WESTERN Rite kind of hokey?

Justin-H.S.

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If Fr Julian Overbeck “revived” the western rite in the 1800s, how do we know that’s what was being done in England pre-schism?

I admit to not knowing much about it, but it seems like it was a dead rite until less than 200 years ago.

Were there manuscripts on how it was done that were recently discovered?
 

Lukaris

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I often wonder if some ongoing Protestant service forms could actually be significantly preserved & modified to be Orthodox? That is the most important issue really.

One thing positive from my vague memory of Protestant worship in my youth was the conclusion of Sunday service on Pascha ( Easter) was hearing Christ the Lord is Risen Today:

Christ the Lord is risen today

It really is an inspiring & basically theologically sound ( I think) hymn. Other aspects of Protestant worship will need additions with no modifications allowed such as the Chrysostom prayer before communion & the sacrament itself. I would think Luther’s: A Mighty Fortress... is probably acceptable.

Original Apostolic Orthodox Churches of the Sts. John Chrysostom, Basil liturgies must remain untouchable. Otherwise, perhaps valid liturgy could be developed within some Protestant groups like High Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.

These are desperate & challenging times; the faith may need to be brought to people more so than individuals who need to climb Mt. Ararat to become Orthodox.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I wish there were more WR parishes and that it was more accepted in Orthodoxy.

maybe it will be someday. I know a lot of folks who are for it.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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What’s interesting is that there is a western rite in the first place, so I suppose it’s whatever rite the Bishop of Rome prescribed prior to the schism.

Perhaps, one day the Chinese or Japanese Orthodox Churches could develop a far-eastern rite?

 
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AMM

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What’s interesting is that there is a western rite in the first place, so I suppose it’s whatever rite the Bishop of Rome prescribed prior to the schism.

Perhaps, one day the Chinese or Japanese Orthodox Churches could develop a far-eastern rite?

Good point about the Far East. Historically the rites were much more localized than they are now (although they shared common elements and structure)
 
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Phronema

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If Western Rite was traditionally done under the Bishop of Rome and the West, who/where does Western Rite Churches get their chrism from since there is no longer an Orthodox Bishop of the West?

Antiochian Archdiocese, or ROCOR I believe since they are the parent jurisdictions.
 
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ArmyMatt

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If Western Rite was traditionally done under the Bishop of Rome and the West, who/where does Western Rite Churches get their chrism from since there is no longer an Orthodox Bishop of the West?

Antiochian Archdiocese, or ROCOR I believe since they are the parent jurisdictions.

this.
 
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Hermit76

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If Western Rite was traditionally done under the Bishop of Rome and the West, who/where does Western Rite Churches get their chrism from since there is no longer an Orthodox Bishop of the West?
Well, eventually it all came under Rome... One way or the other.
 
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rusmeister

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My own thoughts have been over wondering why it is needed. I have a general suspicion of people reviving stuff that the Church hasn't used or needed for a thousand years just because people "feel like it". It's the same basis I object to the idea of deaconesses. The fact that something once existed for a good reason is not sufficient reason to restore it, and can be dangerous - on deaconesses, they are much more dangerous than helpful in a world where we don't baptize people naked, and with rampant feminism seeking to deny and eliminate the God-established division of the sexes. On WR, the chief danger, insofar as it could be one, would be in using Roman forms in a world where ecumenism without genuine unity in the Holy Spirit is fashionable, and it could be used to ramp up demands for a false unity. I accept that everything done in the WR Liturgy is pious and not against Orthodox forms. I just have to ask why people think they NEED it, and the response of "feeling comfortable with it" doesn't satisfy me. I remain skeptical, and lean towards accepting what has been preserved, rather than seeking anything for my comfort. I don't accept that the preserved EO Liturgies are like climbing Mt Ararat or Everest, that is, so horribly difficult and frightening vis-a-vis WR. We already have pews to make people feel comfortable, which I think have real and negative effects on worship.

Of course, I'm open to hearing other reasons.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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Antiochian Archdiocese, or ROCOR I believe since they are the parent jurisdictions.

Sounds like gerrymandering because neither of those jurisdictions are inherently “Western.”

The answer is, there no longer is an Orthodox Bishop of the West except Eastern Orthodox bishops residing in the west or western converts to EO. There is no organic Orthodox Bishop of the West as historically understood.

If there is Orthodoxy in the West, it’s due to EO immigrants or missions and neither of them were doing WR liturgies were they?

WR still sounds like a Larp.
 
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