Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

If you walk in love with Christ in you, you will see signs and wonders. Man is created in God's image and He has given us His Word which is God, scripture tells us. This Word is filled with power to overcome all adversity. So, be filled with His Word. Know God is with you and watch how things change in your life! But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayst do it. Deuteronomy 30:14 May you all be blessed during this difficult time!

Albion said:

That's not a reasonable conclusion. Yes, prophesy is instructive, but there's no reason to think that it is the ONLY means of instruction.

If it were, there wouldn't have been the divine revelation given through the books of the Bible, for instance.

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These verses were written for Christians down through the ages.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

The ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit cannot be void.

You are right that a person should not, "need", a sign. The Jews were always wanting a sign and Jesus reprimanded them for it. He also said, blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29

danielmears said:

You are right that a person should not, "need", a sign. The Jews were always wanting a sign and Jesus reprimanded them for it. He also said, blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29

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Jesus did a lot of signs and wonders. But that wasn't enough for the Pharisees. They wanted a sign from heaven that he was the Messiah.

John 2:18
The Jews then said to Him, “What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?”

Also the apostles did signs and wonders so people would believe.

Acts 14:3
Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

klutedavid said:

These verses were written for Christians down through the ages.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

The ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit cannot be void.

Click to expand...

Just because Paul makes mention of a particular gift in his letter to the Corinthians doesn't mean it must be present throughout all ages. Paul says that the most pre-eminent spiritual gift is apostleship (1 Cor 12:28). That doesn't mean there must be apostles today. In fact the word apostles is referenced in the present tense throughout his epistles - only because they were active at the time of writing, not because we would have apostles throughout all time.

Paul's letter was addressed to the Corinthians, not all churches. "To the church of God which is at Corinth" (1 Cor 1:2). Throughout his epistle he is dealing with problems that were specific to the Corinthian church only, not all churches. If it was addressed to all believers worldwide it would mean we are all guilty of abuse of the Lord's table, sexual immorality, creating divisive factions, taking fellow believers to court, opposing Paul's authority, etc. etc. The same applies to their use/misuse of spiritual gifts. Have you ever noticed how many times Paul uses the word "you" in 1 Cor 14? He was referring to the Corinthians, not us.

Of course we can heed the instructions Paul gave the Corinthians, but only in situations that apply to us today. For example, do Paul's instruction regarding head coverings apply to women today, or was that only relevant to the culture of the time when women generally wore head-coverings as a symbol of submission to their husbands?

Major1 said:

There is and as been for some time now an argument on whether or not the Sign Gifts of tongues, healing, knowledge and prophecy are still valid. The two sides are..........

1. CESSATIONALISM which says the ended with the Apostles Sign.
2. CONTINUUALISM which says that those sign gifts are ongoing even to today.

The actual "Sign Gifts" are what God posted in Mark 16:14-18 and notice that they were given to the ELEVEN. No one today is included in the ELEVEN because no one today is a called Apostle.

"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as THEY sat at meat, and upbraided THEM with THEIR unbelief and hardness of heart, because THEY believed not THEM which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17"""AND THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE;""" In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Now anyone can believe anything they want to and ALL people will do that even in the face of the written Word of God. Allow me to illustrate that fact.

In the above written Word of God we see......."Them that believe" ...
In the original Greek Grammar and is confirmed by "Stong's Concordance" ......
The antecedent of "them" is "the eleven themselves" as recorded in Mark 16:14..

What does that then mean. It means literally and grammatically that the only ones the phrase validates as the ones who the SIGN GIFTS were given to is the ELEVEN of verse # 14. The only way this can be avoided is to change the singular pronouns in Mark 16:15-16 into plural pronouns contrary to the Greek text. There is nothing difficult in this interpretation, since it is simply basic Greek grammar. It is either accepted or it is rejected for what WE WANT IT TO SAY instead of what it actually does say.

I am not making "opinions or ideas or my thoughts" but instead I am giving what is literally and grammatically said and not what I want it to be saying.

For too many Christians, “spiritual experiences” and “sincerity” along with "what they have heard" are given priority over the written Word of God as the criteria to determine doctrinal truth and practice. We must understand that when someone who loves God opposes Him out of ignorance, the Devil is more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

Furthermore, all too often Christians use their experiences to validate the Word of God, rather than allowing the written Word to be the ultimate “discerner” (Heb. 4:12-KJV) of the things that pertain to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3). This leaves them open to counterfeit spiritual experiences. “Counterfeit?”, you ask? Yes, the Devil is a spirit being who is adept at creating spiritual experiences for worshipers of all faiths.

