Do you think everyone gets the same chance to be saved or people can get better chances ?

mikeforjesus said:

it seems if you repent now and obey God you can save yourself and those who are willing to hear you so you give them a better chance. Or can we be sure everyone before had the same chance to be saved though they had every chance to be saved to hear moses and the prophets the way to life is narrow and difficult the church won’t lead you astray and all people are responsible for themselves to follow Jesus but there are soul winners who awaken those who are not following unless everyone had them and it was people choice whether to give heed or not or search them out for their own salvation some did not believe protestants but they believed their church and they gave heed to follow them in everything they did not think contradicts the word of God they never knew they were not following the prophets but they earnestly tried to follow Christ to be saved according to the light they were exposed to. People who have more light have to follow that


I believe people can not enter the kingdom straight away unless they receive the kingdom of God as a little child if they are moved to accept all but they can still be saved if they did not know they have to accept all but they won’t enter the kingdom upon death as long as they follow everything that seems right according to their church fathers

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Consider the parable of the "Laborers in the Vineyard" . Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it clear it does not matter at what point in one's life they come to know Him. Be blessed.

Laborers in the Vineyard - Matthew 20:1-16

• “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
  “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went.
  “He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
  “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
  “He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
  “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
  “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
  “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
  “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Albion said:

I like it.

The point that is often confused is that Faith saves...and it produces works. In fact, as people of Faith, we will want to do good works for the reason that our Lord showed us the way. You made that point yourself.

But it's not that Faith AND the good works together are the formula that earns us salvation. Unfortunately, the Catholic churches and also some Protestant ones teach that we are saved by the both of them together, each contributing to our chances.

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Where do we see evidence that faith produces works in the scriptures?

mikeforjesus said:

I know you try to help but I believe the bible teaches only those who repent and change have a part in heaven.

Others as mentioned in proverbs those who reject wisdom will seek Him diligently and not find Him

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Either a person is born again or they are not. If they are born again, they have eternal life. If that life can die, then it is not eternal. "He who has the Son, has the Life". Those who are born again are in heaven spiritually already, seated together with Christ.

There was a believer at Corinth indulging in sexual sin that even the unbelievers found unacceptable. Paul told the Corinthians to excommunicate him. Was that believer then consigned to hell? The man repented and was restored. Was he then born again again? Eternal life cannot die so neither can anyone be unborn again.

mikeforjesus said:

it seems if you repent now and obey God you can save yourself and those who are willing to hear you so you give them a better chance. Or can we be sure everyone before had the same chance to be saved though they had every chance to be saved to hear moses and the prophets the way to life is narrow and difficult the church won’t lead you astray and all people are responsible for themselves to follow Jesus but there are soul winners who awaken those who are not following unless everyone had them and it was people choice whether to give heed or not or search them out for their own salvation some did not believe protestants but they believed their church and they gave heed to follow them in everything they did not think contradicts the word of God they never knew they were not following the prophets but they earnestly tried to follow Christ to be saved according to the light they were exposed to. People who have more light have to follow that


I believe people can not enter the kingdom straight away unless they receive the kingdom of God as a little child if they are moved to accept all but they can still be saved if they did not know they have to accept all but they won’t enter the kingdom upon death as long as they follow everything that seems right according to their church fathers

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In my opinion, due to what the Bible suggest all people have had their sins paid for, all are equally given chances through out life to look towards God. Though there will be people out here who do not want anything to do with God.

All people have been totally reconciled universally because of what Yeshua Christ did on the cross, dying for the sins of all people.

Not everyone is saved to the kingdom of God though because of this reason.

What is the reason? No faith, no belief, no desire for God.

The Bible makes it clear where people of no faith go it’s outside the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem. And those who are saved to the kingdom go into the city gates onwards into the city.


The only other interesting thing is that the gates are never said to be shut, to shut the outsiders out completely.


What any of this looks like I have no true idea, but the Bible says it explicitly in the very last chapter of revelation.

