At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

zoidar

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That`s what the man did. His problem was in not wearing the garment provided by the King.

What is the meaning of the Parable of the Wedding Feast? | GotQuestions.org

... the Bible does not say that the King provided the wedding garments.

BNR, that's what I was going to say: "where does the Bible say the king provided the clothes?"

Rick, not that it's a dumb explanation at all. I have always wondered what is meant by the man not wearing the right clothes, but how do we come to that the king provided the garments? Was that a Jewish custom that the father of the family provided garments for the wedding?

Edit: It says it was an ancient oriental custom for kings to provide garments, but I haven't found any good sources on that. Do you got something?
 
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zoidar

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Yes the atonement is sufficient for all(the world) but only efficient for some ie. (the elect). :) Those are the ones He predestined in Ephesians 1 and Romans 8.

hope this helps !!!

In what way do you mean it's sufficient for the reprobate? How is it sufficient if Jesus didn't bear their sins?
 
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RickReads

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How are you telling me what the Bible says when I’m directly quoting what was actually written? Your not telling me what the Bible says because the Bible does not say that the King provided the wedding garments. Providing a commentary especially from gotquestions.org is completely worthless. Anybody can post anything they want on that website. My 7 year old daughter can post on there all day long.

"and everything is ready." That`s all I can tell you.

Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary
  • Wedding-garment garment worn at a wedding
 
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RickReads

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BNR, that's what I was going to say: "where does the Bible say the king provided the clothes?"

Rick, not that it's a dumb explanation at all. I have always wondered what is meant by the man not wearing the right clothes, but how do we come to that the king provided the garments? Was that a Jewish custom that the father of the family provided garments for the wedding?

Edit: It says it was an ancient oriental custom for kings to provide garments, but I haven't found any good sources on that. Do you got something?

I`m not going to trace it down just to prove a point. If you want to do it, it`s a Sociology topic. You need a resource on weddings in ancient Israel. It was customary for the host to pay for the wedding garments.
To be specific it would have part of the bride-price. Do your friends expect their groomsmen to rent their own tux and the bridesmaids to pay for their own dresses? This custom was more important in ancient times than it is today. Debating it is weak sauce.
 
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Studyman

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Can you do that without God`s help?

What foolish question. If I am Lost, and go to the God of the Bible to show me the way, and He shows me and I believe Him, did I find my way without God?
 
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RickReads

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What foolish question. If I am Lost, and go to the God of the Bible to show me the way, and He shows me and I believe Him, did I find my way without God?

A lot of people think you can get saved without God's help. With that in mind, I don`t think the question is foolish at all.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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What foolish question. If I am Lost, and go to the God of the Bible to show me the way, and He shows me and I believe Him, did I find my way without God?
You came to Him in your example by His grace.

John 6:44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:65, "And He was saying, ‘For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.’"

hope this helps !!!
 
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Studyman

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Galatians 3:12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

It is a common practice of religious men to take a verse here and there from Paul and use it to promote popular religious doctrines and traditions of the land. Peter warns us of this. I'm hoping you might reconsider your understanding of these verses, as they support my statement, they don't condemn it.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth (HIS) righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Regarding the Scriptures you posted, I am hoping to have a short unbiased discussion of their content.

What was to lead the Jews to the Lords Christ, the Lamb of God? The knowledge and acceptance of God's Laws? Or the knowledge and acceptance that they have lived contrary to them?

I would say if one were to consider the first part of Gal. 3, they would find the latter as the truth of this chapter.

Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

If you could answer this question in a simple manner as you replied to my comment, that would be great. "Who does the Holy Scriptures teach that God gives HIS Spirit to? The repentant? Or the unrepentant?

In my understanding the answer would be "the repentant". And what must happen before the Spirit of God can rest on me? I must receive atonement/forgiveness, Yes? Is this not a true answer?

And before the Christ came, how was atonement achieved? When a man sinned, what did Moses say must happen before this man could be justified? Did Moses say "if a man sins, let him keep the Sabbath Holy, and his sins will be forgiven? Did Moses say, "if a man sins he must Love his neighbor as himself, and his sins are forgiven"?

No brother, here is what Moses said was required before a man could be justified "before the Christ came"

Lev. 4:17 And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail.

18 And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

19 And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

This is the law that Abraham didn't have, that was "ADDED" 430 years later to God's Laws that define sin, "Till the Seed should come".

This is what Paul and the Jews were "locked under" until "Faith" in the blood of the Lord's Christ came. These are the "Works of the Law" the Jews were still bewitching the Gentiles with because they didn't believe in the Justification of sin through Faith in Jesus, rather, justification by the temporary sacrificial, ceremonial "Works" of the Levitical Priesthood.

"24 So the law (Of justification) was our guardian until Christ came (Lamb of God) that we might be justified by faith. (Not by works of the Law of atonement "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes, Commandments and judgments.)

Galatians 3:12 The (Works of the) law (Of atonement) is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Does what? Purchase their atonement by bringing an animal to the Levite Priest.

