How do We Know if We are In Him?

HARK! said:

Beloved, I am not writing a new precept to you, but an old precept, which you had from the beginning. The old precept is the word which you hear.

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Are we saved by how we live, by our works, deeds etc or through faith in the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus?

Versus 22-24 puts it much more simple.

HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:1
My little children, these things am I writing to you that you may not be sinning. And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just.

How many Pastors have you heard open up their sermons with this verse?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:2
And He is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our sins, yet not concerned with ours only, but concerned with the whole world also.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:3
And in this we know that we know Him, if we should be keeping His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 1Jn 2:6
he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:7
Beloved, I am not writing a new precept to you, but an old precept, which you had from the beginning. The old precept is the word which you hear.

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Matthew 5:48- "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

But seriously though, we are to always be doing our best to perfectly follow the rules and laws of Love, even perfectly if we can, etc, just not in our own strength, etc...

But the letter of the law, or the letter of any set of rules or laws, always fails to fully express all the rules and laws of Love perfectly though...

Cause the standard is even much more higher than mere words can express, etc, and also the letter fails to teach you also "discernment in your morality" also, etc, and/or also fails when maybe some minor exceptions, according to conscience, etc, should be the rule and or laws of Love for that specific situation and circumstance, etc, which the letter fails to do, etc, and even if it did, or even if it ever tried, etc, the whole entire world, or universe, could not even contain all the words that would have to fully written, or written down in detail in order for it to do so perfectly, etc...

God Bless!

Tolworth John said:

Are we saved by how we live, by our works, deeds etc or through faith in the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus?

Versus 22-24 puts it much more simple.

Click to expand...

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell works of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to have a relationship with Christ, which means that obedience to the law is a salvation issue even though we do not earn our salvation by our obedience. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which God has given laws to instruct how to do, so God's graciously teaching us to obey His laws is itself the content of being saved. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law looks like. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it looks like to have faith in the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus (Acts 21:20).

Soyeong said:

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell works of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to have a relationship with Christ, which means that obedience to the law is a salvation issue even though we do not earn our salvation by our obedience. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which God has given laws to instruct how to do, so God's graciously teaching us to obey His laws is itself the content of being saved. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law looks like. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it looks like to have faith in the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus (Acts 21:20).

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Actually no take a closer look at Matthew 7:21-23. He says that those that do the will of the Father would enter the kingdom of heaven. What does Jesus say the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40? That's right he says that the will of the Father is the none of who the Father gives to Jesus is lost. Nobody can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them to him and none of those are lost.

The unsaved people in Matthew 7:23 are those who are not children of God. They're not written in the lambs book of life ...etc. The ones who are written in the lambs book of life are eternally secure and would not deny a basic teaching like the OP states, see Revelation 3:5, 20:15 and 21:27 also Matthew 25:31-46.

We are not saved BY our works our salvation is 100% a gift from God that is not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8-9). But we are saved by a faith THAT works (James 2:24).

HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:1
My little children, these things am I writing to you that you may not be sinning. And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just.

How many Pastors have you heard open up their sermons with this verse?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:2
And He is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our sins, yet not concerned with ours only, but concerned with the whole world also.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:3
And in this we know that we know Him, if we should be keeping His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 1Jn 2:6
he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:7
Beloved, I am not writing a new precept to you, but an old precept, which you had from the beginning. The old precept is the word which you hear.

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If you use 1 John as salvation doctrine, you will end up living under the Law.

Its expected, John was preaching to the circumcised, as James and Peter did too (Galatians 2:9)

Tolworth John said:

Are we saved by how we live, by our works, deeds etc or through faith in the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus?

Versus 22-24 puts it much more simple.

Click to expand...

Rom 8:12-13 is pretty simple.
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.“

That’s a simple goal of the life of grace Jesus won for us, made possible as we come to believe in Him, as we enter communion with God by faith IOW, and then remain in Him.

Neostarwcc said:

Actually no take a closer look at Matthew 7:21-23. He says that those that do the will of the Father would enter the kingdom of heaven. What does Jesus say the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40? That's right he says that the will of the Father is the none of who the Father gives to Jesus is lost. Nobody can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them to him and none of those are lost.

The unsaved people in Matthew 7:23 are those who are not children of God. They're not written in the lambs book of life ...etc. The ones who are written in the lambs book of life are eternally secure and would not deny a basic teaching like the OP states, see Revelation 3:5, 20:15 and 21:27 also Matthew 25:31-46.

We are not saved BY our works our salvation is 100% a gift from God that is not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8-9). But we are saved by a faith THAT works (James 2:24).

Click to expand...

The Father has straightforwardly made His will known through His law (Psalms 40:8), so Jesus was making parallel statements in Matthew 7:21-23 by comparing those who don't do the Father's will with those that he never knew because they were workers of lawlessness. In 1 John 2:4-6, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them, and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. Likewise, in John 3:4-10, sin is the the transgression of God's law, those who continue to practice sin in disobedience to God's law have neither seen nor known him, and those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God. In Romans 6:23, the gift of God is eternal life, in John 6:40, those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter is eternal life is by obeying the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is itself the content of the 100% gift of God and what it looks like to believe in Jesus and to know him, and being drawn in a relationship with Jesus/knowing him is a salvation issue.

