Evidence of Election Fraud

LostMarbels said:

How do you not see the last four years as a conspiracy against Trump I will never know.

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No, just opposition; conspiracies are by definition secret.

People are losing their minds over typos...

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No, just laughing their you-know-whats off.

...but completely condone the DNC falsifying documents, withholding exculpatory evidence... buying falsified unclaimed 'opposition research' and lying to the courts to garner warrants. That's all good... 'kosher'.

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Not if it had actually happened.

LostMarbels said:

That does not however discount fraud as the causation of those votes. Without verifiable means to verify those votes, they are not beyond contestation. I don't think you get that if they are not verified they are not legally cast.

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You claim fraud? Prove it.

Team Donald can't; perhaps you can?

LostMarbels said:

How do you not see the last four years as a conspiracy against Trump I will never know.

People are losing their minds over typos, but completely condone the DNC falsifying documents, withholding exculpatory evidence... buying falsified unclaimed 'opposition research' and lying to the courts to garner warrants. That's all good... 'kosher'.

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Even if all that were true, it wouldn't automatically mean the election is a part of that same conspiracy. Maybe it is. Maybe not. If I'm being totally honest, I really wouldn't care if it was to tell you the truth. Not because I don't care about these things but because Trump is just that bad that I wish there really was an internal effort to have him removed but the people who would be in charge of pulling that off haven't convinced me that they could even rig a mouse trap. Much less a national election. You give them too much credit.

What you present is a complete denial of reality that I do not even understand. What is to be accomplished? At this point the cat is already out of the bag and the sides are determined. Whatever... believe whatsoever you chose.

LostMarbels said:

You are just going to have to get over that. The left no longer controls the narrative. This marches on whether you so chose to do whatever or not, with or without your consent or approval. The only option you have at this point is understanding what is being presented against your stance.

This does not stop. This doesn't go away. There is still 4 years in front of us to consider every single topic. Every move. Every decision. Every single day minute by minute for the next 4 years. Non-stop.

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LOL! It is time to face reality. It is up to Trump and his supporters to find some evidence. So far they have not found any. This is why these challenges are a source of humor and nothing more.

Subduction Zone said:

LOL! It is time to face reality. It is up to Trump and his supporters to find some evidence. So far they have not found any. This is why these challenges are a source of humor and nothing more.

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Ok...

LostMarbels said:

Ok...

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By the way, you dodged a question. That amounts to an admission that one is wrong. Do you understand that ballots have to be separated from envelopes once verified and before counting? Do you understand why? A yes or no to the first question please and a short sentence to answer the second would do.

LostMarbels said:

What you present is a complete denial of reality that I do not even understand. What is to be accomplished? At this point the cat is already out of the bag and the sides are determined. Whatever... believe whatsoever you chose.

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Everyone noticed that you didn't present any evidence despite repeated claims that you have some.

GoldenBoy89 said:

It's all just a big conspiracy against Trump.

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Ayup, you see about eighty million people conspired against President Trump and voted against him in favor of [checks notes] Someone Else.

Pommer said:

Ayup, you see about eighty million people conspired against President Trump and voted against him in favor of [checks notes] Someone Else.

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This whole time we were the Deep State all along.

Yet again... this is a political forum, I am discussing politics and the politicians concerning the current political issue. Not the citizenry. I also do not believe in identity politics, where there is always someone to blame simply because of their political affiliation.

LostMarbels said:

Because of headlines? Because you can get in a good zinger and make someone upset?

Where is the proof needed to validate Biden's votes and why are the Dems suppressing transparency?

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I'm sorry, how are the "Dems" suppressing transparency? Particularly in a state like Georgia, where it is the Republican governor and Republican Secretary of State that are responsible for running the election, and that have certified it and are satisfied that only legal votes were counted? The fact is, it is the states that are responsible for their elections and for providing that "transparency" you want -- not Democrats. In some cases that is Democrats, but it is just as often (and even more often) Republicans.

Additionally, the courts have ruled (a few times now) that the Republicans were given the transparency that the law requires; I understand you don't like it and point to affidavits, but again, the courts have not found those claims credible. Instead, the courts have found that the complaints often are based on ignorance about the law (such as when particularly were barred because there were already the allowed number of Republican observers) and that legally none of the claims showed any actual violation of election laws.

