Abomination of Desolation in Luke?

grafted branch

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Where are you getting the idea that Paul was saying that was already fulfilled at the time? I'm confused by what you're saying here. Please explain.

I was trying to say I don’t think “the fullness of the Gentiles” came in before Romans was written.

When you posted this
You mentioned Romans 11:25. I suppose it's possible that the times of the Gentiles will end when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, if that's what you were implying. There could be a connection there, though the context of Luke 21:20-24 is not really the same as Romans 11.

You were correct that I was implying the end of “the times of the Gentiles” happens when “the fullness of the Gentiles” comes in. When you said “there could be a connection” I got the impression that you thought it was possible but not your view.

As I see it there are 3 possibilities for when “the fullness of the Gentiles” comes in

  1. When the Gentiles are included into the body of believers.

  2. At the end of 70 A.D. (the gospel now only goes to Gentiles)

  3. At the end of "the times of the Gentiles".
I’m not sure what your view is on this so I was just trying to give my reasoning for my view which is #3. If you see another possibility let me know.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I was trying to say I don’t think “the fullness of the Gentiles” came in before Romans was written.

When you posted this


You were correct that I was implying the end of “the times of the Gentiles” happens when “the fullness of the Gentiles” comes in. When you said “there could be a connection” I got the impression that you thought it was possible but not your view.

As I see it there are 3 possibilities for when “the fullness of the Gentiles” comes in

  1. When the Gentiles are included into the body of believers.

  2. At the end of 70 A.D. (the gospel now only goes to Gentiles)

  3. At the end of "the times of the Gentiles".
I’m not sure what your view is on this so I was just trying to give my reasoning for my view which is #3. If you see another possibility let me know.
What do you mean by that exactly, though?

My view would be that the times of the Gentiles will end at the same time when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in which will be at the time when Christ returns. Is this what you're saying as well?
 
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grafted branch

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What do you mean by that exactly, though?

Prior to the Holy Spirit coming on the Gentiles, they could only be saved by assimilating into and becoming a Jew. Nineveh would be the obvious exception and whether this is an exception or not is debatable. So that being said there is the view that the fullness of the Gentiles was realized when they no long had to be Jewish and the Holy Spirit came upon them. Or put another way “the fullness of the Gentiles” came in when Gentiles could be part of the body of believers without being a Jew.

I don’t think this view is correct because the book of Romans was written long after the Holy Spirit came on the Gentiles.
I misunderstood your previous post and didn’t realize that we both agree on the fullness occurring at the end of the times of the Gentiles.
 
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Davy

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Because the Holy Spirit instructed Luke to identify the abomination, the Roman armies.



There is no "different context". They're called "synoptic gospels" for a reason.



There is no relationship between the events of Daniel 11 and Matthew 24. The former was fulfilled in the abominations of the Antiochus line.



There is no relationship between the events of Daniel 11 and 2 Thessalonians 2. The former was fulfilled in the abominations of the Antiochus line. The latter describes someone who would arrogate spiritual authority in a "naos" spiritual temple, i.e. the Church.

The Reformers correctly ascertained his identity, which was integral to the success of the Reformation.

And yet again, the Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 versions are about the Daniel 11:31 event.

The Daniel 11:31 event is about the "vile person" ending the Jews sacrifices in Jerusalem.

The Daniel 11:31 event is also about that "vile person" instead placing an IDOL ABOMINATION inside a STANDING JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM for the end.

The Daniel 11:31 event is about SPIRITUAL DESOLATION with an IDOL inside the Jewish temple.


The Luke 21 "desolation" is about the DESTRUCTION OF A JEWISH TEMPLE, a final one to be built for the last days, as the coming Antichrist = that "vile person" of Daniel 11.

The Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" is the day of God's Wrath when He will pour His Wrath out on the last day of this world in our near future, when Jesus returns. THAT... is the time of that "desolation" of the Antichrist's armies in Jerusalem when they try to destroy God's Israel in final on that day.

