JW wealth in new earth

Daniel Marsh

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Charles Taze Russell followed by Rutherford of the Watchtower(Jehovah's Witnesses) have been teaching that since 1881. Proclaiming the Lord’s Return (1870-1914) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

From the context of Zech 14:14 it is clear that the Jewish People in Jerusalem are only collecting the spoils of war from those who fought against them.

"
  • Jehovah a Refuge for Millions (‎3 occurrences)
    • No, for the prophecy says about this: “And the wealth of all the nations round about will certainly be gathered, gold and silver and garments in excessive abundance.” (Zech. 14:14)

      ...
      There will certainly be enough to sustain all who have looked to Jehovah for protection, until they can put things in order and operate in the earth according to God’s revealed will for that time.

    • w75 10/15 pp. 636-639 - The Watchtower—1975"

https://billyebrim.org/wealth-transfer/

Zechariah 14 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Day of Judgment
14 Look, the Lord has a special day of judgment coming, when the riches you have taken will be divided in your city. 2 I will bring all the nations together to fight against Jerusalem. They will capture the city and destroy the houses. The women will be raped, and half of the people will be taken away as prisoners. But the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go to war with those nations. It will be a real battle. 4 At that time he will stand on the Mount of Olives, the hill east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will split in half. Part of the mountain will move to the north, and part to the south. A deep valley will open up, from the east to the west. 5 You will try to run away as that mountain valley comes closer and closer to you. You will run away like the time you ran from the earthquake during the time of King Uzziah of Judah. But the Lord my God will come, and all his holy ones[a] will be with him.

6-7 That will be a very special day. There will not be any light, cold, or frost. Only the Lord knows how, but there will not be any day or night. Then, when darkness usually comes, there will still be light. 8 At that time water will flow continually from Jerusalem. That stream will split and part of it will flow east, and part of it will flow west to the Mediterranean Sea. And it will flow all year long, in the summer as well as in the winter. 9 And the Lord will be the King of the whole world. At that time all people will worship him as the only Lord with only one name. 10 And the whole land from Geba in the north to Rimmon in the south past Jerusalem will become a flat plain. The city of Jerusalem will stay in the same place, but it will be built high above the land around it. It will reach from the Benjamin Gate to the First Gate (that is, the Corner Gate) and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses. 11 People will move to Jerusalem because it will be a safe place to live. It will never again be destroyed.

12 But the Lord will punish the nations that fought against Jerusalem. He will send a terrible disease against them. Their skin will begin to rot while the people are still alive. Their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13-15 That terrible disease will be in the enemy camp, and all their horses, mules, camels, and donkeys will catch that terrible disease.

At that time they will be afraid of the Lord. Each man will grab his neighbor’s hand, and they will fight each other. Even Judah will fight against Jerusalem. This will happen even while armies from all the nations are surrounding the city. There will be much gold, silver, and clothing. 16 Some of the people who came to fight Jerusalem will survive. And every year they will come to worship the king, the Lord All-Powerful. They will come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters. 17 And if people from any of the families on earth don’t go to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord All-Powerful, no rain will fall on their land. 18 If any of the families in Egypt don’t come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters, they will get that terrible disease that the Lord caused the enemy nations to get. 19 That will be the punishment for Egypt, and for any other nation that does not come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters.

20 At that time even the harnesses on the horses will have the label, holy to the lord.[c] And all the pots used in the Lord’s Temple will be just as important as the bowls used at the altar. 21 In fact, every dish in Jerusalem and Judah will have the label, holy to the lord all-powerful. All the people offering sacrifices will come, take those dishes, and cook their special meals in them.

At that time there will not be any merchants buying and selling things[d] in the Temple of the Lord All-Powerful.
 

Daniel Marsh

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Another proof text that Jehovah's Witnesses has used in the past with me is Isa 60:9 in context the nations are going to Jerusalem to worship God. The Gold and other things they are bringing is to offer to the Lord, not to Christians.

Isaiah 60 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
God Is Coming
60 “Jerusalem, get up and shine![a]
Your Light is coming!
The Glory of the Lord will shine on you.
2 Darkness now covers the earth,
and the people are in darkness.
But the Lord will shine on you,
and his Glory will appear over you.
3 Then the nations will come to your light.
Kings will come to your bright sunrise.
4 Look around you!
See all the people gathering around.
Those are your sons coming from far away,
and your daughters are there beside them.

5 “At that time you will see your people,
and your faces will shine with happiness.
First, you will be afraid,
but then you will be excited.
All the riches from across the seas will be set before you.
The riches of the nations will come to you.
6 Herds of camels from Midian and Ephah
will cross your land.
Long lines of camels will come from Sheba.
They will bring gold and incense.
People will sing praises to the Lord.
7 People will collect all the sheep from Kedar and give them to you.
They will bring you rams from Nebaioth.
You will offer those animals on my altar,
and I will accept them.

