Sunday without services: how are you coping?

Hmmm! said:

You talking about art on church walls reminds me of a story the theologian NT Wright tells which shows that we can learn a lot from church art. He tells the story to illustrate his point that over the centuries Greek philosophy in particular Platonic dualism, in which the body is imperfect and dies whereas the soul is pure and continues after death, kind of hijacked the Christian idea of heaven. He mentions a very old cathedral near Rome where there are frescoes "quite explicitly about resurrection, skeletons coming up from the earth, being clothed with flesh and becoming human again. Contrast that with the Sistine Chapel (a later building), where you have this great heaven and hell scene. It is sort of assumed that heaven is a disembodied state where immortal souls go to live, and then it becomes very difficult for the word resurrection to be anything other than a rather flowery metaphor for that state. But the whole point is that (the resurrection skeletons) is what the Bible in the first three or four Christian centuries took for granted. We need to recapture that". The bracketed comments in the quote are mine.

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Mr Hmmm, That is very interesting as I had not know Nt Wright said we can learn a lot from Church art.

As God is the creator creating us, for us to create is also related to the creator as well, and Art be it in music, drawings, painted pictures, are always amazing.

Even Christmas lights, and things like this, most people do it for the beauty of it, sometimes I believe that Art is looked down and frowned apun, but if you look at the intent most of it is breath taking...

Even from creators who draw desolate abstracted art in my opinion is amazing just based on the creators mind alone, and the inspiration from which it came, thanks for talking with me about this a little more.

Seems you enjoy art as well, and that is a good thing. Creator creates creation that creates creations be it whatever it may. Some art turns people away, some art people find profoundly intruging be it from the Light, or even the darkness. I cant think of any artist right off hand but that is okay.

Hmmm! said:

I live in the UK and today I can either go to my church for individual prayer or listen to a live streamed service broadcast from the minister's home. Regulars services aren't permitted. These rules are likely to be relaxed for the Christmas week.

I haven't actually done either of these things during the lockdown. But I do take part in a Zoom Bible study meeting one weekday evening a week and I do some voluntary work for a food bank project my church is involved in.

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I have setup interactive ZOOM at my church so that mics are spaced strategically at various places in the sanctuary and the volume is tuned so that no matter where someone is seated or standing in the sanctuary - they can be heard over ZOOM by remote attendees. Also the attendees can speak into their mics at home - and be heard by those few who are attending in person at the church. Both the Bible study portion and the worship service are interactive.

So while attendance is well spaced and down to about 1/3 of the normal attendance in-person the overall zoom + in-person is equal to or greater than the pre-pandemic average. We also support "gridview" at the church for those that want to turn on their video cam at home so they can be seen in the sanctuary when they are asking a question, making a comment or making a prayer request.

All the other services are strictly ZOOM only. So then we have Sabbath School and Church on Saturday with an in-person option, but Vespers on Sabbath evening and Wednesday evening prayer meeting are only available over ZOOM.

So far we have had no one contract the pandemic virus at church even though one or two have attended in the past for a week or two where it is certain that they brought it with them from work or a social club they attend.

The social distancing and other precautions result in the fact that it did not spread to anyone over the course of this year. In general churches here are not the main vector for spreading the disease if they are only meeting for one hour and keep to the 6 foot distancing with careful use of masks/shields.

Agallagher said:

Glad you have been part of the forums like you have been, Hmmm.

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ok - so "aint no church on Sunday for me " either... but not for the same reason

I'm a 77-year-old introvert so I am staying HOME until I get a COVID-19 vaccine shot. I spend about 2 hours a day reading the Bible -- several translations -- and a book by a Christian author.

I also spend an hour a day hiking in the New Mexico wilderness, a.k.a. the glory of God's creation. "For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made." Romans 1:20a, NET

I have not been to church in several years, so it was no big change. But then again in my area, church is not closed down and is going on ( i will say i guess each church is making their own decisions though).

pescador said:

I'm a 77-year-old introvert so I am staying HOME until I get a COVID-19 vaccine shot. I spend about 2 hours a day reading the Bible -- several translations -- and a book by a Christian author.

I also spend an hour a day hiking in the New Mexico wilderness, a.k.a. the glory of God's creation. "For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made." Romans 1:20a, NET

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@pescador Do you have a night shots of the stars out there from where you traveled?

I'm basically a Hermit and an Outcast so I feel fine. As long as God is with me. God protected me from churches by giving me intense anxiety, perhaps the truth of facing each person is felt deeply in me and this is why I feel the way I feel about them. Instead he lavished me with the people that he knew would help me... mostly mystics and philosophers in the medium of books and the internet.

maybe you should try a new form of praying such as saying the eastern orthodox Jesus prayer or a simple prayer that The Cloud of Unknowing suggest such as "God" or "Yah". or practice not thinking when you're trying to understand something in the Bible and trying to hear what God will tell you it means.

Agallagher said:

Mr Hmmm, That is very interesting as I had not know Nt Wright said we can learn a lot from Church art.

As God is the creator creating us, for us to create is also related to the creator as well, and Art be it in music, drawings, painted pictures, are always amazing.

