Biden's economic plan requires Socialism.

miamited · Nov 30, 2020

Hi OWG,

Well, I'm certainly in agreement that every nation generally has some socialist programs. I believe that we already have a few and, for the most part, they seem to be working out fine for the general populace. So, I'm not against any particular law or legislation being deemed as 'socialist' just on that basis alone, as being a bad thing.

God bless,
ted

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

Speedwell said:
Wow! Are you ever reading too much into that.

I didn't write it.

Desk trauma · Nov 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Read this carefully (from the link).

"In a sign that Mr. Biden plans to focus on spreading economic wealth, his transition team put issues of equality and worker empowerment at the forefront of its news release announcing the nominees, saying they would help the incoming administration create an economy that gives every single person across America a fair shot and an equal chance to get ahead.”

A government created economy is by definition socialism.

Just like having an economic plan by definition means we are under a planned economy rather then a capitalist one.

public hermit · Nov 30, 2020

I just read the OP's article and found nothing to suggest socialism. If the devil is in the details, then let's see those details from the article and their connection to socialism. Simply posting an article and hollering "Socialism!" doesn't cut it. If that can't be done, then this thread should be moved to the conspiracy forum along with the rest of the propaganda and false claims that continue to clutter these forums. This is getting tiresome.

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

miamited said:
Hi OWG,

Well, I'm certainly in agreement that every nation generally has some socialist programs. I believe that we already have a few and, for the most part, they seem to be working out fine for the general populace. So, I'm not against any particular law or legislation being deemed as 'socialist' just on that basis alone, as being a bad thing.

God bless,
ted

I agree. I merely pointed it out, I didn't criticize it. The reader can decide whether it's a good thing or not.

miamited · Nov 30, 2020

Hi OWG,

You posted:

OldWiseGuy said:
A government created economy is by definition socialism.

Uhhhh, aren't all economies pretty much government created? And, 'A government created economy is by definition socialism' is not a true statement. Only a government created economy that meets the qualifications, such as, advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole; or a government whose: policy or practice is based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

God bless,
ted

Albion · Nov 30, 2020

Strathos said:
Guess what? Without "socialism" we wouldn't have publicly funded police and fire departments, roads, and utilities.

Do stop. We've heard that one so many times and it's never been true. That is NOT what distinguishes Socialism from other forms of government.

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Just like having an economic plan by definition means we are under a planned economy rather then a capitalist one.

The article says a government planned economy, not an economic plan to supplement the present one.

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

miamited said:
Hi OWG,

You posted:

Uhhhh, aren't all economies pretty much government created? And, 'A government created economy is by definition socialism' is not a true statement. Only a government created economy that meets the qualifications, such as, advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole; or a government whose: policy or practice is based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

God bless,
ted

The government provides the money for capitalism and free enterprise.

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

public hermit said:
I just read the OP's article and found nothing to suggest socialism. If the devil is in the details, then let's see those details from the article and their connection to socialism. Simply posting an article and hollering "Socialism!" doesn't cut it. If that can't be done, then this thread should be moved to the conspiracy forum along with the rest of the propaganda and false claims that continue to clutter these forums. This is getting tiresome.

Read it again.

Desk trauma · Nov 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
The article says a government planned economy, not an economic plan to supplement the present one.

Ah, we are only reading things into one commonly used phrase not others.

public hermit · Nov 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Read it again.

Make an argument using the details of the article. The onus of proof is on the one who makes the claim.

Gene2memE · Nov 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Read this carefully (from the link).

"In a sign that Mr. Biden plans to focus on spreading economic wealth, his transition team put issues of equality and worker empowerment at the forefront of its news release announcing the nominees, saying they would help the incoming administration create an economy that gives every single person across America a fair shot and an equal chance to get ahead.”

A government created economy is by definition socialism.

Way to read into a statement what isn't there. Governments intervene in markets - that's what's meant by "create an economy".

grasping the after wind · Nov 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Biden's plan for expanding unions, economic equality and opportunity, will require a socialistic economic system. How else can the government provide full employment for everyone at high wages, and universal health insurance?

No government is capable of providing that under any system. Government can't do the impossible. An actual socialist system, where the government is control of the means of production, always provides totally inadequate resources for anyone but those in the government or those in the black market. Capitalist social democracies that are common in what is referred to by many as the western world do tend to provide the most reasonable amount of prosperity for the vast majority of citizens though they inevitably provide an extremely lavish lifestyle for those that produce the most and bankroll government to the greatest degree. .

grasping the after wind · Nov 30, 2020

Strathos said:
Certain people like to cry socialism at any kind of law or policy that involves the government using tax money for anything. I'm just pointing out the logical consequences of that line of reasoning.

The chance of the US actually adopting a completely socialist economy is pretty much zero, considering that many northern European countries which are far, far to the left of US politics are still capitalist, just with reasonable social safety nets.

I'm not saying that too much socialism isn't bad, look at China and Vietnam. You get communism, and that's way too far. But it's a balance, like the temperature of water in a swimming pool. Too hot is a problem, but so is too cold. You want water you can comfortably swim in, but certain people complain that if the water is a few degrees hotter than they prefer then it might as well be boiling.

All actual socialism is bad IMO. Social democracy however is not anything like actual socialism.

Sparagmos · Nov 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Biden's plan for expanding unions, economic equality and opportunity, will require a socialistic economic system. How else can the government provide full employment for everyone at high wages, and universal health insurance?

If that’s socialism then yeehaw! Sounds good to me.

Trogdor the Burninator · Nov 30, 2020

We're still OK with socialism when it's the government subsidising farmers or bailing out corporations though, right?

Albion · Nov 30, 2020

Trogdor the Burninator said:
We're still OK with socialism when it's the government subsidising farmers or bailing out corporations though, right?

That all depends on who is speaking.

Strathos · Nov 30, 2020

Albion said:
Do stop. We've heard that one so many times and it's never been true. That is NOT what distinguishes Socialism from other forms of government.

grasping the after wind said:
All actual socialism is bad IMO. Social democracy however is not anything like actual socialism.

It's a matter of degree. A nation with zero socialist policies would have a government that never did anything at all, or no government whatsoever (i.e. Somalia for quite a while). A nation with nothing but socialist policies is communist. Surely you can agree that the ideal lies somewhere between those extremes.

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Ah, we are only reading things into one commonly used phrase not others.

I'm also considering the progressive's agenda for Biden's administration. Very socialistic, imo.

OldWiseGuy · Nov 30, 2020

public hermit said:
Make an argument using the details of the article. The onus of proof is on the one who makes the claim.

I believe it's spelled out pretty clearly in the article. I highlighted the operative phrase already.

Biden's economic plan requires Socialism.

Ted

Wake me when it's soup.

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Ted

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