I will make my wonderful Temple
even more beautiful.
8 Look at the people.
They are rushing toward you like clouds quickly crossing the sky.
They are like doves flying to their nests.
9 The faraway lands are waiting for me.
The great cargo ships are ready to sail.
They are ready to bring your children from faraway lands.
They will bring silver and gold with them
to honor the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel.

He has done wonderful things for you.
10 Children from other lands will rebuild your walls.
Their kings will serve you.

“When I was angry, I hurt you,
but now I want to be kind to you.
So I will comfort you.
11 Your gates will always be open.
They will not be closed, day or night.
Nations and kings will bring their wealth to you.
12 Any nation or kingdom that does not serve you
will be destroyed.
13 All the great things of Lebanon will be given to you.
People will bring pine trees, fir trees, and cypress trees to you.
These trees will be used for lumber
to make my Holy Place more beautiful.
This place is like a stool in front of my throne,
and I will honor it.[c]
14 In the past, people hurt you,
but they will bow down before you.
In the past, people hated you,
but they will bow down at your feet.
They will call you ‘The City of the Lord’s,’
‘Zion of the Holy One of Israel.’

15 “People hated you.
You were left all alone with no one passing through.
But I will make you great from now on.
You will be happy forever and ever.
16 Nations will give you what you need,
like a child drinking milk from its mother.
But you will ‘drink’ riches from kings.
Then you will know that it is I, the Lord, who saves you.
You will know that I, the Great God of Jacob, protect you.

17 “You now have copper,
but I will bring you gold.
You now have iron,
but I will bring you silver.
I will change your wood into copper
and your rocks into iron.
I will change your punishment into peace.
And those who punished you will be replaced with those who are kind to you.
18 There will never again be news of violence in your country.
People will never again attack your country and steal from you.
You will name your walls, ‘Salvation’
and your gates, ‘Praise.’

19 “The sun will no longer be your light during the day.
The light from the moon will no longer be your light at night.
The Lord will be your light forever.
Your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun will never go down again.
Your moon will never again be dark.
That’s because the Lord will be your light forever,
and the dark days of mourning will end.

21 “All your people will be good.
They will get the land forever.
They are the young plant in my garden[d]
that will grow to be a wonderful tree.
I made them with my own hands.[e]
22 The smallest family will become a large family group.
The smallest tribe will become a powerful nation.
When the time is right,
I, the Lord, will come quickly.
I will make these things happen.”
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Basically, JW's believes that while living on the new earth, they will inherit the wealth of the gentiles who were destroyed or something like that.

Maybe someone else can clear up any misunderstandings I have.
 
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Charles Taze Russell followed by Rutherford of the Watchtower(Jehovah's Witnesses) have been teaching that since 1881. Proclaiming the Lord’s Return (1870-1914) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

From the context of Zech 14:14 it is clear that the Jewish People in Jerusalem are only collecting the spoils of war from those who fought against them.

"
  • Jehovah a Refuge for Millions (‎3 occurrences)
    • No, for the prophecy says about this: “And the wealth of all the nations round about will certainly be gathered, gold and silver and garments in excessive abundance.” (Zech. 14:14)

      ...
      There will certainly be enough to sustain all who have looked to Jehovah for protection, until they can put things in order and operate in the earth according to God’s revealed will for that time.

    • w75 10/15 pp. 636-639 - The Watchtower—1975"

Wealth Transfer - Billye Brim Ministries

Zechariah 14 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Day of Judgment
14 Look, the Lord has a special day of judgment coming, when the riches you have taken will be divided in your city. 2 I will bring all the nations together to fight against Jerusalem. They will capture the city and destroy the houses. The women will be raped, and half of the people will be taken away as prisoners. But the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go to war with those nations. It will be a real battle. 4 At that time he will stand on the Mount of Olives, the hill east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will split in half. Part of the mountain will move to the north, and part to the south. A deep valley will open up, from the east to the west. 5 You will try to run away as that mountain valley comes closer and closer to you. You will run away like the time you ran from the earthquake during the time of King Uzziah of Judah. But the Lord my God will come, and all his holy ones[a] will be with him.

6-7 That will be a very special day. There will not be any light, cold, or frost. Only the Lord knows how, but there will not be any day or night. Then, when darkness usually comes, there will still be light. 8 At that time water will flow continually from Jerusalem. That stream will split and part of it will flow east, and part of it will flow west to the Mediterranean Sea. And it will flow all year long, in the summer as well as in the winter. 9 And the Lord will be the King of the whole world. At that time all people will worship him as the only Lord with only one name. 10 And the whole land from Geba in the north to Rimmon in the south past Jerusalem will become a flat plain. The city of Jerusalem will stay in the same place, but it will be built high above the land around it. It will reach from the Benjamin Gate to the First Gate (that is, the Corner Gate) and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses. 11 People will move to Jerusalem because it will be a safe place to live. It will never again be destroyed.

