Is "socialism" a scare word in America?

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gaara4158

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Not at all. Classism is definitely not a characteristic of either Conservatism or Libertarianism.
Class consciousness isn’t classism. It’s the realization that some people belong to a class that works, and others belong to a class that profit from the labor of the former. This is unavoidable under capitalism. You can only feign ignorance for so long.
 
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FireDragon76

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Socialism (by it's true definition), should be a "scare word".

If the question is whether or not both sides have "redefined" the term for political purposes, then I'd say yes.

Many on the left have redefined it to mean "What Denmark has"
Many on the right have used the term to describe anything that involves any form of social safety net.

Socialist states have led to some very poor outcomes, and is ultimately, a garbage ideology.

The problem is that in the contemporary context (for both the left and right), when they use the word "socialism" it's often in attempts to describe something that isn't actually socialism.

In reality, the 'socialism' debates in the US are largely centered around what degree of a mixed economy people are comfortable with.

The moment we adopted public services like fire departments, a military, police forces, and social security, we were no longer laissez faire capitalists, and adding a few additional services to that list wouldn't make us "socialists" by any stretch of the term.

Social democracy, what Denmark or Scandinavia historically has had, is a kind of socialism.
 
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mark46

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Social democracy, what Denmark or Scandinavia historically has had, is a kind of socialism.

"Social democracy" is NOT a kind of socialism.

This is where the debate in the US gets fuzzy. Most countries in Europe, certainly in Scandinavia have socialist parties. They are relatively small, minority parties. I know of none where the government is socialist. They are market democracies, some with freer markets than in the US.

Sure, there are parties that have more social programs than in the US. That is NOT socialism.

In the US, those who want more social programs are called "socialist". They are considered on the road to the socialism of Europe, where there is no socialism.

In the US, it disingenuous to use the threat of "socialism as a scare tactic. Few suggest socialism, similar to the situation in Europe.
 
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mark46

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Reform, of course. But the Pelosi-controlled House of Representatives would never vote against its majority's best interests like that.

Sure, we all want reform. Sure, there are those in the House who want much more. This has always been the case. Some want "reform"; some want to tear the status quo apart and start again.

Why do you believe that the majority of Democrats are not interest in reform. Why do you believe that a radical agenda can get a majority voter of the Senate, even if there were to be a Democratic majority. Personally, I don't think that any part of the leftist agenda can be passed in the House. If it were, it would only be to demonstrate to the left how few votes there are in the Senate for their agenda.
 
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Ana the Ist

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It's reasonable to say Keynes and Marx are also major figures in economic theory - and that connecting Marx's ideology with Stalin's death lists is spurious

People, for some reason, think that it's some remarkable coincidence that these communist revolutions result in these murderous dictatorships

That's not really the case though....it's not a coincidence.

The only way to implement the kinds of changes in an economy is through total power....because that's the only way to force total cooperation.

There's no real plan to implement these changes....just a picture of what it will look like in the end.

Dictators fail inevitably....and cause the death and suffering of millions.

Dictators don't want to take the blame for their failures....so that's typically when the new scapegoating and state sponsored killings start.

That's what we should expect from communism every single time.
 
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Ana the Ist

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That's dualistic. The personal is political. Morality should be as relevant in the political sphere as the personal sphere.

It's not....and the idea that everything is political is postmodern nonsense.
 
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FireDragon76

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It's not....and the idea that everything is political is postmodern nonsense.

It's not "postmodern". Greed is as wrong in public life as in private life.
 
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Andrewn

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Social democracy, what Denmark or Scandinavia historically has had, is a kind of socialism.
Even though economic systems form a spectrum, it doesn't help the conversation to confuse "social liberalism," practiced in Canada and to some degree the US, "social democracy," practiced in Nordic countries, and "democratic socialism," which has become a scare word:

"The Nordic countries — Finland, Norway, and Sweden — are social democracies. They have constitutional representative democracies, extensive welfare benefits, corporatist collective bargaining between labor and capital that is managed by the state, and some state ownership of the economy. These institutions would be much preferable relative to the ones in our neoliberal wasteland. Yet even if labor is given a greater voice both at the workplace and in the management of the economy, capitalist control persists over the large majority of workplaces. In social democracies, public ownership of the main productive assets is limited in comparison to what it could be."

Democratic Socialism Isn’t Social Democracy
 
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Danthemailman

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I work with a woman who is convinced that the 'great reset' will result in something worse than socialism for the US and that the government will rob everyone in America of their retirement funds to contribute to this new economical order. o_O She is talking about withdrawing her retirement fund early and investing it in silver and gold.
 
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FireDragon76

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I work with a woman who is convinced that the 'great reset' will result in something worse than socialism for the US and that the government will rob everyone in America of their retirement funds to contribute to this new economical order. o_O She is talking about withdrawing her retirement fund early and investing it in silver and gold.

Not wise considering historically the stock market has tended to go up, not down, in the long term.

"The Great Reset" is about long-term sustainability, which in the long run will be better, not worse, for the economy.
 
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Danthemailman

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Not wise considering historically the stock market has tended to go up, not down, in the long term.

"The Great Reset" is about long-term sustainability, which in the long run will be better, not worse, for the economy.
Feel free to explain how you believe the 'great reset' will work out for the US and what our future economy look like as a result of it.
 
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Tom 1

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Not a scarce word but we should be fighting against it as much possible and in everyway possible.

Why? It would be interesting to read if you have a defence of that idea that doesn't involve hyperbole and generalisation.
 
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Tom 1

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Feel free to explain how you believe the 'great reset' will work out for the US and what our future economy look like as a result of it.

Sustainable benefits for a larger number of people, as opposed to burning up everything that can be used now as quickly as possible, which leads to wealth being increasingly concentrated in the hands of smaller and smaller groups of individuals.
 
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Albion

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Sure, we all want reform. Sure, there are those in the House who want much more. This has always been the case. Some want "reform"; some want to tear the status quo apart and start again.

Why do you believe that the majority of Democrats are not interest in reform.
Because it's the rich man's party now, and the members in the House can hardly be expected to kill the golden goose.
 
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FireDragon76

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Feel free to explain how you believe the 'great reset' will work out for the US and what our future economy look like as a result of it.

The "Great Reset" is a global initiative not confined to one country.

We need to deal with climate change and resource depletion or there isn't going to be a capitalist economy at all. You can't have capitalism in an apocalypse.
 
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FireDragon76

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It's beginning to look like "the great reset" is on its way to becoming a scare term on a par with "socialism," opposed by people who don't really know what it is.

And the "Green New Deal".
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I always enjoy a self-answering question. It makes for a short thread.

From the Truman quote in the OP. Socialism was a scare word 70 years ago and it still is (ref: just see any reference to socialism in popular political discourse today).

So, yes, it is a scare word in America. [/THREAD]

When everyone's taxes exceed 50 percent you'll know we have socialism. Nothing to fear...yet.
 
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