The Luke 21:22 "that all things which are written may be fulfilled" is a direct pointer to ALL prophecies written for the end of this present world when Jesus returns.

The Luke 4:16-21 Scripture was Jesus declaring the start of His Ministry at His 1st coming, as prophesied in Isaiah 61:1-2.

The Isaiah 61:1 and part of verse 2 is all that Jesus read at the start of His Ministry, then He closed the Book of Isaiah and said, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Luke 4:21). He did not continue reading the last part of Isaiah 61:2...

Isa 61:1-4
61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;


2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

All those words in green Jesus read at His 1st coming in Luke 4.

All those words in red Jesus DID NOT READ AT HIS 1ST COMING. WHY?

That part in red He did not read is for Jesus' SECOND COMING IN OUR NEAR FUTURE. That... is that Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" by God.
 
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Davy

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Prior to the Holy Spirit coming on the Gentiles, they could only be saved by assimilating into and becoming a Jew. Nineveh would be the obvious exception and whether this is an exception or not is debatable. So that being said there is the view that the fullness of the Gentiles was realized when they no long had to be Jewish and the Holy Spirit came upon them. Or put another way “the fullness of the Gentiles” came in when Gentiles could be part of the body of believers without being a Jew.

I don’t think this view is correct because the book of Romans was written long after the Holy Spirit came on the Gentiles.
I misunderstood your previous post and didn’t realize that we both agree on the fullness occurring at the end of the times of the Gentiles.

No, the fullness of the Gentiles still... to this day, has not yet been fulfilled.

In Romans 11, Apostle Paul associated the fullness of the Gentiles being complete with the removal of blindness God put upon Israel in part (unbelieving Jews). That spiritual blindness has still not yet been removed today, as the majority of Jews still reject Jesus Christ as Messiah.
 
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jgr

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And yet again, the Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 versions are about the Daniel 11:31 event.

The Daniel 11:31 event is about the "vile person" ending the Jews sacrifices in Jerusalem.

The Daniel 11:31 event is also about that "vile person" instead placing an IDOL ABOMINATION inside a STANDING JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM for the end.

The Daniel 11:31 event is about SPIRITUAL DESOLATION with an IDOL inside the Jewish temple.

There is no mention of an idol in a temple in the Olivet discourse.

There is no relationship between Daniel 11 and the Olivet discourse.

The Luke 21 "desolation" is about the DESTRUCTION OF A JEWISH TEMPLE, a final one to be built for the last days, as the coming Antichrist = that "vile person" of Daniel 11.

Desolation in the Olivet discourse refers to the destruction wrought by the abomination of the Roman armies upon Jerusalem and Judaea. There is no relationship to Daniel 11.

The Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" is the day of God's Wrath when He will pour His Wrath out on the last day of this world in our near future, when Jesus returns. THAT... is the time of that "desolation" of the Antichrist's armies in Jerusalem when they try to destroy God's Israel in final on that day.

Days of vengeance refers to God's judgment and destruction visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.

The Luke 21:22 "that all things which are written may be fulfilled" is a direct pointer to ALL prophecies written for the end of this present world when Jesus returns.

All things which were written relating to God's judgment and destruction visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea; were fulfilled.

The Luke 4:16-21 Scripture was Jesus declaring the start of His Ministry at His 1st coming, as prophesied in Isaiah 61:1-2.

True.

The Isaiah 61:1 and part of verse 2 is all that Jesus read at the start of His Ministry, then He closed the Book of Isaiah and said, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Luke 4:21). He did not continue reading the last part of Isaiah 61:2...

True.

All those words in red Jesus DID NOT READ AT HIS 1ST COMING. WHY?

Because He would subsequently declare His vengeance in Luke 21:22.

That part in red He did not read is for Jesus' SECOND COMING IN OUR NEAR FUTURE. That... is that Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" by God.

His vengeance delivered in His judgment and destruction visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.
 
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Douggg

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Desolation in the Olivet discourse refers to the destruction wrought by the abomination of the Roman armies upon Jerusalem and Judaea. There is no relationship to Daniel 11.
Well you are both wrong. The abomination of desolation is something "setup".