12 But the Lord will punish the nations that fought against Jerusalem. He will send a terrible disease against them. Their skin will begin to rot while the people are still alive. Their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13-15 That terrible disease will be in the enemy camp, and all their horses, mules, camels, and donkeys will catch that terrible disease.

At that time they will be afraid of the Lord. Each man will grab his neighbor’s hand, and they will fight each other. Even Judah will fight against Jerusalem. This will happen even while armies from all the nations are surrounding the city. There will be much gold, silver, and clothing. 16 Some of the people who came to fight Jerusalem will survive. And every year they will come to worship the king, the Lord All-Powerful. They will come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters. 17 And if people from any of the families on earth don’t go to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord All-Powerful, no rain will fall on their land. 18 If any of the families in Egypt don’t come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters, they will get that terrible disease that the Lord caused the enemy nations to get. 19 That will be the punishment for Egypt, and for any other nation that does not come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters.

20 At that time even the harnesses on the horses will have the label, holy to the lord.[c] And all the pots used in the Lord’s Temple will be just as important as the bowls used at the altar. 21 In fact, every dish in Jerusalem and Judah will have the label, holy to the lord all-powerful. All the people offering sacrifices will come, take those dishes, and cook their special meals in them.

At that time there will not be any merchants buying and selling things[d] in the Temple of the Lord All-Powerful.
They changed their understanding of Christ's presence and the timing of the beginning of the thousand year reign
 
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KingdomLeast

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It should be known that Charles Taze Russell was an early Christian Zionist, he believed and taught until his death that the Jews would return to their homeland and become a nation once again and that through them, all the nations will be blessed. He made many predictions based on scripture that did come true, but he never got to see as he died in 1916.

After he died Rutherford made some outlandish predictions about the Jews and when they didn't come to pass he discarded all the prophecies and began to teach replacement theology, transferring all the prophecies to his Jehovah's Witnesses. But it didn't apply to all Witnesses, but just to the 144,000.
 
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One thing JW's and watchtower overlooks is that the 144,000 are male Jewish virgins. Thus anyone of them who had children is ruled out. Any of them who are not Jewish or part of the Nation of Israel are ruled out. One must be single, male, virgin and Jewish.
 
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Charles Taze Russell followed by Rutherford of the Watchtower(Jehovah's Witnesses) have been teaching that since 1881. Proclaiming the Lord’s Return (1870-1914) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

From the context of Zech 14:14 it is clear that the Jewish People in Jerusalem are only collecting the spoils of war from those who fought against them.

"
  • Jehovah a Refuge for Millions (‎3 occurrences)
    • No, for the prophecy says about this: “And the wealth of all the nations round about will certainly be gathered, gold and silver and garments in excessive abundance.” (Zech. 14:14)

      ...
      There will certainly be enough to sustain all who have looked to Jehovah for protection, until they can put things in order and operate in the earth according to God’s revealed will for that time.

    • w75 10/15 pp. 636-639 - The Watchtower—1975"

Wealth Transfer - Billye Brim Ministries

Zechariah 14 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Day of Judgment
14 Look, the Lord has a special day of judgment coming, when the riches you have taken will be divided in your city. 2 I will bring all the nations together to fight against Jerusalem. They will capture the city and destroy the houses. The women will be raped, and half of the people will be taken away as prisoners. But the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go to war with those nations. It will be a real battle. 4 At that time he will stand on the Mount of Olives, the hill east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will split in half. Part of the mountain will move to the north, and part to the south. A deep valley will open up, from the east to the west. 5 You will try to run away as that mountain valley comes closer and closer to you. You will run away like the time you ran from the earthquake during the time of King Uzziah of Judah. But the Lord my God will come, and all his holy ones[a] will be with him.

6-7 That will be a very special day. There will not be any light, cold, or frost. Only the Lord knows how, but there will not be any day or night. Then, when darkness usually comes, there will still be light. 8 At that time water will flow continually from Jerusalem. That stream will split and part of it will flow east, and part of it will flow west to the Mediterranean Sea. And it will flow all year long, in the summer as well as in the winter. 9 And the Lord will be the King of the whole world. At that time all people will worship him as the only Lord with only one name. 10 And the whole land from Geba in the north to Rimmon in the south past Jerusalem will become a flat plain. The city of Jerusalem will stay in the same place, but it will be built high above the land around it. It will reach from the Benjamin Gate to the First Gate (that is, the Corner Gate) and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses. 11 People will move to Jerusalem because it will be a safe place to live. It will never again be destroyed.

