what will happen to the Jews?

Clare73

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Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed. This means his bloodline began in Isaac. But all who were ever circumcised were Abraham's covenant seed.
Do we find "Abraham's covenant seed" as distinct from "Abraham's seed" anywhere in the OT?
 
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RickReads

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Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed. This means his bloodline began in Isaac. But all who were ever circumcised were Abraham's covenant seed.

The Bible traces Abraham back to Adam. The linage is based on the eldest son. It`s a royal bloodline.
 
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Clare73

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The Vatican issued a statement a few years ago saying that "it is a mystery how the Jews are saved", thereby implying that many of them will be saved. Once again,
only God knows the fate of anyone and everyone, including I dare say probably hundreds of millions of Christians who simply assume that they are saved.
The apostles disagree with that.

Those who truly believe in Jesus Christ, truly love him, and walk in obedience can be assured with certainty that they are born again (1Jn 2:3, 3:14, 18-19, 21, 4, 5:13), because this assurance is founded upon:
the promises of salvation (Heb 6:17-18),
the inward evidence of the obedience (1Jn 2:3, 3:14; 2Co 1:12) on which the promises are conditioned (2Pe 1:4-5, 10-11; 1Jn 2:3, 3:14), and
the testimony of the Spirit witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God (Ro 3:15-16),
which Spirit is the deposit (down payment) guaranteeing our inheritance (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30;
2Co 1:21-22).

This certain assurance given by the Spirit may, or may not, come immediately with the rebirth (regeneration). However, because it is the Spirit, through obedience, who gives us to know the things that are freely given by God, it becomes our diligent duty, through obedience, to make our calling and election sure (2Pe 1:10), that our hearts may know peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, love and thankfulness to God, and strength and cheerfulness in obedience--which are the true fruits of assurance, rather than unrestraint and licentiousness, as the unregenerate mind assumes will be the consequences of assurance of salvation.
.
 
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Dave L

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Was it a birthright for circumcised Ismael?

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

So it is not a birthright. Abraham excommunicated him which meant none of his children were included in the clan either.
 
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Clare73

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“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)
So "Abraham's covenant seed" and "Abrahams seed" are the same (equivalent).
But the covenant shows it is not a birthright unless they are circumcised.

So was it (the equivalent two) a birthright for circumcised Ishmael?

“So it is not a birthright. Abraham excommunicated him which meant none of his children were included in the clan either.
Because Abraham's seed was reckoned through Isaac.
Ishmael had nothing to do with Messiah.

Was anything a birthright for Ishmael?
.
 
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Dave L

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So "Abraham's covenant seed" and "Abrahams seed" are the same (equivalent),
But the covenant shows it is not a birthright unless they are circumcised.

So was it (the equivalent two) a birthright for circumcised Ishmael?


I can't make sense out of this.
.
Birth has nothing to do with it.
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:12–13 (KJV 1900)
 
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chad kincham

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Hi Chad. I agree with some of your comments, but my posting was meant to be an explanation of the role the Jews have played rather than a Bible lesson. The role they have played, since the Garden of Eden I might add, was the role our Heavenly Father chose for them. Insofar as the Bible, Jesus Christ was meant to be a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock for them. Their eyes were darkened to Him being their Messiah on purpose. Why? As Romans11:31 explains, Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy have obtained mercy. It was God's plan for my people to be blinded to the truth of Christ, and will He now destroy them all for their nonbelief? No, our merciful Father told us in verse 25 that He did not want us to be ignorant of this mystery. Oh, the wisdom and knowledge of God is unsearchable. To finish, what will happen to the Jews? They will all be taught of God in the millennial day, which is the 7th day, which is about to begin, in my humble opinion.

Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved

Israel hardened their own hearts, God didn’t purposely blind them, but knew what they would do and used that for His purpose.

Here’s why they stumbled:

Rom 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.

Rom 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Rom 9:33 as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

And...

Rom 10:1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Rom 10:3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So I reject reformed dogma which actually has God deliberately blinding people, even His own elect nation of Israel, His bride.

They blinded themselves.

A big reason they rejected their own Messiah who originally came onky for them, is because they focused on scriptures that say Messiah will set up an earthly kingdom,which would mean defeat of their Roman oppressors, and missed where He will be cut off in death for our sins.

Another reason they rejected their own Messiah and killed Him, is they resisted the Holy Spirit, said Stephen.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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You are not biblically Jewish, but traditionally Jewish. Christ abolished unbelieving physical Jews and unbelieving physical Israel when he abolished circumcision on the cross.

Incorrect.

The new covenant is still with genetic Israel, aka, the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and we gentiles have to be grafted onto their covenant, by faith, per Romans 11.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

God has not forsaken national Israel:

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Scripture after scripture in prophetical Old Testament books, says God will gather Israel from all over the world where He scattered them, bring them back to the land He gave them, and they will remain there forever.

Indeed, when Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, He returns to Mount Olive from where He ascended, and He’s there to save Jerusalem from total destruction.

He destroys the armies of the nations that are attacking Jerusalem.
 
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chad kincham

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The fate of the Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and agnostics and atheists will be decided by God Almighty and not by Rev. Jeffress, nor by anyone on this website.

And the Bible says what the fate is of everyone who rejects Jesus is. The lake of fire.

Jesus said He’s the ONLY way to the Father John 14:6.

He said all who reject Him are damned. John 3:18.