Even Christmas lights, and things like this, most people do it for the beauty of it, sometimes I believe that Art is looked down and frowned apun, but if you look at the intent most of it is breath taking...

Even from creators who draw desolate abstracted art in my opinion is amazing just based on the creators mind alone, and the inspiration from which it came, thanks for talking with me about this a little more.

Seems you enjoy art as well, and that is a good thing. Creator creates creation that creates creations be it whatever it may. Some art turns people away, some art people find profoundly intruging be it from the Light, or even the darkness. I cant think of any artist right off hand but that is okay.

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Our Church now offers Communion for those who don't attend mass. While masses are streamed it is difficult for me to focus in prayer during the mass because I know I am not really there.

Hmmm! said:

Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely need to do something differently because, although I believe in God and occasionally feel close to Him, I feel I need the sense of His presence much more often. Do you think it's possible to feel His presence constantly?

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That seems to be some of the main goals for some people. Even this horrible time of not always realizing he is with us is a special moment. Maybe he just wants to see what we will be like in such a condition.

Hmmm! said:

I live in the UK and today I can either go to my church for individual prayer or listen to a live streamed service broadcast from the minister's home. Regulars services aren't permitted. These rules are likely to be relaxed for the Christmas week.

I haven't actually done either of these things during the lockdown. But I do take part in a Zoom Bible study meeting one weekday evening a week and I do some voluntary work for a food bank project my church is involved in.

I've read quite a few Christian books and watched quite a few Christian talks and debates online during lockdown but my appetite for these is beginning to wane. I was also praying regularly but again I am finding this more difficult to do. There is this forum of course which has helped to keep me going, often through keeping me annoyed that other people don't agree with me!

So the effect lockdown is having on me is that I have let my self-discipline (I think the word "disciple" is related to "discipline") and self-motivation go to quite a large extent. Going to church was relatively easy because it was largely a matter of just getting there and sitting down, and it was nice to meet the people there. But it's just God and I now (I live alone).

I know that this is a great opportunity to learn how to be with God while I am alone and it's one that I may never get again. So I shoudt really try to make the best of it and turn my "prison cell" into a monastic environment.

It would be interesting to read how lockdown has affected other people's faith.

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What's been really helpful for me is an online Bible study course I'm doing. It's gives you the feeling you still are together with brothers and sisters. Also my church have decided to have short sermons every day with maximimum 8 people. It's a fairly small church so there hasn't been a problem to still attend church once a week, even it's small scale. I also write my own texts which I put on Youtube every now and then. Also we have a small prayer group, which meet on messenger one or two times per week. So it hasn't affected me that much, even I miss the Sunday mass.

Lost4words said:

I was never allowed in the church anyway. I think fleas were mentioned!

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Actually it was raising your leg against the ends of the pews on the way out that caused the ban.

Bob Crowley said:

Actually it was raising your leg against the ends of the pews on the way out that caused the ban.

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They did ask for a donation!

Hmmm! said:

That's probably enough to be going on with. Let me know when you've watched all the videos for these guys and I'll ask you some questions to test you

Can you recommend any good talks or books?

Edited to add a writer and speaker I really like, Philip Yancey.

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Thank you very much for the suggestions. Mc Grath has been a a favorite of mine for some time, and of course MT Wright and Yancey. I'll check your other recommendations, also.

Recently, I've been listening to Andy Stanley. He's not scholarly, not really in the same category, but I find his insightful. And, of course, Richard B Hays books and speeches.

Hmm said:

I live in the UK and today I can either go to my church for individual prayer or listen to a live streamed service broadcast from the minister's home. Regulars services aren't permitted. These rules are likely to be relaxed for the Christmas week.

I haven't actually done either of these things during the lockdown. But I do take part in a Zoom Bible study meeting one weekday evening a week and I do some voluntary work for a food bank project my church is involved in.

I've read quite a few Christian books and watched quite a few Christian talks and debates online during lockdown but my appetite for these is beginning to wane. I was also praying regularly but again I am finding this more difficult to do. There is this forum of course which has helped to keep me going, often through keeping me annoyed that other people don't agree with me!

So the effect lockdown is having on me is that I have let my self-discipline (I think the word "disciple" is related to "discipline") and self-motivation go to quite a large extent. Going to church was relatively easy because it was largely a matter of just getting there and sitting down, and it was nice to meet the people there. But it's just God and I now (I live alone).

I know that this is a great opportunity to learn how to be with God while I am alone and it's one that I may never get again. So I shoudt really try to make the best of it and turn my "prison cell" into a monastic environment.

It would be interesting to read how lockdown has affected other people's faith.

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All six of my one on one Bible studies are Zoom meeting and I do a zoom class. I only have two email Bible studies with Chinese student, these have dropped off due to the Government. I do have students teaching Chinese students, but that has been hard for them also. I sure Hope foreign college students will return, so I can have face to face classes with them again. There is very little word of mouth invitations for fellow foreign students that can grow a group.

Agallagher said:

@pescador Do you have a night shots of the stars out there from where you traveled?

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No I don't, but the Pleiades have been prominent recently. New Mexico has one of the darkest places on the planet for viewing the night sky.