Daniel 11:31, Antiochus set up a statue image of zeus in the temple prefiguring the end times abomination of desolation.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
 
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Douggg

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Where is "set up" found in the Olivet discourse?
Jesus referenced Daniel the prophet when he spoke about the abomination of desolation in the Olivet discourse. In the right column, in Matthew 24:15.

The three columns represent - Israel under occupancy, Israel in exile, Israel a sovereign nation again.

upload_2020-12-2_6-58-24.jpeg


You can also find it on my chart of the 7 year 70th week (in the middle part of the chart), which annotates "Daniel 12:11-12 and Matthew 24:15". My chart complies with the Ezekiel 39 infallible timeline framework for the end times. Just follow the red line critical path of events, upper left to lower right and it will take the reader right through the 7 years.


upload_2020-12-2_7-7-6.jpeg
 
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Davy

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There is mention of an idol in a temple in the Olivet discourse.

There is no relationship between Daniel 11 and the Olivet discourse.

Desolation in the Olivet discourse refers to the destruction wrought by the abomination of the Roman armies upon Jerusalem and Judaea. There is no relationship to Daniel 11.

Days of vengeance refers to God's judgment and destruction visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.

All things which were written relating to God's judgment and destruction visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea; were fulfilled.

True.

True.

Because He would subsequently declare His vengeance in Luke 21:22.

His vengeance delivered in His judgment and destruction visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.

The Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" is the time of "sudden destruction" upon the wicked on the "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night", pointing to the final day of this world.

The Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" is the day of God's Wrath when He will pour His Wrath out on the last day of this world in our near future, when Jesus returns. THAT... is the time of that "desolation" of the Antichrist's armies in Jerusalem when they try to destroy God's Israel in final on that day.

The Luke 21:22 "that all things which are written may be fulfilled" is a direct pointer to ALL prophecies written for the end of this present world when Jesus returns.

The Luke 4:16-21 Scripture was Jesus declaring the start of His Ministry at His 1st coming, as prophesied in Isaiah 61:1-2.
 
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jgr

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The Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" is the time of "sudden destruction" upon the wicked on the "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night", pointing to the final day of this world.

The Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" is the day of God's Wrath when He will pour His Wrath out on the last day of this world in our near future, when Jesus returns. THAT... is the time of that "desolation" of the Antichrist's armies in Jerusalem when they try to destroy God's Israel in final on that day.

The Luke 21:22 "that all things which are written may be fulfilled" is a direct pointer to ALL prophecies written for the end of this present world when Jesus returns.

The Luke 4:16-21 Scripture was Jesus declaring the start of His Ministry at His 1st coming, as prophesied in Isaiah 61:1-2.

There is no mention of "sudden destruction" or the "wicked" or the "day of the Lord" or a "thief in the night" or the "final day of this world" or the "day of God's wrath" or "antichrist's armies" or "God's Israel" or the "end of this present world" or "Jesus returns"...

...in Luke 21:22.

Jesus prophesies of the vengeance that will be visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.

History confirms it.
 
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Davy

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There is no mention of "sudden destruction" or the "wicked" or the "day of the Lord" or a "thief in the night" or the "final day of this world" or the "day of God's wrath" or "antichrist's armies" or "God's Israel" or the "end of this present world" or "Jesus returns"...

...in Luke 21:22.

Jesus prophesies of the vengeance that will be visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.

History confirms it.

Isa 61:1-4
61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

All those words in green Jesus read at His 1st coming in Luke 4.

All those words in red Jesus DID NOT READ AT HIS 1ST COMING. WHY?

That part in red He did not read is for Jesus' SECOND COMING IN OUR NEAR FUTURE. That... is that Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" by God.
 
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jgr

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Jesus referenced Daniel the prophet when he spoke about the abomination of desolation in the Olivet discourse. In the right column, in Matthew 24:15.

The three columns represent - Israel under occupancy, Israel in exile, Israel a sovereign nation again.

