Ezekiel's prophecy (and the different perspectives)
- Thread starter mkgal1
- Start date
- Dec 28, 2016
- 5,559
- 3,921
- Country
- Canada
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
I thought God and Magog was after the millennial Kingdom. Just take a gander at this link @Douggg
Gog and Magog - What Is the Meaning of Revelation 20:8?
Gog and Magog - What Is the Meaning of Revelation 20:8?
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 28,777
- 3,419
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
The last rebellion of man, instigated by Satan, will include the Gog/Magog nations that will have taken part in the Ezekiel 38-39 event a thousand years earlier.
Upvote
0
Brian Mcnamee
Well-Known Member
Gog is the principality behind Magog the nation to the North most feel it is modern day Russia, Some things happen multiple times in scripture like the abomination of desolation where Atniochus Epiphannes certainly did it and then Jesus notes it is still to come. The Gog Magog of Ezekiel cannot be the Gog Magog of revelation because in Rev it is over on earth when that battle is over and in Ezekiel you have special guys marking bodies and they are burning the weapons for fuel for 7 years which shows a continuation on earth after that battle.
Upvote
0
Brian Mcnamee
Well-Known Member
Hi Gog Magog in Ezekiel is a separate event then Gog in Revelation. IN Ezekiel life continues on earth for at least 7 years for the special burial teams go out and they burn the fuel for 7 years. In Revelation as soon as Gog Magog surround the city and fire comes down from heaven that is it for this earth and the New Jerusalem comes down. Satan was bound for 1000 years and in Dan 7 we see the pompous one is the same as the beast in Rev 13. He is persecuting for a time times and half a time when the kingdom comes and is given to the son of man who is before the ancient of days. It says the pompous like the beast is given to the flame and the rest of the beasts have lost their dominion but have their lives prolonged for a season and a time. This is Satan's cohorts also being bound for 1000 years. When they are released they lead on last rebellion but never regain any dominion.
God Magog is like the abomination of desolation which happened with Antiochus Epiphanes and will happen again when the man of sin is revealed in the temple.
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Where do you get Russia? Attacking Israel for their cattle?
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 7,394
- 2,496
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Amillennialists believe that the thousand years refers to the time between the first coming and the beginning of Satan's little season just before the second coming of Christ. Is that what you believe? You said here that you "don't believe the thousand years in Revelation 20 is a timeline". What did you mean by that exactly?
Amillennialists don't believe the thousand years is literal, but they typically believe it refers to an actual period of time (period between the 1st and 2nd coming with Satan's little season in between).
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 7,394
- 2,496
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Why do you suppose that Gog and Magog are mentioned in Revelation 20:7-8? If Rev 19:17-18 referred to Ezekiel 39:17-20, as you believe, then I see no reason why Rev 20:7-8 would not relate to Ezekiel 38-39 as well in that case. You seem to be rather inconsistent in that regard. Do you think that you would interpret it this way if you looked at it objectively instead of with the assumption that premil is true?
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
One issue I have with this, I'm unable to grasp what that even means or what that might look like. And to be honest, I have zero desire to grasp what that means or looks like to begin with. But even if I did and eventually could grasp the meaning of that, I still could never see myself adopting that position ever. But not because I'm Premil. I'm guessing there are likely Amils that also agree, that they could never see themselves adopting this position either.
Have you missed the fact that Revelation 20 shows that there is a starting point and an ending point to this thousand years? How could anything involving years, that have both a beginning and an expiration, not involve a specific era of time? And the fact it involves a specific era of time, whether that specific era of time is meaning before the 2nd coming, or in the next age post the 2nd coming, how can none of this involve a timeline? Do any of the things recorded in Revelation 20:7-10, for example, happen before or during the thousand years? Of course they don't. Why don't they? Because there is a timeline of events involved, obviously.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Apr 18, 2020
- 2,972
- 913
- Country
- South Africa
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Yes there is a big difference between what we read in Ezekiel regarding the destruction of Gog/Magog and what we read in Revelation about the destruction of Gog/Magog.
The 3rd possibility is that Gog/Magog is only symbolic of all nations, as we read in Zechariah chapters 12-14 a prophecy about all nations gathering against Jerusalem and the LORD setting His feet on the Mount of Olives and fighting against those nations at that time.
However, in Ezekiel Gog/Magog comes against a people who had been gathered from all the lands where they had been scattered, into the land of their fathers, a people who had become one nation under "David My servant", a people that had experienced a prolonged period of peace, safety & prosperity, living in unwalled villages, following this restoration of this people to God and to land.
To date there is no equivalent in history to what is being described in Ezekiel chapters 36-39. If I'm Amil I could and might understand the whole prophecy in Ezekiel to be talking figuratively about Christ gathering His people out of the nations into His spiritual Kingdom. Then it would be a done and dusted thing and there would be no confusion. BUT I don't believe it's all figurative and I do believe that the millennium of Revelation 20 is literal, so I can't use a blanket-interpretation which I could believe.
Personally, as you saw in those images, I've seen the seeming similarities between Ezekiel and Revelation in the overall picture, but I've also seen the discrepancies in the details, and because it once again proves to me that I don't understand all things, I shelved trying to understand Ezekiel long time ago. "Ezekiel's temple" is another complicated matter that I cannot make head or tail of, so.. I'm just ready for the day someone gives me an explanation of Ezekiel and Gog/Magog that satisfies me as being Biblical and sound. No one's ever satisfied me, and I can't satisfy myself because the little I think I understand also shows me that it's just the tip of the iceberg.
