So about those books ..

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

Since God is Love
and
Love keeps no record of wrongs ..

The books being opened up on judgment day are the hearts of the humans being judged according to the way they judge others.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Since God is Love...

Does that mean that God's love is universal, or does it mean that God's love is eternal, or does it mean that God's love is omnipotent? The three are mutually exclusive if anyone, even Satan, goes to Hell. We know that Satan will go to Hell, so one of the three must be incorrect.

"God is love," is a poetic statement, which means that there is no denotative meaning. We can't use it to definitively make a logical argument.

Similarly, we might argue:

God is love.
Love is blind.
Therefore God is blind.

Both arguments are poetic, and the conclusion is therefore irrational.

Love keeps no record of wrongs ..

God keeps a record of wrongs. Otherwise he could not judge anyone for anything. If anyone is judged, and if love keeps no record of wrongs, then we cannot assume that God loves everyone.

By analogy:

Dinner is food.
...but my dinner is not your food.

The books being opened up on judgment day are the hearts of the humans being judged according to the way they judge others.

Revelation 21:27
"But there shall by no means enter it [Heaven] anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

It has nothing to do with the way we judge others. Well, not as much as you imply.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Does that mean that God's love is universal, or does it mean that God's love is eternal, or does it mean that God's love is omnipotent? The three are mutually exclusive if anyone, even Satan, goes to Hell. We know that Satan will go to Hell, so one of the three must be incorrect.

"God is love," is a poetic statement, which means that there is no denotative meaning. We can't use it to definitively make a logical argument.

Similarly, we might argue:

God is love.
Love is blind.
Therefore God is blind.

Both arguments are poetic, and the conclusion is therefore irrational.

God keeps a record of wrongs. Otherwise he could not judge anyone for anything. If anyone is judged, and if love keeps no record of wrongs, then we cannot assume that God loves everyone.

By analogy:

Dinner is food.
...but my dinner is not your food.

Revelation 21:27
"But there shall by no means enter it [Heaven] anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

It has nothing to do with the way we judge others.

God is Love is what the bible says.

The bible says what love is.

This describes the character of God, go and do likewise.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Revelation 21:27
"But there shall by no means enter it [Heaven] anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

It has nothing to do with the way we judge others. Well, not as much as you imply.

Prior to that, it talks about books being opened up.

This is what Paul explains in Romans 2:16

It's basically saying God reads us all like, we would read a book.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
It has nothing to do with the way we judge others. Well, not as much as you imply.

Matthew 7:1-3

Explains how God judges.

Romans 2:1-5 juxtaposed to Romans 1 illustrates this also.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
God is Love is what the bible says.

The bible says what love is.

This describes the character of God, go and do likewise.

Yes, God is loving. Does that mean that God does not condemn? If not, then what is Hell?

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Yes, God is loving. Does that mean that God does not condemn? If not, then what is Hell?

Hell is the presence of God to those who are unprepared.

If the presence of God only causes endless purification of sin, it would be torture.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Matthew 7:1-3

Explains how God judges.

Romans 2:1-5 juxtaposed to Romans 1 illustrates this also.

Okay, let's take Romans 2:1-5 for example.

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

In parts:
"for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself"

because:
"for you who judge practice the same things."

The condemnation wasn't just about judging others, but in practicing the same evil for which we judge others.

Next part:
"But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things."

The judgement is against the practice of such things (which were the very things for which we condemned others). We are not condemned for judging. We are condemned for being just as bad, in spite of knowing that it was bad.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Hell is the presence of God to those who are unprepared.

Is God currently absent, or are we in Hell?

If the presence of God only causes endless purification of sin, it would be torture.

If a man is sin, and all things good come from God, then the purification of sin is the elimination of that man.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Okay, let's take Romans 2:1-5 for example.

In parts:
"for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself"

because:
"for you who judge practice the same things."

The condemnation wasn't just about judging others, but in practicing the same evil for which we judge others.

Next part:
"But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things."

The judgement is against the practice of such things (which were the very things for which we condemned others). We are not condemned for judging. We are condemned for being just as bad, in spite of knowing that it was bad.