The Bible calls these “…counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders” (2 Thess. 2:9). It is vital for Christians to learn to be discerning in worship lest they displease the God and Lord they seek to honor and deceive themselves.

Be well and stay safe and may God richly bless you.

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I find the bible is pretty clear why some gifts seem to have disappeared.

There's just no faith in God anymore, just faith in a book.

Major1 said:

Yes, they will end simultaneousely as YOU SAID and IMHO that day has come and gone when the Bible was completed. which was the PERFECT of 1 Corth. 13:9.

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As I said before, you can’t come face to face with a book.

Read the passage again.

chad kincham said:

As I said before, you can’t come face to face with a book.

Read the passage again.

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God still heals today.

There are just no one around in the Body of Christ with the "gift of healing".

Major1 said:

Paul wrote in 1 Corth. 13:8-9 that there was coming a day when the gift of prophecy would fail, the gift of tongues would cease, and the gift of knowledge would vanish away (verse 8). The Church the Body of Christ would move away from doctrinal immaturity and into doctrinal maturity. In other words, the completed revelation from God would be given, and this would bring about mature saints, people who fully grasped what God wanted them to know (Ephesians 4:11-14).

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It’s easy to refute this:

Prophecy, knowledge, and tongues end at the same time, when that which is perfect comes, and it says then we shall see face to face.

The Bible has no face, neither does scripture - but Jesus at His second coming does have a face.

The three end simultaneously at that time - yet in the last days, prophecy doesn’t end - it increases:

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And knowledge doesn’t end in the last days, it increases - and today we remain in a huge knowledge explosion:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Since both knowledge and prophecy increase in the last days and end times - and since tongues and knowledge and prophecy all end simultaneously, when that which is perfect comes - it’s obvious all three are still for today, and that the Bible is not that which is perfect, to come.

Spiritual gifts won’t be necessary when Jesus returns and sets up His perfect kingdom..

Spiritual gifts are in effect until Jesus returns - as Paul told the church at Corinth, they’ve been given knowledge so they won’t lack any spiritual gift, while they await the return of Jesus:

1Co 1:5 that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—

1Co 1:6 even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—

1Co 1:7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

The word GIFT is CHARISMA in the Greek, the word that CHARISMATIC comes from - thus its talking about them not lacking in any spiritual gifts, while they await the return of Jesus.

Here’s some more translations of that verse:

New International Version
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

New Living Translation
Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

English Standard Version
so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Berean Study Bible
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Guojing said:

God still heals today.

There are just no one around in the Body of Christ with the "gift of healing".

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You mean no one but the tens of thousands of Christians who lay hands on the sick and heal them?

chad kincham said:

You mean no one but the tens of thousands of Christians who lay hands on the sick and heal them?

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Which one of them claim to have the gift of healing?

Back aches, headaches and other unverifiable healings do not count.

I think we might be missing the point maybe, etc...?

God's power to do "whatever" is still present and still there, and it may be possible to see it working around you in your life sometimes, but it is not absolutely necessary for all, etc, but, anyway, God's power to do "almost anything", etc, presence, etc, is most certainly here/there, always there, etc, but I think we must truly seek out His "will for today", and during this period of time, etc, and whether it is any different from yesterday (or in the past), etc...?

And after that, then the issue might be or become "trust" also, cause any individual that is given any of that power, etc, to do or be or work through personally, etc, can very, very, very easily be "lost", etc, and lost almost immediately sometimes, etc, cause that kind of power can way, way, way all to much very much easily "corrupt" someone, etc, and can cause them to be or become a child of only the Devil only, etc...

And/cause since God does not take back any of His gifting's once they are bestowed upon a person, or are given away to a person, etc, then they can also be doing these things, and be still continuing to be doing these things, etc, but can still be, or can become again, still very, very evil inside, etc, so that their "power" only magnifies only the Devil only, or the devil that is now them only, or is now only in them only, etc...

You know that old saying "power corrupts" right...?

Well, besides God's will, etc, and besides the whole trust issue, and one's own faith issue, etc, that might be yet another concern of His, etc, that the person will become very, very corrupt, etc, and only be magnifying/glorifying only either just themselves only, or only the Devil only, etc...

Since the gifts of God are without repentance, or taking them back after they are bestowed or given, etc...

But make no doubt about it, God's power, (and His presence) is most certainly and definitely "there", etc, and is still just as powerful as it has always been always, etc...