As for "proof" needed to validate Biden's votes -- that is what the various states are doing when they certify their votes. They've checked to ensure, to the best of their ability, that all votes were legally cast and that state law was followed. It isn't Biden, or Democrats, that are required to prove they are legal -- that is what the states are doing. Additionally, to claim they need to prove a lack of fraud is impossible, that is one of those negatives that cannot be proven. Instead, as the courts keep telling the various lawyers working to help Pres. Trump, it is up to them to provide the evidence that fraud occurred.

As the US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit ruled today -- and this was a panel made up of three justices appointed by Republicans, including one by Trump, stated, “Calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.” They stated the “claims have no merit.”

I think you misunderstand the Democrats response here. Yes, originally they argued the claims -- until they found that it didn't matter, no one on the other side was listening. The cases being filed today, at least that I've seen, raise the same issues that were claimed a week ago -- but the evidence hasn't improved at all. Now, maybe there is something more, I've not looked at the most recent suit in Nevada, where a judge has agreed to hear the Trump campaign's case.

What you miss, though, what most "on the left" argued against keep being brought up over, and over, and over. They are tired of debunking the same points over and over. Instead, what they see now are rulings, such as the above Appeals Court ruling. If you understand "legalese", the above ruling is the equivalent of calling Trump's lawyers idiots and/or stupid. The appeals court felt the need to explain basic law to the Trump campaign -- and again, remember one of these justices was appointed by Trump and all were Republicans -- by stating that, "Charges require specific allegations and then proof." This is why "leftists" are laughing, because that is essentially what the court is doing, laughing these cases out of court. And, yes, this lawsuit is now being appealed to the Supreme Court but I can't see it getting any more consideration that it did in the lower courts.

SimplyMe said:

I'm sorry, how are the "Dems" suppressing transparency? Particularly in a state like Georgia, where it is the Republican governor and Republican Secretary of State that are responsible for running the election, and that have certified it and are satisfied that only legal votes were counted? The fact is, it is the states that are responsible for their elections and for providing that "transparency" you want -- not Democrats. In some cases that is Democrats, but it is just as often (and even more often) Republicans.

Additionally, the courts have ruled (a few times now) that the Republicans were given the transparency that the law requires; I understand you don't like it and point to affidavits, but again, the courts have not found those claims credible. Instead, the courts have found that the complaints often are based on ignorance about the law (such as when particularly were barred because there were already the allowed number of Republican observers) and that legally none of the claims showed any actual violation of election laws.

As for "proof" needed to validate Biden's votes -- that is what the various states are doing when they certify their votes. They've checked to ensure, to the best of their ability, that all votes were legally cast and that state law was followed. It isn't Biden, or Democrats, that are required to prove they are legal -- that is what the states are doing. Additionally, to claim they need to prove a lack of fraud is impossible, that is one of those negatives that cannot be proven. Instead, as the courts keep telling the various lawyers working to help Pres. Trump, it is up to them to provide the evidence that fraud occurred.

As the US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit ruled today -- and this was a panel made up of three justices appointed by Republicans, including one by Trump, stated, “Calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.” They stated the “claims have no merit.”

I think you misunderstand the Democrats response here. Yes, originally they argued the claims -- until they found that it didn't matter, no one on the other side was listening. The cases being filed today, at least that I've seen, raise the same issues that were claimed a week ago -- but the evidence hasn't improved at all. Now, maybe there is something more, I've not looked at the most recent suit in Nevada, where a judge has agreed to hear the Trump campaign's case.

What you miss, though, what most "on the left" argued against keep being brought up over, and over, and over. They are tired of debunking the same points over and over. Instead, what they see now are rulings, such as the above Appeals Court ruling. If you understand "legalese", the above ruling is the equivalent of calling Trump's lawyers idiots and/or stupid. The appeals court felt the need to explain basic law to the Trump campaign -- and again, remember one of these justices was appointed by Trump and all were Republicans -- by stating that, "Charges require specific allegations and then proof." This is why "leftists" are laughing, because that is essentially what the court is doing, laughing these cases out of court. And, yes, this lawsuit is now being appealed to the Supreme Court but I can't see it getting any more consideration that it did in the lower courts.

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Short answer: “The only way I can lose is if ‘it’s rigged’,” (paraphrase of Donald Trump), Trump lost, ipso facto, “there’s massive fraud!!1!”
Shorter answer: Trump lost

SimplyMe said:

This is why "leftists" are laughing, because that is essentially what the court is doing, laughing these cases out of court.

