At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

BNR32FAN

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I`m quitting this site so this is the last you will hear from me. I answer you now because I truly care about you as I do all the brethren.

The garment is the righteousness of Jesus which covers all those who believe. You can not gain it by works. It`s the blood on the door that causes the death angel to pass us by. That blood only comes from the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The righteous are scarcely saved and are only saved by the blood of Jesus which you apply to your door by surrendering to Him.

For this reason, I oppose those who promote works for salvation in all its forms.

Surrendering to Christ sounds really nice but where is it stated in the scriptures?
 
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zoidar

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Surrendering to Christ sounds really nice but where is it stated in the scriptures?

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
 
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BNR32FAN

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Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

I don’t see this as evidence of surrendering in the context being used in the post i was replying to. I mean the words pick up your cross and work out your salvation don’t exactly equate to believing and doing nothing. Christ’s sheep hear and follow they don’t just hear and do nothing.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Surrendering to Christ sounds really nice but where is it stated in the scriptures?
Ask and ye shall receive !

When Jesus carried His cross up Golgotha to be crucified, no one was thinking of the cross as symbolic of a burden to carry. To a person in the first-century, the cross meant one thing and one thing only: death by the most painful and humiliating means human beings could develop.

Two thousand years later, Christians view the cross as a cherished symbol of atonement, forgiveness, grace, and love. But in Jesus’ day, the cross represented nothing but torturous death. Because the Romans forced convicted criminals to carry their own crosses to the place of crucifixion, bearing a cross meant carrying their own execution device while facing ridicule along the way to death.

Therefore, “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless.

When Jesus began teaching that He was going to die at the hands of the Jewish leaders and their Gentile overlords (Luke 9:22), His popularity sank. Many of the shocked followers rejected Him. Truly, they were not able to put to death their own ideas, plans, and desires, and exchange them for His.

Following Jesus is easy when life runs smoothly; our true commitment to Him is revealed during trials. Jesus assured us that trials will come to His followers (John 16:33). Discipleship demands sacrifice, and Jesus never hid that cost.

In Luke 9:57-62, three people seemed willing to follow Jesus. When Jesus questioned them further, their commitment was half-hearted at best. They failed to count the cost of following Him. None was willing to take up his cross and crucify upon it his own interests.

Therefore, Jesus appeared to dissuade them. How different from the typical Gospel presentation! How many people would respond to an altar call that went, “Come follow Jesus, and you may face the loss of friends, family, reputation, career, and possibly even your life”? The number of false converts would likely decrease! Such a call is what Jesus meant when He said, “Take up your cross and follow Me.”

If you wonder if you are ready to take up your cross, consider these questions:

• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing some of your closest friends?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means alienation from your family?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means the loss of your reputation?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your job?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your life?

In some places of the world, these consequences are reality. But notice the questions are phrased, “Are you willing?” Following Jesus doesn’t necessarily mean all these things will happen to you, but are you willing to take up your cross? If there comes a point in your life where you are faced with a choice—Jesus or the comforts of this life—which will you choose?

Commitment to Christ means taking up your cross daily, giving up your hopes, dreams, possessions, even your very life if need be for the cause of Christ. Only if you willingly take up your cross may you be called His disciple (Luke 14:27). The reward is worth the price. Jesus followed His call of death to self (“Take up your cross and follow Me”) with the gift of life in Christ: “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:25-26).got questions


The Great Commission
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

So being a disciple is not an option its the beginning point in the great commission. One cannot be a follower of Jesus without being His Disciple. A Disciple is the starting point of a believer, a christian.


Who is the Lord ?

Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28). From then on, the apostles’ message was that Jesus is Lord, meaning “Jesus is God.” Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost contained that theme: “Let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah” (Acts 2:36). Later, in Cornelius’s house, Peter declared that Jesus is “Lord of all” (Acts 10:36). Note how in Romans 10:9 Jesus’ lordship is linked to His resurrection: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

The statement “Jesus is Lord” means that Jesus is God. Jesus has “all authority in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18). He is Lord of the Sabbath (Luke 6:5). He is “our only Sovereign and Lord” (Jude 1:4). He is, in fact, the Lord of lords (Revelation 17:14).