12 But the Lord will punish the nations that fought against Jerusalem. He will send a terrible disease against them. Their skin will begin to rot while the people are still alive. Their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13-15 That terrible disease will be in the enemy camp, and all their horses, mules, camels, and donkeys will catch that terrible disease.

At that time they will be afraid of the Lord. Each man will grab his neighbor’s hand, and they will fight each other. Even Judah will fight against Jerusalem. This will happen even while armies from all the nations are surrounding the city. There will be much gold, silver, and clothing. 16 Some of the people who came to fight Jerusalem will survive. And every year they will come to worship the king, the Lord All-Powerful. They will come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters. 17 And if people from any of the families on earth don’t go to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord All-Powerful, no rain will fall on their land. 18 If any of the families in Egypt don’t come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters, they will get that terrible disease that the Lord caused the enemy nations to get. 19 That will be the punishment for Egypt, and for any other nation that does not come to celebrate the Festival of Shelters.

20 At that time even the harnesses on the horses will have the label, holy to the lord.[c] And all the pots used in the Lord’s Temple will be just as important as the bowls used at the altar. 21 In fact, every dish in Jerusalem and Judah will have the label, holy to the lord all-powerful. All the people offering sacrifices will come, take those dishes, and cook their special meals in them.

At that time there will not be any merchants buying and selling things[d] in the Temple of the Lord All-Powerful.
Just testing I can post here!
 
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Ratiocination

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One thing JW's and watchtower overlooks is that the 144,000 are male Jewish virgins. Thus anyone of them who had children is ruled out. Any of them who are not Jewish or part of the Nation of Israel are ruled out. One must be single, male, virgin and Jewish.
One thing Daniel and his warped sense of humour seems to overlook is that Satan is not a literal dragon, nor will he be confined in a literal pit with a literal key, nor will a woman be given literal wings to fly into the wilderness, nor will any literal seven headed wild beast do any but become a science experiment to study!
Come on! Revelation is a book of signs and symbols. A better question might be: What do the 144k represent??? Is it a literal number??? Do they have anything to do with Jesus kingdom???

What do these symbolisms represent scripturally???
 
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One thing JW's and watchtower overlooks is that the 144,000 are male Jewish virgins. Thus anyone of them who had children is ruled out. Any of them who are not Jewish or part of the Nation of Israel are ruled out. One must be single, male, virgin and Jewish.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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144, 000 are viewed to be humans resurrected to heavenly creatures to serve as Kings and priests in the New Jerusalem

Why refer to male sex, virgins, of the tribes of Israel?

It is a good point to say they were resurrected. That gives the watchtower doctrine problems because they see the 144,000 as being pre-resurrection. Unless I am mistaken.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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One thing Daniel and his warped sense of humour seems to overlook is that Satan is not a literal dragon, nor will he be confined in a literal pit with a literal key, nor will a woman be given literal wings to fly into the wilderness, nor will any literal seven headed wild beast do any but become a science experiment to study!
Come on! Revelation is a book of signs and symbols. A better question might be: What do the 144k represent??? Is it a literal number??? Do they have anything to do with Jesus kingdom???

What do these symbolisms represent spiritually???

I know dragon is a figure of speech. But, I think the pit is literal. Yes, the 144,000 is literal since 12,000 is from each tribe.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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2. The 144,000 Sealed in the Apocalypse are Converts to Christ from the Gentile World.
These, then, who are sealed on their foreheads Revelation 7:3-4 from every tribe of the children of Israel, are a hundred and forty-four thousand in number; and these hundred and forty-four thousand are afterwards said in John to have the name of the Lamb and of His Father written on their foreheads, and to be virgins, not having defiled themselves with women. What else could the seal be which is on their foreheads but the name of the Lamb and the name of His Father? In both passages their foreheads are said to have the seal; in one the seal is spoken of, in the other it appears to contain the letters forming the name of the Lamb, and the name of His Father. Now these taken from the tribes are, as we showed before, the same persons as the virgins. But the number of believers is small who belong to Israel according to the flesh; one might venture to assert that they would not nearly make up the number of a hundred and forty-four thousand. It is clear, therefore, that the hundred and forty-four thousand who have not defiled themselves with women must be made up of those who have come to the divine word out of the Gentile world. In this way the truth of the statement may be upheld that the first fruits of each tribe are its virgins. For the passage goes on: These were brought from among men to be a first fruits to God and to the Lamb; and in their mouth was found no guile, for they are without blemish.

CHURCH FATHERS: Commentary on John, Book I (Origen)
 
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