In the case of Islam, which teaches God has no Son, the Bible says He who has the Son has life, and who has not the Son, has neither Father (Allah to Muslims) or the Son, and has no life.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

BTW that makes Islam an antichrist religion:

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
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parousia70

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Scripture after scripture in prophetical Old Testament books, says God will gather Israel from all over the world where He scattered them, bring them back to the land He gave them, and they will remain there forever.

So this must take place after the millennium, after the earth is burned up and replaced with a new earth, since any people regathered back to the land before that time will in fact not "remain forever", as the entire earth is burned and replaced 1000 years later.

In order to "remain forever" the regathering must not take place until the new earth arrives.

Indeed, when Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, He returns to Mount Olive from where He ascended, and He’s there to save Jerusalem from total destruction.

Jerusalem is not destroyed along with the entire heavens and earth when it all burns at the end of the millennium?

Where is that taught??
 
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James Honigman

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You are not biblically Jewish, but traditionally Jewish. Christ abolished unbelieving physical Jews and unbelieving physical Israel when he abolished circumcision on the cross.
Thanks Dave, it's good to know you know more about me, including what my private parts look like, than I do.
 
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Clare73

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Christ abolished unbelieving physical Jews and unbelieving physical Israel when
he abolished circumcision on the cross.
Circumcision placed the seed of Jacob (Israel) in the Abrahamic covenant of grace.

As circumcision was a sign that one stood in covenant relationship with God, so water Baptism is the parallel NT sign that one stands in covenant relationship with God in the covenant of grace (Col 2:11-12).

Jesus didn't abolish circumcision itself, he abolished it as a sign of covenant relationship with God.
.
 
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Basil the Great

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Incorrect.

The new covenant is still with genetic Israel, aka, the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and we gentiles have to be grafted onto their covenant, by faith, per Romans 11.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

God has not forsaken national Israel:

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Scripture after scripture in prophetical Old Testament books, says God will gather Israel from all over the world where He scattered them, bring them back to the land He gave them, and they will remain there forever.

Indeed, when Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, He returns to Mount Olive from where He ascended, and He’s there to save Jerusalem from total destruction.

He destroys the armies of the nations that are attacking Jerusalem.
I am well aware of what the Bible says, but the Bible says many things, my friend. It also says in the Numbers 23:19 that God is not a man. With such a verse in the Hebrew Scriptures, can we totally blame the Jews for not accepting Jesus as God? After all, Numbers does not say that God is not a man now, but that He will become one when the Messiah arrives on Earth. No, it simply says that God is not a man. Once again, the Bible says many things.

Now, even if you can make a valid case for the Jews being at fault in 30 AD for failing to accept Jesus, despite the miracles, it is also a well known fact that the Jews since then have had to deal with massive Christian anti-Semitism and discrimination for many centuries. Is it any wonder that the Jews in 2020 find themselves unable to accept Jesus as God? I am not a Catholic, but the Catholic Church of today teaches that those non-Catholics and non-Christians who are blinded by invincible ignorance, still have a chance of being saved and going to Heaven. All I am saying is that we dare not put God in a box and try and speak for Him with finality. Only God decides who will and who will not be saved.
 
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chad kincham

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All I am saying is that we dare not put God in a box and try and speak for Him with finality. Only God decides who will and who will not be saved.

God put Himself in a box, then
So this must take place after the millennium, after the earth is burned up and replaced with a new earth, since any people regathered back to the land before that time will in fact not "remain forever", as the entire earth is burned and replaced 1000 years later.

In order to "remain forever" the regathering must not take place until the new earth arrives.

Read all of Zechariah 14 where Jesus returns, saves Jerusalem from destruction, destroys the armies attacking the city, and afterwards every nation left alive comes into the city on a certain feast day, to worship God, who lives on earth, in the city, from then on.

Cross reference that to Rev 21 where God comes down with the city new Jerusalem and dwells there forever with His people.

The earth is never destroyed. Two scriptures say the world is without end.

The earth was destroyed by water, yet it’s the same planet - and will be cleansed by fire and restored to like-new, Edenic condition.

The Bible says 1/3 of the world will be burned, not the whole planet.
 
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parousia70

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Read all of Zechariah 14 where Jesus returns, saves Jerusalem from destruction, destroys the armies attacking the city, and afterwards every nation left alive comes into the city on a certain feast day, to worship God, who lives on earth, in the city, from then on.
I don’t buy into this sort of backwards redemption theology, where sometime in the future human beings will be required to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at the feet of Jesus Christ for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him.
I will always side with the apostles in rejecting that.
And of course there’s the insurmountable logistical problem of 1 billion or more people traveling to Jerusalem and standing in line on a certain “feast day”, waiting to sacrifice their bull or goat at Jesus feet, in the hopes it will atone for their sins and He will accept them (which is not a guarantee).

How long to you think it will take for a billion people to slay a billion goats at Jesus’ feet, And for Jesus to sort out which of those animal sacrifices he deems acceptable for the atonement of their sins in which he does not?
One day?
Maybe days are reaaaaaally looooong in the millennium?

The earth was destroyed by water,
the whole planet?
yet it’s the same planet - and will be cleansed by fire and restored to like-new, Edenic condition.
The whole planet?

The Bible says
Where??
Typically, when you make a statement that includes the words “The Bible Says”, you would reference the chapter and verse so your readers may examine for themselves where “the Bible says” it.

1/3 of the world will be burned, not the whole planet.

Oh... not the whole planet then?
Was only 1/3 destroyed in the flood too?

...and again where does “the Bible say” this?
 
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