Jesus referred to Himself as “Lord” many times (e.g., Luke 19:31; John 13:13). And when we compare the Old Testament with the New, we find several times when the “LORD” (Yahweh) of the Hebrew Bible is equated with the “Lord Jesus” by the apostles. For example, Psalm 34:8 says, “Taste and see that the LORD is good,” and that passage is alluded to in 1 Peter 2:3, except there Jesus is the “Lord” who is good. Isaiah 8:13 says that “the LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy”; in 1 Peter 3:15 we are commanded, “In your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy” (ESV).

Amazingly, the Lord Jesus left His exalted position in heaven and came to earth to save us. In His Incarnation, He showed us what true meekness looks like (see Matthew 11:29). Just before His arrest, Jesus used His power and authority to teach us humility: “Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet” (John 13:14). The last will be first, according to our Lord (Matthew 19:30).

In saying, “Jesus is Lord,” we commit ourselves to obey Him. Jesus asked, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46). An acknowledgement of Jesus’ lordship is logically accompanied by a submission to Jesus’ authority. If Jesus is Lord, then He owns us; He has the right to tell us what to do.

A person who says, “Jesus is Lord,” with a full understanding of what that means (Jesus is God and has supreme authority over all things) has been divinely enlightened: “No one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:3). Faith in the Lord Jesus is required for salvation (Acts 16:31).

Jesus is Lord. It’s the truth, whether or not people acknowledge the fact. He is more than the Messiah, more than the Savior; He is the Lord of all. Someday, all will submit to that truth: “God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9–11).got?


Cheap Grace !

The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

Jesus, in His Great Commission to the 11 remaining disciples, commanded them to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). Evangelism and discipleship go hand in hand. A disciple is one who observes (keeps, obeys) all that Jesus has commanded. There is no two-stage process in Christianity—first, be saved; then become a disciple. This arbitrary distinction is foreign to the New Testament and therefore foreign to Christianity.

To play off the title of Bonhoeffer’s book, let’s look at what Jesus said to His disciples about discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In that passage, Jesus says to the crowds that no one can be His disciple unless they first hate their family (v. 26). Furthermore, the one who cannot bear his own cross cannot be His disciple (v. 27). Two conditions are given by Jesus in order to be His disciple. The first is to be willing to renounce family in order to follow Jesus. The second is to be willing to die, both literally and metaphorically (“die to self”) in order to follow Jesus. Jesus then gives two examples of “counting the cost.” The first is an example of a man who desires to build a tower without first counting the cost of building the tower. After realizing he cannot complete it, he gives up in shame and embarrassment. The second is that of a king preparing to go to battle and making sure he can defend against the superior foe. The point Jesus is making is that discipleship has a cost.

Furthermore, discipleship requires repentance and obedience. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, the message He preached was a message of repentance (Matthew 4:17). The message of the apostles after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension was also one of repentance (Acts 2:38). Along with repentance comes obedience. Jesus told a crowd of listeners that salvation and obedience go hand in hand: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46). Jesus then goes on to differentiate the one who builds his house on the sand from the one who builds his house on the rock, that is, the man who not only hears the words of Jesus, but does them, too.

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). There is nothing “cheap” about grace! got?



Matthew 10:24-39

The Meaning of Discipleship

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!

26 “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.


That’s what the majority of churches teach that all one has to do is "accept Jesus" and you will experience the abundant life and everything will be great and God will bless you with the desires of your heart. And we wonder why the " church" in America has no influence in our culture. The fact is Jesus made it hard to follow Him and said it might very well cost you your life, family, friends etc..... He said to count the cost before attempting to follow Him and many turned away from Him. In fact, Jesus said if the hate Me they will hate you and you will suffer persecution on My behalf. God’s word promises believers that they will face various trials but God will be there will you so that you might stand up under those trials. This easy believism in our culture has no effect on it whatsoever but those who count the cost and Jesus is their Lord will endure under hardship and He will sustain you. Most want to go to a church that makes them feel good, build up their self-esteem with the prosperity gospel, heath and wealth, name it and claim it false teaching that are prevalent on TV and many churches not only in the US but abroad. It’s a sad case how those teachers are leading people away from the Living God with their heresies.

hope this helps !!!
 