We would need to know His will for today, and is it is any different from yesterday, and then we would have to have the faith (of course), and then He would have to be able to trust us, and then we would have to be or not be, or not become corrupted by it afterwards, etc, so that our only witness after that is only for only the Devil only, etc...

It is very, very, very hard to be or stay truly humble once you have been given any of these kinds of gifts or abilities, etc...

And you have to do that "perfectly", etc, otherwise your "witness" is "no good", etc, and is "not ever good ever at all ever", etc...

Of absolutely "no good use to God ever after that at all ever if you cross that or those lines ever at all ever after that ever", etc...

If you don't already meet the mark of perfection before they (those gifts) are given, etc, then your soul will probably be in very, very serious and nigh constant serious jeopardy always, etc...

So much so that I have serious doubts about any of us ever being able to truly do it, etc, and do it right, or the way it is supposed to be done, etc...

You almost all but forget they were "gifts" in the first place, etc...

And that is a very, very dangerous place to be, in those specific circumstances, etc, if you are given some "gifts", etc, that stick or stay with you for life no matter what, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

chad kincham said:

It’s easy to refute this:

Prophecy, knowledge, and tongues end at the same time, when that which is perfect comes, and it says then we shall see face to face.

The Bible has no face, neither does scripture - but Jesus at His second coming does have a face.

The three end simultaneously at that time - yet in the last days, prophecy doesn’t end - it increases:

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And knowledge doesn’t end in the last days, it increases - and today we remain in a huge knowledge explosion:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Since both knowledge and prophecy increase in the last days and end times - and since tongues and knowledge and prophecy all end simultaneously, when that which is perfect comes - it’s obvious all three are still for today, and that the Bible is not that which is perfect, to come.

Spiritual gifts won’t be necessary when Jesus returns and sets up His perfect kingdom..

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Does anyone have the good representation of that which is perfect? I was listening to a minister preach on this... And he pauses... And says, "You know some folk have the strangest love!"

I have a genuine question. If the gifts of healing ended after the apostles why are there some people who have continuously even after the apostles's deaths, even up to Christians living today that have gifts of the Holy Spirit? I'll explain. Paul describes what some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in 1 Corinthians 12. In 1 Corinthians 12:8-9 Paul says:

For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit.


Pay attention to the parts I've bolded. We've never in the last 2,000 years seen pastors and theologians utter knowledge and wisdom before? So Constantine came up with his great theology by himself? So, the pastor that you go to see on Sunday got all of his knowledge from the Bible by himself and not the Holy Spirit right? A great Theologian like RC. Sproul never uttered such unbelievable knowledge of the scriptures from himself right? No! They have the Holy Spirit helping them! Every great pastor or theologian asks for the Holy Spirits power to tell them what they should be talking about that day and what scriptures to read and for the Holy Spirit's power to help them decipher the scriptures. Same with some Christians too. We rely on God's power to help us decipher what scriptures to read and what they mean. It's all a gift and work from the Holy Spirit! And that's just the tipping of the iceberg though, Paul also said that a gift from the Holy Spirit is our faith. Every single child of God has this gift, (If you don't how are you a Christian. You cannot be a Christian without faith.). Or gifts of healing. This one could be debatable but one confirmed Case of healing is Joan of Arc. She healed people in front of the British so it's a confirmed act of healing. Why do you think they wanted to execute her for being a witch? It wasn't just because of her attire. It was also because she had the "powers" of a witch.


No, people still have gifts of the Holy Spirit, they always have, and they always will.

Neostarwcc said:

I have a genuine question. If the gifts of healing ended after the apostles why are there some people who have continuously even after the apostles's deaths, even up to Christians living today that have gifts of the Holy Spirit? I'll explain. Paul describes what some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in 1 Corinthians 12. In 1 Corinthians 12:8-9 Paul says:

For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit.


Pay attention to the parts I've bolded. We've never in the last 2,000 years seen pastors and theologians utter knowledge and wisdom before? So Constantine came up with his great theology by himself? So, the pastor that you go to see on Sunday got all of his knowledge from the Bible by himself and not the Holy Spirit right? A great Theologian like RC. Sproul never uttered such unbelievable knowledge of the scriptures from himself right? No! They have the Holy Spirit helping them! Every great pastor or theologian asks for the Holy Spirits power to tell them what they should be talking about that day and what scriptures to read and for the Holy Spirit's power to help them decipher the scriptures. Same with some Christians too. We rely on God's power to help us decipher what scriptures to read and what they mean. It's all a gift and work from the Holy Spirit! And that's just the tipping of the iceberg though, Paul also said that a gift from the Holy Spirit is our faith. Every single child of God has this gift, (If you don't how are you a Christian. You cannot be a Christian without faith.). Or gifts of healing. This one could be debatable but one confirmed Case of healing is Joan of Arc. She healed people in front of the British so it's a confirmed act of healing. Why do you think they wanted to execute her for being a witch? It wasn't just because of her attire. It was also because she had the "powers" of a witch.