But the repentant new man, who no longer rebels and rejects, but of his own free will, submits to the Righteousness of God, regardless of what the religions of the land preach, this man is justified.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (Lawlessness)

So then in truth, Paul is teaching that when we find the Lord's Christ:

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (old man crucified)

This is the Gospel he taught.
 
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Studyman

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A lot of people think you can get saved without God's help. With that in mind, I don`t think the question is foolish at all.

For me your question came out of nowhere because I never implied, suggested or otherwise said Salvation could be had without God and His instruction. The post you replied to mentioned the free will submission to God's instruction as Jesus Himself God wants.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


How is that trying to be saved without God's help?
 
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Studyman

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You came to Him in your example by His grace.

John 6:44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:65, "And He was saying, ‘For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.’"

hope this helps !!!

And according to the Holy Scriptures, who does the God of the Bible give to HIS Son? Those who repent and submit to the righteousness of God?

Rom. 10:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: (This would also include the religions of this world as well, yes) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Eph. 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


Or those who call Him Lord, Lord, but practice lawlessness?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I don't believe the whole Bible supports the popular "Holy Lottery" doctrine, defined as God randomly picking winners and losers based on invisible criteria having nothing to do with free will. I know this places me in the path less traveled, but it seems the Scriptures support men making choices in this life, and then being judged by their choices.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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And according to the Holy Scriptures, who does the God of the Bible give to HIS Son? Those who repent and submit to the righteousness of God?

Rom. 10:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: (This would also include the religions of this world as well, yes) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Eph. 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


Or those who call Him Lord, Lord, but practice lawlessness?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I don't believe the whole Bible supports the popular "Holy Lottery" doctrine, defined as God randomly picking winners and losers based on invisible criteria having nothing to do with free will. I know this places me in the path less traveled, but it seems the Scriptures support men making choices in this life, and then being judged by their choices.
And who has said God does anything randomly without a purpose, design and a reason ?

Isaiah 14:24
The LORD of Hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand

Isaiah 46:10
I distinguish the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come, saying: 'My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.'

Isaiah 55:9
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

Job 23:13
But He is unchangeable, and who can oppose Him? He does what He desires.
 
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Studyman

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But, sinners hate God and choose only idols left to themselves.

You mean like creating images of God in the likeness of some handsome man, or creating their own Sabbaths and High Days while rejecting the Sabbaths and Feasts of the Christ, all in His Name?

Only after God saves a sinner can they see the true Christ and desire him. We are saved by grace before we can believe.

But Jesus says;

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, (First) ye shall all likewise perish.

I would remind you of the examples the Christ had written for our admission. In these examples, the Blood of the Lamb was shed for Israel while they were yet in Egypt. (Sin) But as Paul says in 1 Cor. 10, "With many of them God was not well pleased, for they were overthrown in the Wilderness".

How were they overthrown if the Blood of the Lamb was already shed for them? The God of the Bible tells us why.

Duet 32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Paul tells us;

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (Like the examples of men "saved by grace" that refused to follow the "Way of the Lord")

I think this is important stuff.
 
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Studyman

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And who has said God does anything randomly without a purpose, design and a reason ?

Isaiah 14:24
The LORD of Hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand

Isaiah 46:10
I distinguish the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come, saying: 'My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.'

Isaiah 55:9
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

Job 23:13
But He is unchangeable, and who can oppose Him? He does what He desires.

I agree. All His Words are Spirit and Truth as HE says.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

So you didn't answer my question. Who would God give to the Savior? Those who chose death, or Life?

BTW, nice salmon. Is that a Pacific? Looks too big for the Great Lakes.
 
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Dave L

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You mean like creating images of God in the likeness of some handsome man, or creating their own Sabbaths and High Days while rejecting the Sabbaths and Feasts of the Christ, all in His Name?



But Jesus says;

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, (First) ye shall all likewise perish.

I would remind you of the examples the Christ had written for our admission. In these examples, the Blood of the Lamb was shed for Israel while they were yet in Egypt. (Sin) But as Paul says in 1 Cor. 10, "With many of them God was not well pleased, for they were overthrown in the Wilderness".

How were they overthrown if the Blood of the Lamb was already shed for them? The God of the Bible tells us why.

Duet 32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Paul tells us;

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (Like the examples of men "saved by grace" that refused to follow the "Way of the Lord")

I think this is important stuff.
Important? Yes. But damaging unless understood properly.
 
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DaveM

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Are you saved when you're
Called
Called and Chosen
Called, Chosen and Faithful

Some believe once saved always saved, with some scripture to suggest this. Some believe they can lose salvation, with some scripture to suggests this. I do not wish to argue, debate over this, just your thoughts on the above question, whichever side you're on.



Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ


I never new I was lost until I got saved.....I knew I was saved when I was given a new heart, I saw real change in my life, I am no longer enslaved to sin... it was not a moment, but over time I realized all this
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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I agree. All His Words are Spirit and Truth as HE says.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

So you didn't answer my question. Who would God give to the Savior? Those who chose death, or Life?

BTW, nice salmon. Is that a Pacific? Looks too big for the Great Lakes.
Yes the salmon was caught in a River in California, it weighed in at 51 lbs :)

Those He predestined, His elect.
 
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