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zoidar

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I don’t see this as evidence of surrendering in the context being used in the post i was replying to. I mean the words pick up your cross and work out your salvation don’t exactly equate to believing and doing nothing. Christ’s sheep hear and follow they don’t just hear and do nothing.

I think the verse I quoted shows how we are saved, brought into the fold. Of course we need to stay in the fold. If we prepare nothing, then one day we will find ourself outside the fence. Exactly how and when that happens I don't know.
 
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Guojing

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Ask and ye shall receive !

When Jesus carried His cross up Golgotha to be crucified, no one was thinking of the cross as symbolic of a burden to carry. To a person in the first-century, the cross meant one thing and one thing only: death by the most painful and humiliating means human beings could develop.

Two thousand years later, Christians view the cross as a cherished symbol of atonement, forgiveness, grace, and love. But in Jesus’ day, the cross represented nothing but torturous death. Because the Romans forced convicted criminals to carry their own crosses to the place of crucifixion, bearing a cross meant carrying their own execution device while facing ridicule along the way to death.

Therefore, “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless.

When Jesus began teaching that He was going to die at the hands of the Jewish leaders and their Gentile overlords (Luke 9:22), His popularity sank. Many of the shocked followers rejected Him. Truly, they were not able to put to death their own ideas, plans, and desires, and exchange them for His.

Following Jesus is easy when life runs smoothly; our true commitment to Him is revealed during trials. Jesus assured us that trials will come to His followers (John 16:33). Discipleship demands sacrifice, and Jesus never hid that cost.

In Luke 9:57-62, three people seemed willing to follow Jesus. When Jesus questioned them further, their commitment was half-hearted at best. They failed to count the cost of following Him. None was willing to take up his cross and crucify upon it his own interests.

Therefore, Jesus appeared to dissuade them. How different from the typical Gospel presentation! How many people would respond to an altar call that went, “Come follow Jesus, and you may face the loss of friends, family, reputation, career, and possibly even your life”? The number of false converts would likely decrease! Such a call is what Jesus meant when He said, “Take up your cross and follow Me.”

If you wonder if you are ready to take up your cross, consider these questions:

• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing some of your closest friends?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means alienation from your family?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means the loss of your reputation?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your job?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your life?

In some places of the world, these consequences are reality. But notice the questions are phrased, “Are you willing?” Following Jesus doesn’t necessarily mean all these things will happen to you, but are you willing to take up your cross? If there comes a point in your life where you are faced with a choice—Jesus or the comforts of this life—which will you choose?

Commitment to Christ means taking up your cross daily, giving up your hopes, dreams, possessions, even your very life if need be for the cause of Christ. Only if you willingly take up your cross may you be called His disciple (Luke 14:27). The reward is worth the price. Jesus followed His call of death to self (“Take up your cross and follow Me”) with the gift of life in Christ: “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:25-26).got questions


The Great Commission
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

So being a disciple is not an option its the beginning point in the great commission. One cannot be a follower of Jesus without being His Disciple. A Disciple is the starting point of a believer, a christian.


Who is the Lord ?

Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28). From then on, the apostles’ message was that Jesus is Lord, meaning “Jesus is God.” Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost contained that theme: “Let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah” (Acts 2:36). Later, in Cornelius’s house, Peter declared that Jesus is “Lord of all” (Acts 10:36). Note how in Romans 10:9 Jesus’ lordship is linked to His resurrection: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

The statement “Jesus is Lord” means that Jesus is God. Jesus has “all authority in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18). He is Lord of the Sabbath (Luke 6:5). He is “our only Sovereign and Lord” (Jude 1:4). He is, in fact, the Lord of lords (Revelation 17:14).