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It does not matter that they are laughing. This is Trump. I have no doubt in my mind that this is part of draining the swamp. You know the whole military tribunal thing... mass arrests... so on? Flynn just got pardoned. Soon he will be back in the DOD. He knows where the bodies are buried, that is why they went after him in the first place.

Call me crazy, but I cannot help but see this as the last attempt. The DOD is actually already involved in this. There was also an undercover investigation ongoing during this election to catch foreign interference. I see this getting to the point of being declared as an act of international cyber warfare. This would place the authority outside the courts since it was a direct act of war on America infrastructure, and be place in the DOD. Trump will declare a national defense response... the insurrection act and 14th amendment provisions will be enacted to strip electoral votes from rebelling states. At that point in time all of it will be heard in military court. Even SCOTUS will be presided over concerning an act of war and coup attempt.

I think that is where Trump is trying to go. I think this is his endgame.

GoldenBoy89 said:

This whole time we were the Deep State all along.

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The real Deep State was the friends we made along the way <3

LostMarbels said:

It does not matter that they are laughing. This is Trump.

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That just makes them laugh harder.

I have no doubt in my mind that this is part of draining the swamp.

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Of course you have no doubt.

You know the whole military tribunal thing... mass arrests... so on?

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Nope -- no idea what you're talking about.

Flynn just got pardoned. Soon he will be back in the DOD. He knows where the bodies are buried, that is why they went after him in the first place.

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Without security clearance personally granted by Donald himself, Flynn couldn't get a job in the Pentagon as a janitor...

... and Donald's got far more important things (for himself) to worry about.

Call me crazy,

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That would be a violation of forum rules.

but I cannot help but see this as the last attempt.

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Last attempt by who? At what?

The DOD is actually already involved in this. There was also an undercover investigation ongoing during this election to catch foreign interference.

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If it was "undercover," how did you find out about it?

A sad commentary indeed on the state of national security.

I see this getting to the point of being declared as an act of international cyber warfare.

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By whom? The Russians? The Chinese? The Martians?

This would place the authority outside the courts since it was a direct act of war on America infrastructure, and be place in the DOD. Trump will declare a national defense response... the insurrection act and 14th amendment provisions will be enacted to strip electoral votes from rebelling states. At that point in time all of it will be heard in military court. Even SCOTUS will be presided over concerning an act of war and coup attempt.

I think that is where Trump is trying to go. I think this is his endgame.

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Sounds like you're saying that Donald's best chance at maintaining power is to claim the states are in insurrection against him, and declare war on them.

LostMarbels said:

It does not matter that they are laughing. This is Trump. I have no doubt in my mind that this is part of draining the swamp. You know the whole military tribunal thing... mass arrests... so on? Flynn just got pardoned. Soon he will be back in the DOD. He knows where the bodies are buried, that is why they went after him in the first place.

Call me crazy, but I cannot help but see this as the last attempt. The DOD is actually already involved in this. There was also an undercover investigation ongoing during this election to catch foreign interference. I see this getting to the point of being declared as an act of international cyber warfare. This would place the authority outside the courts since it was a direct act of war on America infrastructure, and be place in the DOD. Trump will declare a national defense response... the insurrection act and 14th amendment provisions will be enacted to strip electoral votes from rebelling states. At that point in time all of it will be heard in military court. Even SCOTUS will be presided over concerning an act of war and coup attempt.

I think that is where Trump is trying to go. I think this is his endgame.

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So you mean a coup then

And you say you're not an Alex Jones fan?

LostMarbels said:

Trump will declare a national defense response... the insurrection act and 14th amendment provisions will be enacted to strip electoral votes from rebelling states. At that point in time all of it will be heard in military court.

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Well, that certainly sounds exciting. Also completely unconstitutional. I'd have to say that Trump is a bit more interested in playing golf than engaging in some grand scheme like that.

TLK Valentine said:

Sounds like you're saying that Donald's best chance at maintaining power is to claim the states are in insurrection against him, and declare war on them.

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No, it will have to be proven or the worlds stage, or the world will never accept it. A move like that with no evidence would have his own supporters knocking down his door.

Triumvirate said:

So you mean a coup then

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No... exposing and ending a coup.