No, people still have gifts of the Holy Spirit, they always have, and they always will.

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I thought the covid-19 issue has laid to rest the question on whether are there people with the gift of healing today?

Guojing said:

I thought the covid-19 issue has laid to rest the question on whether are there people with the gift of healing today?

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Maybe you think the gift of healing means always be able to heal, like Jesus did. That's not my view. I believe the Holy Spirit speaks to the gifted Christian when a healing is to take place.

Acts 14:3
Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

zoidar said:

Maybe you think the gift of healing means always be able to heal, like Jesus did. That's not my view. I believe the Holy Spirit speaks to the gifted Christian when a healing is to take place.

Acts 14:3
Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

Click to expand...

Then its no longer a sign gift.

God still heals today, of course, no one is denying that.

Signs are different, signs are meant to testify towards something, and thus, its guaranteed to happen, level of faith is not a criteria.

For example, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus fed the 5000 when no one was expecting him to.

They are meant to happen, and it happened as a sign to Israel, that their Messiah is here in the flesh (John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4)

Guojing said:

Then its no longer a sign gift.

God still heals today, of course, no one is denying that.

Signs are different, signs are meant to testify towards something, and thus, its guaranteed to happen, level of faith is not a criteria.

For example, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus fed the 5000 when no one was expecting him to.

They are meant to happen, and it happened as a sign to Israel, that their Messiah is here in the flesh (John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4)

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But Jesus didn't need faith, because he was God, or at least he had enough to do everything,
We need it though. He rebuked the disciples for their lack of faith several times, and they were seeing this stuff he was doing.

Major1 said:

There is and as been for some time now an argument on whether or not the Sign Gifts of tongues, healing, knowledge and prophecy are still valid. The two sides are..........

1. CESSATIONALISM which says the ended with the Apostles Sign.
2. CONTINUUALISM which says that those sign gifts are ongoing even to today.

The actual "Sign Gifts" are what God posted in Mark 16:14-18 and notice that they were given to the ELEVEN. No one today is included in the ELEVEN because no one today is a called Apostle.

"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as THEY sat at meat, and upbraided THEM with THEIR unbelief and hardness of heart, because THEY believed not THEM which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17"""AND THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE;""" In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Now anyone can believe anything they want to and ALL people will do that even in the face of the written Word of God. Allow me to illustrate that fact.

In the above written Word of God we see......."Them that believe" ...
In the original Greek Grammar and is confirmed by "Stong's Concordance" ......
The antecedent of "them" is "the eleven themselves" as recorded in Mark 16:14..

What does that then mean. It means literally and grammatically that the only ones the phrase validates as the ones who the SIGN GIFTS were given to is the ELEVEN of verse # 14. The only way this can be avoided is to change the singular pronouns in Mark 16:15-16 into plural pronouns contrary to the Greek text. There is nothing difficult in this interpretation, since it is simply basic Greek grammar. It is either accepted or it is rejected for what WE WANT IT TO SAY instead of what it actually does say.

I am not making "opinions or ideas or my thoughts" but instead I am giving what is literally and grammatically said and not what I want it to be saying.

For too many Christians, “spiritual experiences” and “sincerity” along with "what they have heard" are given priority over the written Word of God as the criteria to determine doctrinal truth and practice. We must understand that when someone who loves God opposes Him out of ignorance, the Devil is more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

Furthermore, all too often Christians use their experiences to validate the Word of God, rather than allowing the written Word to be the ultimate “discerner” (Heb. 4:12-KJV) of the things that pertain to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3). This leaves them open to counterfeit spiritual experiences. “Counterfeit?”, you ask? Yes, the Devil is a spirit being who is adept at creating spiritual experiences for worshipers of all faiths.

The Bible calls these “…counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders” (2 Thess. 2:9). It is vital for Christians to learn to be discerning in worship lest they displease the God and Lord they seek to honor and deceive themselves.

Be well and stay safe and may God richly bless you.

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See Acts chapter 2 verses 17 and 39 regarding the gifts for all generations.
.