Jesus referred to Himself as “Lord” many times (e.g., Luke 19:31; John 13:13). And when we compare the Old Testament with the New, we find several times when the “LORD” (Yahweh) of the Hebrew Bible is equated with the “Lord Jesus” by the apostles. For example, Psalm 34:8 says, “Taste and see that the LORD is good,” and that passage is alluded to in 1 Peter 2:3, except there Jesus is the “Lord” who is good. Isaiah 8:13 says that “the LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy”; in 1 Peter 3:15 we are commanded, “In your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy” (ESV).

Amazingly, the Lord Jesus left His exalted position in heaven and came to earth to save us. In His Incarnation, He showed us what true meekness looks like (see Matthew 11:29). Just before His arrest, Jesus used His power and authority to teach us humility: “Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet” (John 13:14). The last will be first, according to our Lord (Matthew 19:30).

In saying, “Jesus is Lord,” we commit ourselves to obey Him. Jesus asked, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46). An acknowledgement of Jesus’ lordship is logically accompanied by a submission to Jesus’ authority. If Jesus is Lord, then He owns us; He has the right to tell us what to do.

A person who says, “Jesus is Lord,” with a full understanding of what that means (Jesus is God and has supreme authority over all things) has been divinely enlightened: “No one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:3). Faith in the Lord Jesus is required for salvation (Acts 16:31).

Jesus is Lord. It’s the truth, whether or not people acknowledge the fact. He is more than the Messiah, more than the Savior; He is the Lord of all. Someday, all will submit to that truth: “God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9–11).got?


Cheap Grace !

The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

Jesus, in His Great Commission to the 11 remaining disciples, commanded them to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). Evangelism and discipleship go hand in hand. A disciple is one who observes (keeps, obeys) all that Jesus has commanded. There is no two-stage process in Christianity—first, be saved; then become a disciple. This arbitrary distinction is foreign to the New Testament and therefore foreign to Christianity.

To play off the title of Bonhoeffer’s book, let’s look at what Jesus said to His disciples about discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In that passage, Jesus says to the crowds that no one can be His disciple unless they first hate their family (v. 26). Furthermore, the one who cannot bear his own cross cannot be His disciple (v. 27). Two conditions are given by Jesus in order to be His disciple. The first is to be willing to renounce family in order to follow Jesus. The second is to be willing to die, both literally and metaphorically (“die to self”) in order to follow Jesus. Jesus then gives two examples of “counting the cost.” The first is an example of a man who desires to build a tower without first counting the cost of building the tower. After realizing he cannot complete it, he gives up in shame and embarrassment. The second is that of a king preparing to go to battle and making sure he can defend against the superior foe. The point Jesus is making is that discipleship has a cost.

Furthermore, discipleship requires repentance and obedience. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, the message He preached was a message of repentance (Matthew 4:17). The message of the apostles after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension was also one of repentance (Acts 2:38). Along with repentance comes obedience. Jesus told a crowd of listeners that salvation and obedience go hand in hand: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46). Jesus then goes on to differentiate the one who builds his house on the sand from the one who builds his house on the rock, that is, the man who not only hears the words of Jesus, but does them, too.

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). There is nothing “cheap” about grace! got?



Matthew 10:24-39

The Meaning of Discipleship

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!

26 “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.


That’s what the majority of churches teach that all one has to do is "accept Jesus" and you will experience the abundant life and everything will be great and God will bless you with the desires of your heart. And we wonder why the " church" in America has no influence in our culture. The fact is Jesus made it hard to follow Him and said it might very well cost you your life, family, friends etc..... He said to count the cost before attempting to follow Him and many turned away from Him. In fact, Jesus said if the hate Me they will hate you and you will suffer persecution on My behalf. God’s word promises believers that they will face various trials but God will be there will you so that you might stand up under those trials. This easy believism in our culture has no effect on it whatsoever but those who count the cost and Jesus is their Lord will endure under hardship and He will sustain you. Most want to go to a church that makes them feel good, build up their self-esteem with the prosperity gospel, heath and wealth, name it and claim it false teaching that are prevalent on TV and many churches not only in the US but abroad. It’s a sad case how those teachers are leading people away from the Living God with their heresies.

hope this helps !!!

