love and choose hate of what is good ultimately deny themselves access to Gods love.

fhansen · Dec 2, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Hell didn't make itself. No, man, if people fall into that pit, then there was one who dug it. The Bible is full of stories about God judging the wicked. It is God's reaction to our action.

But the judgment is self-earned. And hell is a state of being absent of God, which is what the offender opted for. No one needs to dig a pit. We only need to have people who ultimately reject goodness and choose evil. And then we have hell, wherever they are.

fhansen · Dec 2, 2020

zoidar said:
I was just about to press "agree" and then I thought about it a little. Wouldn't it be more correct to say: "Those who adamantly reject love and choose hate of what is good ultimately deny themselves access to Gods love.

That’s probably better. Hatred of evil is a good thing.

So about those books ..

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