May you be blessed and have your eyes open, God bless, you and your families, who catch this message.

the commands we are to follow are God's leading through His Holy Spirit inside of us; these commands always agree with His revealed written Word (the Bible). as we follow His leading all through the day, we will automatically produce the works and fruits - if we strive to produce works and fruits based on the Bible alone, we introduce error due to our inability to be aware of and apply all of those written commands in harmony in any given situation we face

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(Rom 8:7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Rom 8:8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
(Rom 8:10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Rom 8:11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(Rom 8:12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(Rom 8:13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(Rom 8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
(Rom 8:16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
(Rom 8:17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

mikeforjesus said:

it seems if you repent now and obey God you can save yourself and those who are willing to hear you so you give them a better chance. Or can we be sure everyone before had the same chance to be saved though they had every chance to be saved to hear moses and the prophets the way to life is narrow and difficult the church won’t lead you astray and all people are responsible for themselves to follow Jesus but there are soul winners who awaken those who are not following unless everyone had them and it was people choice whether to give heed or not or search them out for their own salvation some did not believe protestants but they believed their church and they gave heed to follow them in everything they did not think contradicts the word of God they never knew they were not following the prophets but they earnestly tried to follow Christ to be saved according to the light they were exposed to. People who have more light have to follow that


I believe people can not enter the kingdom straight away unless they receive the kingdom of God as a little child if they are moved to love people in simplicity and not according to how another own interpretation of the bible they can not know is false they can still be saved if they did not know they have to accept all but they won’t enter the kingdom upon death as long as they follow everything that seems right according to their church fathers. Some church fathers do teach to show love love to others they don't agree with so it is who they choose to trust

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Do all get a chance to save themselves? No, Christ died only for the Church.

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)

“Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” Acts 2:47 (KJV 1900)

mikeforjesus said:

The bible says if you are without chastening you are not sons. The goal is to make them repent. If they do not they can not be saved

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So if a born again Christian sins moments before he dies, he goes to hell?

Dave L said:

Do all get a chance to save themselves? No, Christ died only for the Church.

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)

“Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” Acts 2:47 (KJV 1900)

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"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." Hebrews 2:9
There is a full stop after "everyone".

Aussie Pete said:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." Hebrews 2:9
There is a full stop after "everyone".

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But, he told the Pharisees the reason they did not believe was that he did not give his life for them. You need to place this constraint on your interpretation. Also, the passages saying he died for many, place a constraint on the universal sounding passages. Do you think God only made it possible for you to save yourself?

Dave L said:

But, he told the Pharisees the reason they did not believe was that he did not give his life for them. You need to place this constraint on your interpretation. Also, the passages saying he died for many, place a constraint on the universal sounding passages. Do you think God only made it possible for you to save yourself?

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No one saves themselves. If we could, Lord Jesus died for nothing.

I am not a universalist. However, many places in the Bible declare that Jesus died for all mankind. Not all accept God's gift, that is obvious.

Aussie Pete said:

No one saves themselves. If we could, Lord Jesus died for nothing.

I am not a universalist. However, many places in the Bible declare that Jesus died for all mankind. Not all accept God's gift, that is obvious.

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He died only for those he saves. Why not pray for all instead of only those the Father gave to him? If he died for all too. It makes you your own savior and in effect says Christ saves nobody.

mikeforjesus said:

it seems if you repent now and obey God you can save yourself and those who are willing to hear you so you give them a better chance. Or can we be sure everyone before had the same chance to be saved though they had every chance to be saved to hear moses and the prophets the way to life is narrow and difficult the church won’t lead you astray and all people are responsible for themselves to follow Jesus but there are soul winners who awaken those who are not following unless everyone had them and it was people choice whether to give heed or not or search them out for their own salvation some did not believe protestants but they believed their church and they gave heed to follow them in everything they did not think contradicts the word of God they never knew they were not following the prophets but they earnestly tried to follow Christ to be saved according to the light they were exposed to. People who have more light have to follow that


I believe people can not enter the kingdom straight away unless they receive the kingdom of God as a little child if they are moved to love people in simplicity and not according to how another own interpretation of the bible they can not know is false they can still be saved if they did not know they have to accept all but they won’t enter the kingdom upon death as long as they follow everything that seems right according to their church fathers. Some church fathers do teach to show love love to others they don't agree with so it is who they choose to trust

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Rom.9 Verses 18 to 24

1. 
   