Under Israel's gospel of the kingdom, which Jesus was preaching in the 4 gospels, rewards are intricately linked to salvation, to be saved from hell, you need to do good works together with believing, and you will receive both salvation and rewards, as Jesus explained in the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Under the gospel of grace given to Paul for us in the body of Christ, salvation is a free gift, that is by belief apart from works. (Romans 4:5). But rewards are still based on good works (1 Cor 3). So in this case, salvation is separated from rewards.

So yes, under that gospel, we would probably see many Christians in the bema seat of Christ only with salvation but very little rewards, which will certainly be an embarrassment. (1 Cor 3:15)
 
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returntosender

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I`m quitting this site so this is the last you will hear from me. I answer you now because I truly care about you as I do all the brethren.

The garment is the righteousness of Jesus which covers all those who believe. You can not gain it by works. It`s the blood on the door that causes the death angel to pass us by. That blood only comes from the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The righteous are scarcely saved and are only saved by the blood of Jesus which you apply to your door by surrendering to Him.

For this reason, I oppose those who promote works for salvation in all its forms.

You will be sorely missed. I hope you will reconsider. If you can't be convinced to stay. God bless on your path. I am sure you will be a blessing where ever you go.:cryingcat:
 
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TMarcum

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Are you saved when you're
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Called and Chosen
Called, Chosen and Faithful

Some believe once saved always saved, with some scripture to suggest this. Some believe they can lose salvation, with some scripture to suggests this. I do not wish to argue, debate over this, just your thoughts on the above question, whichever side you're on.



Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ

This is controversial topic, largely due to the complexity of salvation. But in the simplest form is not complicated at all.

Some believe being saved is a reference to our spiritual birth or being born again. Then some believe being saved is a reference to achieving salvation. Some believe being born again and achieving salvation is one in the same as being saved. Anyway, there is a lot to be said on the subject.

I personally believe they are not the same. I hold to the belief that once we are spiritually born again, then this starts the process of salvation. I do believe when we are born again, that we are filled with the holy spirit. But I believe as we grow in Christ, that we also grow in grace and faith. I believe the process ends in sealing our salvation in death.

But back to when are we saved? If you are referring to being saved as being born again, then this is a process in itself.

To be saved:
1) Called by God -
I believe the calling of God is administered via the gospel of Jesus. The gospel is defined as being the power of God unto salvation to anyone who hears (with the heart). The gospel of salvation was delivered by God, being 1st commissioned to John the Baptist. Then Jesus was the successor, then the apostles, and then the disciples of Jesus Christ.

2) We must believe -
Many put this step at 4 or 5. The reason being, most do not believe that a sinner person can have faith. Then the argument comes up that, the terms "to believe" and "having faith" are not the same thing. I agree with this idea in general terms, when referring to natural belief. But when Jesus says that we must believe in God in order to be saved. Then this is not referring to natural our belief. The only way we can believe in God is by hearing the preaching of the gospel of salvation. In bible text of the translated Greek word, "believe" (G4100) is the verb tense of the same words "belief" and "faith", which both are the exact same Greek word (G4102) used as a noun.

In order for a sinner to be saved, they must hear the gospel and in doing so, the working power of the gospel dispenses a substance called "faith". Faith is a spiritual gift of God administered by the hearing of the Gospel. When we are saved, we are still a sinner. Yet having faith that Jesus is the Son sent by God. Jesus also said that he that does not believe is condemned already (John 3:18). So Jesus does not condemn anyone. We are condemned because of our unbelief. And Jesus said that this is the condemnation; light is come into the world and men loved darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil (John 3:19).

But faith is a base substance. It can grow and it can decrease, even die. So this is how our faith is quenched is when we choose darkness over the light. James said that it is possible to have dead faith. This occurs when we don't take action, by choosing the light. We choose the light by the love of God and brotherly love. Through faith and with the love of God, then comes Hope. But if we choose darkness because our deeds are evil, then our faith dies. James said that faith alone cannot save us. James said faith is without works (Love, Hope, Repentance) is dead (James 2:17-20), being alone. Paul said, even if I have the faith to move mountains, and do not have Love, then I am nothing (1 Corinthians 13:1-2). But Paul said to abide in faith, hope, and charity (1 Corinthians 13:13).