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I have already explained in other posts in other threads, maybe this thread as well, that the ones being surrounded in Ezekiel 38-39 are not the ones being surrounded in Revelation 20:7-9. The ones being surrounded in Ezekiel 38-39, when they are being surrounded God is still hiding His face from the ones being surrounded. In Revelation 20:7-9, the fact the text indicates it is the camp of saints being surrounded, obviously God is not hiding His face from the ones being surrounded. How then can these be speaking of the same events?
Just because some of Ezekiel 38-39 appears to be paralleling Revelation 19:17-18, why does this have to automatically mean that so does some of Ezekiel 38-39 need to parallel Revelation 20:7-9 as well? And what about all the positions that see Ezekiel 38-39 meaning some ancient battle that has already been fulfilled? How do they explain Gog and Magog in Revelation 20? A position like that is even more bizarre than some apparently think mine is. Either way, a position such as I hold, or a position such as others hold, that Ezekiel 38-39 is meaning some ancient battle that has already been fulfilled, Ezekiel 39 records Gog and his multitude as dead and buried, yet Revelation 20 has Gog and Magog still in the picture, and that Revelation 20:7-9 hasn't even been fulfilled yet.
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 7,394
- 2,496
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I appreciate your honesty here. I wish all premils were this honest. There are a number of premils who use Ezekiel 36-39 and 40-48 as one of the main pillars of their doctrine. Why anyone would want to use an undeniably difficult to interpret portion of scripture as part of the foundation of their doctrine is beyond me.
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Gog and Magog are symbols of the spiritual attack on the church in the end. Armageddon is not literal. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal says, Paul.
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 7,394
- 2,496
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Yes, and I told you I don't see that and then I asked you to show me that and you tried, but I still don't see it.
Can you try one more time to show me where in Ezekiel 38-39 it says something about unsaved people being surrounded? Please quote the verses where you think it says that and highlight the parts that you think say something about unsaved people being surrounded.
I see a description of Magog and other nations surrounding Israel after being brought back from exile, but that's all.
Because of the reference to Gog and Magog. I'm saying that from your futurist interpretation, it would be consistent to see Rev 20:7-8 as relating to Ezekiel 38-39 if Rev 19:17-18 relates to Ezekiel 38-39.
Your basis for thinking that Ezekiel 39:17-20 relates to Rev 19:17-18 is because of the similarities between the two. Well, there are similarities between parts of Ezekiel 38-39 to Revelation 20:7-9 as well. So, why not make that connection as well unless you just rule it out because of your assumption that premil is true?
I don't know. Ask them.
But, my guess would be that most likely they would see it as I do, which is that Gog and Magog figuratively represent "the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth" (Rev 20:8) and since it is referenced figuratively, there's no reason to assume it relates directly to Ezekiel 38-39.
If it does refer to an ancient battle then there should be some sort of historical documents to prove that, but I'm not aware of any. I see similarities to Acts 2, so I lean towards seeing it as figuratively referring to that, but I'm just not sure right now. Any time I see a prophecy talking about God pouring out His Spirit I immediately think of Acts 2. The fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 is described in Acts 2 and I think Ezekiel 38-39 could be speaking of the same thing.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
As to this land, apparently Amils don't take this to be meaning literal land in a specific region of the earth, such as in the middle east. What about anyone that takes this to be literal land? If one takes it to be meaning literal, what does one then do after 70 AD, the fact they are expelled out of this land? How does that square with the following?
Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
If literal land is meant, how were they fulfilling verse 25 once the events of 70 AD occurred? That verse indicates they shall dwell in this land forever, and not temporarily instead. It seems to me then, if the land meant is literal, this can't be fulfilled prior to 70 AD, but has to be fulfilled post 70 AD. And if that is the case, we have to keep this in mind when we are trying to interpret Ezekiel 38-39. We also have to keep in mind that 70 AD caused Jews to once again be led away captive into all nations, and that a little before mid century last century, Jews began returning to their land, literal land.
Upvote
0
Brian Mcnamee
Well-Known Member
distinction
in Ezekiel 38: 15 it is talking about gog being the nation to the far north; this northern distinction is repeated in chapter 39 an the LORD notes he has put hooks in their jaws to turn them to make this move. If you get a globe and find Jerusalem and point straight up North you will go through Moscow so that northern indicator is important. No the plunder desired does include cattle and many other items as well. The motive will be clear in the moment but it seems a food shortage is a possible reason. Russia also has signed mutual defense pacts with Syria Turkey, Iran and they all have troops in Syria right now. Perhaps an Israeli strike into that region is the trigger. We will have to wait and see.
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Something like that never even crossed my mind. But now that you brought it up, I can see some logic in this. I don't know if you are correct or not, but maybe food shortages could explain why cattle are mentioned---who knows?
Upvote
0
sovereigngrace
Well-Known Member
- Dec 9, 2019
- 9,042
- 3,450
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
This proves that we are looking at recaps. This also forbids Premil. That is why you have to dismiss it. Your approach to every end-time passage is: what must I believe that will not expose my beloved Premil. This is not objective interpretation. This is twisting Scripture to support your error.
You let the cat out of the bag in your first post:
"About the only thing I might disagree with in the images you provided, is that Ezekiel 38-39 is connected with Revelation 20:7-8, the fact that would not prove Premil since Ezekiel 38 only involves things in this age before the 2nd coming, and not after the 2nd coming instead."
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
I'm thinking the dry bones (and most of this prophecy) is still relevant mostly to old covenant Isaelites as it was given to Ezekiel as an overview of their future even though they were in captivity at the time (the prophecy offered both hope/life....or judgement/death).
This look at the earlier chapters, I think, is helpful:
"Video: Overview: Ezekiel 1-33 | BibleProject™" Video: Overview: Ezekiel 1-33 | BibleProject™
Upvote
0
Similar threads
