Show me these grammar rules then that should be used to interpret 2 Thess 2:8-9. I think you're just making this up.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The him in verse 9 is a relative and not definite pronoun. it is genitive, singular, masculine. If it was a definite pronoun then the standard rule applies and it must refer back to its nearest antecedant. Because it is relative, it is defined by the sentence or phrase it is part of. Ergo, we must look for one whose coming is after Satan and wicked. That is why this pronoun can skip can skip its first antecedant, because it does match teh description of who the pronoun is!
Simple example: Jon the Blonde and Bob the Brunette played on a football team. His light hair made him stand out above the others. this follows the same rule though it is a definite pronoun. If light was not included to describe him, then Bob would be referred to. but because light (and working of Satan) describes the identity of the pronoun, it has to go back to the antecedant that matches that descritpion.
don't just take my word for it- go search rules of grammar for yourself. I have no reason to lie to you or seek to deceive.
I believe you know that you can't and this is the excuse you came up with to not show it to me. We need to use spiritual discernment to interpret scripture, not made up grammar rules.
You can believe any hypothesis you feel. Doesn't make it true however. And if you don't take the time to verify what I have shown you, it is you that suffers, not me.
How many times do I have to tell you to just read
Hebrews 8-10? The entire passage is quoted in
Hebrews 8:6-13. What does that tell you? Can you not accept what is written there? Does everything have to be spelled out to you for something to be fulfilled? If the NT says something is fulfilled, then it is. Period. You're probably one of those who doesn't accept that the OT prophecy in
Malachi 4 about Elijah was fulfilled by John the Baptist even though the NT says so. Am I right?
I have and you still have not shown me WHEN these events occurred as written and spoken by god:
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Are you telling me that the houses of Israel and Judah (all Israelites) have Gods laws written in their hearts? God said He will do it so are you saying He has done it ? He said HE WILL do it after those days! So I am assuming based on you rmany posts after those days mean after Jesus rose to heaven.
Are you also telling me that every Israeli alive now knows the Lord? god says ALL SHALL know Him?
Are you telling me that God has forgiven and forgotten every Israelis sin? God says HE will forgive them all from the least to the greatest.
So since Jesus ascended do you believe every Israeli is saved and needs no teaching at all for they all know the Lord?
Again, what do you mean exactly? It is still in effect and people are continually being saved under the new covenant, so I guess in that sense it hasn't been completely fulfilled. In that sense it will be completely fulfilled once the last person has been saved.
Is this a different new Covenant God made with people? I know God made a covenant with teh people of Israel called the Old covenant. they broke that covenant and so God in Jeremiah 31 says He is (not might) going ot make a new covenant with teh house of Judah and house of Israel) no gentiles mentioned here. so if your new covenant is not the Jeremiah covenant which new covenant is it?
Okay. Are we just getting lost in semantics here? At what point do you think it will be fulfilled?
Not semantics, but how words are defined!
Teh new covenant will be fulfilled or completed when the terms God set forth in Jeremiah 31:31-34 come to pass!
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Why do you have such a hard time understanding such simple and unambiuous language?
You make God out to be a respecter of persons in regards to salvation, but scripture repeatedly says that He is not.
This is presumptuousness on your part. we have not been talking avbout soteriology in general but teh new covenant in specific.
You need to read passages like
Romans 9:6-8,
Galatians 3:26-29 and
Galatians 6:14-16 to find out the identity of all Israel. The New Testament repeatedly indicates that one's nationality has nothing to do with salvation, but rather it has to do with belonging to Christ. He shed His blood for all people so that all people, whether Jew or Gentile, can be saved. You think God has a separate plan for Jews and Gentiles while the New Testament repeatedly says that He has the same plan for both Jew and Gentile. You need to allow the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament for you instead of the other way around.
And as I have repeatedly told you I agree! though for salvation and entrance and blessing in the one new man shows no preference, the same writer (Paul) and the same inspirer (God) Also showed many many many times that there is still a difference between Jew and Gentile.
And I have repeatedly told you there is only one plan of salvation until eternity begins! Trust in Christ.
But because of your allegorical re-interpretation of the term Jew in the NT. to mean any believer, you make the NT a bowl of mush in many places.
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
This defines teh term "Israel of God and "a Jew is not a Jew outwardly but inwardly" romans 2 is not about identity but spiritual identity.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Paul here is writing to non _Jews who are believers. He does not recognize them as some new "spiritual Israel".
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Casting away of jews??? Teh new Israel which are believers?????? Why not?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Paul clearly lets us know that salvation is the same for Jew and Gentile- there is still some kind of difference. Itr is not defined here, but all in the OT.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Can you see that the Jews though still in need of trusting Christ are beloved for the Fathers sake???
and that the nation as a nation (ethnos) is enemies for now. Just until the fullness of the gentiles enter.
Eph. 2:
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
This is important to understand. Paul is speaking to GENTIE believers in this letter. What He is saying is that because of Jesus gentiles are now fellowcitizens with the set apart ones (saints) and the household of God. Now as Epheisans being written to are already part of teh church, who is Paul speaking of as saints and household of God? Going back to the context, it is only Israel.
Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
See? We gentiles are partakers of the blessings that belong to Israel, we are grafted into that place of blessing! but at one point in the future, god will save the nation of Israel that is existing on earth as I have shown multiple times.
Once again:
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
This new covenant as declared here in Jeremiah and also in Hebrews:
Hebrews 8:6-13
King James Version
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
You need to remembee that teh writer is writng to Jews and not gentiles! Almost the entire of Hebrews is an apologetic for the supremacy of Jesus over the Old Testament sacrifices.
The church, ( amystery hid on the old and revealed in the new) is partaker of the blessings of he covenant, but the church has not negated the promise to the Jewish nation as a nation.
Remember this passage is still very very very true:
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
As far as God dealing with the nation and people of Israel? The church age is an interlude for the calling out of the gentiles a people for the name of Jesus! And when teh full number of gentiles is brought in-God will save the nation of Israelis as promised in Ez. 20 and Zech 13.