This is freaking me out .

Arc F1 said:

I was with you right up until the Trump part. You know he's anti union right? It's the unions that keep these bad guys employed. They will defend a guilty cop with everything they have, even though they know he's guilty. In the union about the only way to get thrown out is to stand up for what's right.

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You're right about the police unions and police fraternal organizations.

But I recall no evidence about Trump being anti-union ...

A_Thinker said:

Do you not think that second-guessing the honesty of victims' family members is a bit ... off the scale ???

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As an observer I can be more objective. I don't think calls for mercy for heinous crimes are either justified, or honest.

It's worthy of note that most historically support the death penalty, even in states where it has been abolished. That's democracy fer ya.

OldWiseGuy said:

As an observer I can be more objective. I don't think calls for mercy for heinous crimes are either justified, or honest.

It's worthy of note that most historically support the death penalty, even in states where it has been abolished. That's democracy fer ya.

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Do you have evidence for this claim ?

Arc F1 said:

And nobody is held accountable. Not really any incentive to do better. My attitude is why I never get picked for jury duty.

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True. I had one request and it wasn't for the city. It was in the suburbs. I'm certain my voting record eliminates me from consideration for local juries.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

A_Thinker said:

Do you have evidence for this claim ?

Click to expand...

The death penalty in America has enjoyed the support of over 60 percent of citizens for decades, regardless of which political party is in power, although it does fall along ideological lines. This support has declined substantially only recently.

For a good overall picture search 'support for the death penalty'.

Conservative support has remained steady while liberal support is all over the place.

OldWiseGuy said:

The death penalty in America has enjoyed the support of over 60 percent of citizens for decades, regardless of which political party is in power, although it does fall along ideological lines. This support has declined substantially only recently.

For a good overall picture search 'support for the death penalty'.

Conservative support has remained steady while liberal support is all over the place.

Click to expand...

Per Gallup, American support for the death penalty dropped from 50% to 36% from 2014 to 2019.

A majority now prefer life imprisonment as an ultimate option.

The Christchurch shooter deserves to be executed. Execution is not barbaric.

Ancient of Days said:

@d taylor
"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that God created a universe/outer space." Untrue

“In the beginning(time) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(matter).”

The "heaven" IS SPACE, Where the sun, moon, stars, ARE located thousand and millions of miles away... He also said, "Let there be light" So he also created the sun, which he created for us to have light... Which is also in the Heaven that he created.

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All i have to say to you is go read Genesis 1 again, with out the satanic influence of science. Read actually what the Bible states in words.

Genesis
Chapter 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Science by itself is not satanic, but satan does use science to influence people. God created everything we see, very clear form Genesis...

OldWiseGuy said:

The death penalty in America has enjoyed the support of over 60 percent of citizens for decades, regardless of which political party is in power, although it does fall along ideological lines. This support has declined substantially only recently.

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According to this Pew Research article, support for the death penalty has steadily declined over the past few decades: U.S. support for death penalty ticks up in 2018

Went from 78% in favor in 1996 down to 54% by 2018.

Ancient of Days said:

Science by itself is not satanic, but satan does use science to influence people.

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If you're going to throw around "Satan" accusations, why stop with science? One could just as easily make the argument that Satan is using religion to influence people as well.

pitabread said:

According to this Pew Research article, support for the death penalty has steadily declined over the past few decades: U.S. support for death penalty ticks up in 2018

Went from 78% in favor in 1996 down to 54% by 2018.

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The wide swings are caused by liberals. Conservatives have been pretty constant in support of the death penalty. Liberal support will increase if murders, especially heinous murders, rise substantially.

Brightmoon said:

The USA had this myth that as long as we didn’t cause too much pain that executions were ok . The federal government has blown a hole in that myth by allowing painful deaths . That’s what made me freak out as Id allowed myself to fall for the myth . The death penalty is looking like more like sadist revenge than justice

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I'm not sure it's that simple.

Justice is life ... for life.

In it's latter years, the US has been trending towards mercy (i.e. no death penalty), rather than justice.

One would question the wisdom of such an approach, ... unless one also recognizes that God's tendency, as portrayed in the scriptures, ... is also towards mercy.

So ... the US is currently modeling after God in its approach towards criminality (i.e. sin), ... though, like God, we find it to be the more difficult path.

For one, the response of the criminalized to such a plan is, at best, mixed. Some (perhaps most) don't positively respond to such grace offered ... leaving us with prisons which are, perhaps primarily, warehouses of the reprobate.

But some do receive the gift of reformation ... and succeed in turning their lives around. There are, it is widely concluded, many too few for all of the expense and effort.

But, once again, to do so is to emulate the Heavenly Father, Who ultimately allowed His Son to die for the few who would receive the gift of grace, ... while most spurn the gift.

I think that capital punishment is rarely an issue of revenge, ... as it is rarely if ever that the wronged get to exercise vengeance. It is, more typically, an issue of justice, rather than grace.

Though, it is likely a true saying, that those most in need of grace for their own sins, ... are also those most apt to demand justice for the sins of others ...

Life imprisonment provides no recompense for victims, which should be it's main purpose. Therefore it's better to put those criminals to death before they add insult to injury.

A_Thinker said:

Per Gallup, American support for the death penalty dropped from 50% to 36% from 2014 to 2019.

A majority now prefer life imprisonment as an ultimate option.

Click to expand...

That may be bcause they think quick execution
is too good, they want more suffering imposed.

To be locked up for the rest of one's life, give a it thought.

I have not noted the name/s of the Sage/s of the
Talmud who mean,

No person can sin unless a spirit of folly, stupidity or insanity enters into them.

Acts of folly, stupidity and insanity.

Murder must be counted as insanity, surely,
if so, it should be treated as such.

Execution or lifetime in prison sounds more like,
out of sight out of mind.

But then I am not a judge either, thank God.

OldWiseGuy said:

Life imprisonment provides no recompense for victims, which should be it's main purpose. Therefore it's better to put those criminals to death before they add insult to injury.

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Killing someone doesn't undo the crime. As another poster said earlier, it really seems about revenge and not justice.

And then there is still the aforementioned issue of putting innocent people to death. I know you don't seem to care about that, but some of us do.

Brightmoon said:

The USA had this myth that as long as we didn’t cause too much pain that executions were ok . The federal government has blown a hole in that myth by allowing painful deaths . That’s what made me freak out as Id allowed myself to fall for the myth . The death penalty is looking like more like sadist revenge than justice

Click to expand...

What about the slow and psychological pain of being deprived of one's freedom for a lifetime with no chance of parole or being released? Compared with a swift and efficient execution I think the guillotine is more merciful by comparison. Yet I wouldn't argue on the basis of mercy or rehabilitation for imprisoning people. We know imprisoning people is going to cause pain, even if it's just for a short time. It will inflict pain in the mind of a criminal or in the body. Seems like the thing we should be least concerned about, because the point of imprisonment ultimately is justice.

What for instance is particularly unjust about executing someone like Brenton Tarrant? He killed fifty people and now will live in a life of relative comfort for the rest of his life. Why for instance is it wrong for the state to execute Orlando Hall, a man who raped a 16 year old girl and buried her alive?