View attachment 289888

You can also find it on my chart of the 7 year 70th week (in the middle part of the chart), which annotates "Daniel 12:11-12 and Matthew 24:15". My chart complies with the Ezekiel 39 infallible timeline framework for the end times. Just follow the red line critical path of events, upper left to lower right and it will take the reader right through the 7 years.


View attachment 289889

Jesus referenced Daniel 9:26-27 in His Olivet discourse, which refers to the Roman armies, consistent with Luke 21:20.

Neither Jesus nor Luke needed to draw a chart.
 
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jgr

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Isa 61:1-4
61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

All those words in green Jesus read at His 1st coming in Luke 4.

All those words in red Jesus DID NOT READ AT HIS 1ST COMING. WHY?

That part in red He did not read is for Jesus' SECOND COMING IN OUR NEAR FUTURE. That... is that Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" by God.

Explained in post 106.
 
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Douggg

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Jesus referenced Daniel 9:26-27 in His Olivet discourse, which refers to the Roman armies, consistent with Luke 21:20.

Neither Jesus nor Luke needed to draw a chart.
Where in Matthew 24 doe Jesus begin referring to events to take place in the parable of the fig generation that will witness His Return ?

Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30. You have one generation to work with. What verse does that generation begin it's witness of event?
 
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Timtofly

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Where is "set up" found in the Olivet discourse?
It is not, that is why Jesus is not talking about 70AD as the end, or the Second Coming. 70AD was only the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem and it was not even fully disassembled. Jerusalem and the foundation are still there today.

The walls of Jerusalem were built back, even the sealed eastern gate, was built backed sealed. Daniel said it was set up, but that happened in 167BC, 237 years prior to the Temple being destroyed. That is about the amount of time the US has been a nation. Not that long.

The part of Daniel that John uses in Revelation 13, is the point that an earthly system will be in place and a FP will arise out of this system, changing religion as we know it. A FP similar to the one who set up the AoD in 167BC. People are still trying to point to a system similar to 70AD, but Jesus and John were pointing to the prophecy that was fulfilled in 167BC. NOT 70AD. The only thing that happened in 70AD was millions of Jews were slaughtered or taken as slaves. The Temple burned to the ground. Jerusalem was without walls for hundreds of years.

The rest of the OD, is about the second coming that has not happened yet. When the Lamb returns, religion will take a huge hit. Satan will have to set up a new one. This new religion will cause humans to be eternally cursed by God with the mark 666. Forever removing their names from the Lamb's book of life. This will be a very conscientious choice, not by faith in God, but the rejection of seeing God physically on the throne on earth. Even knowing that God could destroy them, they still choose to worship Satan over God.

Even God's chosen people at Mt. Sinai in the presence of God on the mountain, still built a false idol and worshipped it. How much more those who reject God, will in the near future, reject God to His face. This is what Satan and his FP will do when given the chance. They will make it easier economically to worship Satan, and reject God. God will remove everything that points to Salvation and the Atonement, even the Lamb and the 144k, and let humanity feel what worship to Satan entails. Only 2 human witnesses will have to endure this time of God removing His presence from the earth. This time it will not be a few seconds like the Cross. It will be for a fixed 42 month period.

God will allow, for 3.5 years, His Atonement to be cut off, and no longer a reality, until Christ returns on a white horse and kills the rest of humanity at the battle of Armageddon.
 
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jgr

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Where in Matthew 24 doe Jesus begin referring to events to take place in the parable of the fig generation that will witness His Return ?

Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30. You have one generation to work with. What verse does that generation begin it's witness of event?

Matthew 24:1, the generation that experienced 70 AD.
 
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Douggg

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Matthew 24:1, the generation that experienced 70 AD.
No, that 70 ad generation did not witness Jesus returning in Matthew 24:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Try again, you are limited to only one generation, who will witness the events associated with Jesus's Return.

Where in Matthew 24 doe Jesus begin referring to events to take place in the parable of the fig generation that will witness His Return ?

Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30. You have one generation to work with. What verse does that generation begin it's witness of events?
 
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