   [18] Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
   [19] Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
   [20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
   [21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
   [22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
   [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
   [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

mikeforjesus said:

it seems if you repent now and obey God you can save yourself and those who are willing to hear you so you give them a better chance. Or can we be sure everyone before had the same chance to be saved though they had every chance to be saved to hear moses and the prophets the way to life is narrow and difficult the church won’t lead you astray and all people are responsible for themselves to follow Jesus but there are soul winners who awaken those who are not following unless everyone had them and it was people choice whether to give heed or not or search them out for their own salvation some did not believe protestants but they believed their church and they gave heed to follow them in everything they did not think contradicts the word of God they never knew they were not following the prophets but they earnestly tried to follow Christ to be saved according to the light they were exposed to. People who have more light have to follow that


I believe people can not enter the kingdom straight away unless they receive the kingdom of God as a little child if they are moved to love people in simplicity and not according to how another own interpretation of the bible they can not know is false they can still be saved if they did not know they have to accept all but they won’t enter the kingdom upon death as long as they follow everything that seems right according to their church fathers. Some church fathers do teach to show love love to others they don't agree with so it is who they choose to trust

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Every person who would believe is given the opportunity.
And no u don't have to "follow" Bible because there were people getting saved before Bible was even written ( our NT) ...
And you believe wrong , if person on death bed is given the gospel and believes he/she will enter the kingdom of God . As a little Child only? That would mean all the apostles would not enter Kingdom of God , where u get these strange ideas from lol

mikeforjesus said:

Thankyou for your desire to help but I believe we know those outside can not enter as proverbs says if people reject wisdom they will seek Him diligently and not find Him and as bible says those in hell can not hope for your truth as Jesus says people will gnash their teeth when they see all the prophets in kingdom of God and themselves thrust out. Gates not being shut means they do not need to protect against criminals and others who can not enter without having repented who will therefore cause a lie that God does not love righteousness their sin is not taken away to enter the kingdom for others to know sin in that place not that others will enter but they can go to other places I suppose people do not only live in heavenly Jerusalem but they each dwell in their habitations outside as Jesus said in My Fathers house are many mansions

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They dwell in their habitations, mike. Yes I agree, though ... with God all things shall be possible, so I wonder if God unending mercy and grace can still be seen and reached if one so desired so. However it might be impossible, and that would be rather unfortunate. Always clinging for the hope of reconciliation.

thank you for the dialogue and most assuredly your peace and kindness through the spirit friend have a good day

BNR32FAN said:

Where do we see evidence that faith produces works in the scriptures?

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I would offer. We can see that from the opening statement "Genesis1"

Genesis1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

The plan of faith "Let there be light:" the will or power to do. . "and there was light". The substance of faith what was hoped for.

The same kind of spirit of faith as it is written that works in us to both will and empower us perform his good pleasure.

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak

The mutual faith of Christ that works in new creatures, Christians.

We should work with him without murmuring, following the example of the Son of man as a lamp unto our feet. Jesus who delighted in doing the will of the Father.

The greatest love or miracle of all , our first love experiencing the first work of God giving us ears to hear his understanding.The same love we return to when we do sin if we harden our hearts.

Philippians 2 :13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Murmurings just makes the work harder for those who resist the power that works in us as sons of God(Christians) . It would seem to show when angry with God our first reaction is to look for fault in people as if all have not sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God.

In that way we should be careful of entertaining strangers they could be sons of God and God or Holy Father could have a gift for both as He faithfully works His spirit of faith in them with them . Being yoked in the end of the matter makes that labor lighter.

Jonah 4:1-4 King James Version (KJV) But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live. Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?

Those in Nineveh the great city rejoiced in hearing the gospel. Jonah was jealous espousing that literal earthly Jerusalem was the great city prepared as the bride.

The book of Jonas would to me a lesson in so much that all the kingdoms as cities of the world will becomes the kingdoms of God. In the new order no longer under the Sun. (Revelation 11:15)

The rightful owner Jesus our savior is husband of the bride the church. She was given a new name by the Father in Acts. . . Christian. A word (demonym) without any other meaning "residents of the city of Christ named after her founder and husband is Christ" .A befitting name for the bride of all nations .

BNR32FAN said:

Notice if I have all faith so as to move mountains. To me that suggests that faith alone is not enough for salvation. Then the giving of all possessions to feed the poor (good works) without love still not enough for salvation.

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I understand where you are coming from, but what this gets us back to is that point which usually is the big stumbling block in this debate--if one has Faith can he then not become a person who wants to do good, and does so--just as his Lord instructed? No. It is impossible.