3) Make a Choice -
A decision must be made. Here is the where the action takes place. Once we have heard the gospel and the dispensation of faith has been applied to our heart, then the spirit of God stirs us up inside. This is what happened at the day of Pentecost when Peter preached the gospel to the multitude. The bible says when they heard the preaching from Peter, they were pricked in their heart (Acts 2:37). They asked, what shall we do? Peter said that an action is required on your part. In order to receive the Holy Ghost, you must repent (Acts 2:38). Repentance is a change of the heart. A mind change to follow after Jesus through faith.

Jesus said you must believe and have faith. And everyone that does truth, comes to the light (John 3:21). We do truth and come to the light by repentance. But we have a choice to make. Another place Jesus said to make a decision. Either serve God or serve mammon. But you can't serve both. Either love one or hate the other and visa versa. (Matthew 6:24). Paul said; The Holy Ghost said, today if you hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, when God swore they would not enter into his rest. He said to take caution in case there be an evil heart in any of you in departing from the living God. So the scriptures make it all too clear. We must have faith. And by faith, we choose to follow after the light by works of love and hope. Otherwise, upon hearing his voice, our faith can be quenched out by choosing darkness.

Jesus said that the hour is now, that they that hear my word and believes in God has everlasting life and is passed from death unto life (John 5:24-25). So in order to pass from death to life, we must be dead to begin with, being a sinner. Then we hear his voice. When we hear his voice and then we must make a choice to come to the light. Those that make the choice to stay in darkness still hear the voice of Jesus from the grave. They hear loud and clear. Jesus said, those that are in the grave will hear his voice. And when they hear, they will come forth out of the grave. Those that have done good unto the resurrection of life. Those that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:28-29).

4) Justification -
This is when we come forth out of the grave. This is the instance, when we are born again. Here God performs an operation. This operation is taking place on a dead corpse. God takes out the old stony heart and gives us a new heart of flesh. And then he pours our his spirit on the new heart of flesh. This is when the transformation takes place. We pass from death unto life. This is our spiritual resurrection. This is our spiritual birth in the Kingdom of Heaven that Nicodemus inquired about to Jesus. Being born of the water and of the spirit is to believe that God sent his Son. This is the Living water that he offered the woman at the well. This can only come from the work that Jesus did on the cross. And that we must believe on him. Then are we buried by baptism unto his death. And as he was raised from the dead, that we should walk in newness of life.

Paul said that we must confess with our mouth, and believe in the heart .... and we will be saved (Romans 10:9). But the next verse explains why (Romans 10:10). When this transformation takes place, we will do this. We will do all the necessary things to be obedient to God, such as baptism, communion and so on. We will do this because we believe with the heart unto righteousness. This righteousness is the righteousness of God. All these outward manifestation of the flesh will occur as a result of a change in the heart. An example; when a gnat flies in your eye, then the eye is going to blink. There is nothing the body can do to prevent the eye from blinking. So we, by bringing forth fruit.

4) Sanctification -
Once we are born again, we must keep our flesh under subjection to the spirit. This is done by a continual renewing of the mind. Keeping our focus on his word by prayer and meditation. As we progress, then we are multiplied in grace. Our faith is made mature by adding to it virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity. When we sin, we confess our faults one to another and repent daily. As we grow, the Holy Spirit guides and directs us in all the paths of righteousness, and teaches us. As we learn, we continue to grow in grace. But one thing I have learned over my life is, God is not after sinless perfection. When we are born again, the blood of Jesus cleanses us of all past and future sins. When God sees us, he does not see our sinful flesh. He only sees the blood of his dear Son. But the sanctification process will keep our flesh under subjection, keeping us in good standing order with God.

5) Salvation -
Salvation is complete when we are sealed in death by our faith, through the Holy Spirit. At this point, the death is swallowed up in victory by the putting down of the flesh. By the same spirit will we be resurrected when the Lord comes again.
 
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