Soyeong said:

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell works of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to have a relationship with Christ, which means that obedience to the law is a salvation issue even though we do not earn our salvation by our obedience. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which God has given laws to instruct how to do, so God's graciously teaching us to obey His laws is itself the content of being saved. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law looks like. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it looks like to have faith in the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus (Acts 21:20).

Click to expand...

Some, probably many, probably very very many maybe, are still all going to still be saved regardless of their living or not living up to the law perfectly or not, etc, note when I say "law", I make little to no distinction in this case between the Spirit or the letter of it as far as the moral law is concerned, etc, even though I think the standards of the Spirit of it/them (the law, etc) is even very much more higher, etc, or is even a way very much more higher standard, etc...

You are correct that is a work of God's grace and God's grace alone that causes us to live up to any kind of standard or rules of law, and you are very correct there, etc, but saying meeting up to the high standard perfectly is always a salvation issue for all always, and in all cases at all times, etc, is just false, sorry...

Cause it is not always, etc, some are more or less able than others, according to how God has given each one ability, or inability, etc, but my point is only God knows that, etc, each one's own unique abilities or inabilities, etc, so we cannot say that living up to the very high standards of "the Law" is salvation issue for any and all, all of the time perfectly, etc...

God will judge each one according to his or her own either, ability or inabilities, and/or each ones own personal responsibility or not responsibility also, etc, amounting to "accountability", etc, which only He knows, etc...

The only bearing I think it will have for most, among believers anyway, is just maybe a reflection of maybe "maturity" maybe, and ones own place maybe in the "rank" of or in Heaven maybe there, etc, but before you think you will be one who is called "great" there, etc, and getting all puffed up about it, etc, just also remember that anyone who is "great" there, is also the "greatest servant of all" there also, etc, and if that is not already in his or her own spirit/person, etc, as a part of the maturity that is already there, or is already supposed to be there, etc, then I don't know so much about your truly being called great there, etc, not that you should even call or even ever refer to yourself as "great" there, even if you ever are or were "great" there, or are or were or ever did ever truly become "great" there, etc...

There are going to a lot, a lot, of "babes" in Heaven that will require a lot teachers to be the greatest servants of them there, etc...

Somebody has to change their diapers there, lol...

Anyway, I think the Law is only a reflection of one's own personal maturity in the way and things of God, etc, but "that" was only given to each one "by God", "by God", and not "us", etc, according or not according to, each one's own, and how He gave one each ability, or else inability, etc...

That only God knows, and will judge accordingly, etc...

And/or give, or hand out positions to accordingly, etc...

God Bless!

HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:7
Beloved, I am not writing a new precept to you, but an old precept, which you had from the beginning. The old precept is the word which you hear.

Click to expand...

The word that I heard from the beginning was the Gospel and the teachings of Jesus.
Not the law.

"his precepts are not heavy"
Doing the law is so heavy nobody could do it though at least on their own.

Regardless of how anyone either lives or else does not live up to any kinds of rules of laws and/or standards, etc, it is only by God's grace, and God's grace alone, that they either do, or else do not, obey or disobey, etc, or that he or she is made to either stand, or else fall (in the judgement), at all, etc...

So that no one, regardless of his or her own performance, or lack thereof, cannot never ever boast about anything, or any of it ever at all, etc...

Neither can or should they ever rejoice over the fall or else downfall of any of the others either or else at all, etc...

They are both shut up in the judgement, if you truly know what's good for you ever at all, etc...

God Bless!

HARK! said:

I agree. There is no law in scripture, to my knowledge, which specifically prohibits me from taking my car and doing doughnuts on my neighbor's lawn; but this is not an act of love. This would not be the example that Messiah demonstrated for us.

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When a lawyer and expert of the law asked Jesus what the most important commandment is, Jesus responded, "To love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind...The second is to love your neighbor as yourself." The Greatest Commandment - Bible Story

HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:1
My little children, these things am I writing to you that you may not be sinning. And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just.

How many Pastors have you heard open up their sermons with this verse?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:2
And He is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our sins, yet not concerned with ours only, but concerned with the whole world also.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:3
And in this we know that we know Him, if we should be keeping His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 1Jn 2:6
he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:7
Beloved, I am not writing a new precept to you, but an old precept, which you had from the beginning. The old precept is the word which you hear.

Click to expand...

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” Romans 8:16 (KJV 1900)

HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:1
My little children, these things am I writing to you that you may not be sinning. And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just.

How many Pastors have you heard open up their sermons with this verse?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:2
And He is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our sins, yet not concerned with ours only, but concerned with the whole world also.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:3
And in this we know that we know Him, if we should be keeping His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 1Jn 2:6
he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:7
Beloved, I am not writing a new precept to you, but an old precept, which you had from the beginning. The old precept is the word which you hear.

Click to expand...

Ecclesiastes 12:13

Berean Study Bible
When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear (give reverence to) God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man.

John 15
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

NKJV 1Jn 2:5
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

1 Johh 5 : 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

He is in us.