This was also juxtaposed to a whole list of sins in Romans 1 so it follows the James 2:10 principle that if you sin at all, then you've committed every sin.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Is God currently absent, or are we in Hell?

If a man is sin, and all things good come from God, then the purification of sin is the elimination of that man.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Sin is separate from creation, but in our current state it is inseparable.

The lake of fire is an attempt to remove sin from creation. And at the very least a barrier so the new creation is not infected with it as the first creation was.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
This was also juxtaposed to a whole list of sins in Romans 1 so it follows the James 2:10 principle that if you sin at all, then you've committed every sin.

If God is perfect, then it would stand to reason that anything less than perfection falls short of the glory of God.

nonaeroterraqueous · Dec 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
The lake of fire is an attempt to remove sin from creation.

I would say that Christ's atonement on the cross served the purpose of removing sin from creation. Beyond that, anyone who remains in sin is condemned.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
If God is perfect, then it would stand to reason that anything less than perfection falls short of the glory of God.

Our understanding of perfection is less that perfect, so looking at the scriptures for more specific indicators is necessary.

In Romans 14, it is identified that anything that does not come from faith is sin.

In 1st John, it is identified that love being made perfect or mature in us gives us confidence or boldness on the day of judgment. In this passage, love and fear are made dichotomy, since fear cannot become perfected or mature in love.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
I would say that Christ's atonement on the cross served the purpose of removing sin from creation. Beyond that, anyone who remains in sin is condemned.

I'd disagree since sin was not removed from creation, obviously.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

mlepfitjw · Dec 1, 2020

Is this were we get the expression to never judge a book by its cover? Our spirit is covered by our flesh. Ayyyy. Michael.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 1, 2020

Agallagher said:
Is this were we get the expression to never judge a book by its cover? Our spirit is covered by our flesh. Ayyyy. Michael.

A tent as it were.

Noxot · Dec 1, 2020

God judges us according to our needs and our state of being. he is the author and perfecter of our faith and therefore those books opened that are us must be finished.

But our own spiritual state of being also judges ourself. Many in hell are simply pierced through by their own beliefs and animalistic madness. some souls are captured by the ones that they always gave ear to when they were in this world. that's one reason why it's so important to only listen to those who have your best interest at hand and those who want you to be near to God.

Emanuel swedenborg described some Souls first arriving in the other world. One type were some that thought they would forever worship and praise God. So they were locked in a church and they eventually got sick of it and they started to feel tormented by what they were doing.

One thing is certain and that is that our journey has only just begun.

mlepfitjw · Dec 1, 2020

Noxot said:
God judges us according to our needs and our state of being. he is the author and perfecter of our faith and therefore those books opened that are us must be finished.

But our own spiritual state of being also judges ourself. Many in hell are simply pierced through by their own beliefs and animalistic madness. some souls are captured by the ones that they always gave ear to when they were in this world. that's one reason why it's so important to only listen to those who have your best interest at hand and those who want you to be near to God.

Emanuel swedenborg described some Souls first arriving in the other world. One type were some that thought they would forever worship and praise God. So they were locked in a church and they eventually got sick of it and they started to feel tormented by what they were doing.

One thing is certain and that is that our journey has only just begun.

@Noxot I don’t know, the Bible told me hell and hades were done away with. In the last chapter of Revelation it reveals a heavenly city, which believers came in through the gate, but those who didn’t (come through) were on the outside of the gate. ( the murderous, sinners who wanted nothing to do with God and loved lying, even calls them dogs)

Which is cool with me, maybe we can have a job to do in heaven rather than singing and praising God all the time which is cool and I’m fine with signings and praises to Him.

Though I wonder if God would let us go help those outside the gates...

I also hope that the next life is less painful than this one.

I don’t know if I believe anything else other than this.

disciple Clint · Dec 2, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Yes, God is loving. Does that mean that God does not condemn? If not, then what is Hell?

God sends no one to hell Anyone who ends up in hell did so by their own desires and decisions. God is just.

So about those books ..

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Nonexistent Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Nonexistent Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Nonexistent Member

Nonexistent Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Nonexistent Member

Nonexistent Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

May you be blessed!

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

anarchist personalist

May you be blessed!

Well-Known Member

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