Is the Lord God still hiding His face from the House of Israel?

Spiritual Jew said:

If you compare the following two passages, it looks to me that He is no longer hiding His face from them:

Ezekiel 39:25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

I don't know about you, but I see striking similarities between these 2 passages. Both talk about Jews being brought back to their homeland from many other countries. Both talk about the Holy Spirit being poured out on the people of Israel. To me, the day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:25-29 just as it was the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 (see Acts 2:16-21).

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BABerean2 said:

You could ignore what is written in the New Testament to make your interpretation of Ezekiel 39 work, or you could do the opposite.

Many on this forum choose the former.

The rest of us would rather take the more clearly revealed scripture found in the New Testament as the final authority.

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Douggg said:

In other words, BaB2, since Ezekiel 39 invalidates the interpretation you have concerning certain scriptures in the New Testament, you choose to ignore it.

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BABerean2 said:

If you think Ezekiel 39 invalidates anything found in the New Testament, you have revealed your interpretation for what it really is.

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Douggg said:

I wrote Ezekiel 39 invalidates your interpretation of certain scriptures in the New Testament.

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BABerean2 said:

If you are going to make an accusation, please be more specific.


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Douggg said:

Here is what you wrote...

"The rest of us would rather take the more clearly revealed scripture found in the New Testament as the final authority."

...instead of what it says in Ezekiel 39. You made a claim on two fronts. One that Ezekiel 39 is not clear. And two, that your interpretation of certain scriptures in the New Testament are the final authority - whatever that means.

Which you are implying that Ezekiel 39 is overridden by your interpretation of certain scriptures in the New Testament - because Ezekiel 39 invalidates your interpretations.

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BABerean2 said:

You have it exactly backwards.

The New Testament overrides your interpretation of Ezekiel 39 in the same way no other Bible scholar on the planet agrees with your interpretation of Daniel 9:27.

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Douggg said:

There is no over-riding of Ezekiel 39 by the New Testament, when the verses in the New Testament are correctly understood. And Ezekiel 39 does not over-ride the New Testament verses, either.


Ezekiel 39:17-20 is Revelation 19:17-18.

And Ezekiel 39:29 is Matthew 24:31.

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BABerean2 said:

If you think your interpretation makes the Two Peoples of God doctrine work, you could not be further from the truth.

Anyone who says God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary has erased John 19:30 from their Bible.

It is the same as pretending Romans 1:16 does not exist.
When was the Gospel taken "first" to the Jews, and how long did that period of time last?

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DavidPT said:

And the question is, where do these 7 years fit? Before or after the 2nd coming? If before the 2nd coming, why then are most agreeing Revelation 19:17-18 involves the 2nd coming? Is not Revelation 19:17-18 describing the destruction of Gog and his armies?

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DavidPT said:

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Ezekiel 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


If we start with verse 23, we at least know from the text that the Lord God had been hiding His face from the house of Israel up until this point in time. We then need to backup in Ch 39 a bit in order to see what events have to be fulfilled before the Lord God is no longer hiding His face from the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

According to this block of text, it is not this Judgment that the Lord God executes, being when He is no longer hiding His face from them. Has He already executed this judgment? If the answer is yes, and that one can prove it, this indicates He is no longer hiding His face from them, obviously. But, if He is yet to execute this judgment, this indicates He is still hiding His face from them, even today, obviously.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

Can this block of text be compared to any Scriptures in the NT? What about the following?

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


In both accounts, every feathered fowl is being spoken to, to gather to His sacrifice He sacrifices for them, and in both accounts it is men of war who are being sacrificed. Obviously, both accounts are referring to the same events, and that Revelation 19 proves Ezekiel 39:17-20 is future still, which then means the Lord God is still hiding His face from the House of Israel to this day. To argue otherwise is to deny that Ezekiel 39:17-20 and Revelation 19:17-18 are referring to the same events. Which then means you need to prove what past event Ezekiel 39:17-20 is referring to. And finally, to argue otherwise is to deny that when the Lord God is no longer hiding His face from the House of Israel, it is meaning once He has executed the judgment recorded in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

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Douggg said:

Ezekiel 39 provides the infallible timeline framework which end times eschatology must fit.

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DavidPT said:

What interpretation of mine are you referring to? Ezekiel 39 is in my Bible, and that one of my interests are prophecies in the Bible, therefore I'm trying to determine the meaning of Ezekiel 39 per this thread. To this day I'm not entirely certain what to make of that chapter. That's what this thread is trying to determine, what to make of this chapter. And if Ezekiel 39:17-20 is meaning Revelation 19:17-18, and that pretty much everyone but Preterists agree Revelation 19:17-18 is still future and that it involves the 2nd coming, how then is it a reasonable conclusion to decide God is no longer hiding His face from the House of Israel meant, when the text indicates He doesn't quit hiding His face until He executes the judgment recorded in verses 17-20 first?

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DavidPT said:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The house of Israel can't be meaning the NT church unless one wants to argue that verse 12 is being applied to the NT church--mainly meaning this part---For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness

And since the house of Israel is not meaning the NT church here, does one have proof that verse 11 is already true of every man within the house of Israel, from the least to the greatest, that they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me? In what way might that already be true?

If we then compare verse 12 to the following in Ezekiel 39.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

How can Hebrews 8:12 already be true before Ezekiel 39:27-29 is true first? How can Ezekiel 39:27-29 already be true before Ezekiel 39:17-20 is true first? How can Ezekiel 39:17-20 already be true before Revelation 19:17-18 is true first?
By true I'm meaning as in fulfilled.

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DavidPT said:

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Ezekiel 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


If we start with verse 23, we at least know from the text that the Lord God had been hiding His face from the house of Israel up until this point in time. We then need to backup in Ch 39 a bit in order to see what events have to be fulfilled before the Lord God is no longer hiding His face from the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

According to this block of text, it is not this Judgment that the Lord God executes, being when He is no longer hiding His face from them. Has He already executed this judgment? If the answer is yes, and that one can prove it, this indicates He is no longer hiding His face from them, obviously. But, if He is yet to execute this judgment, this indicates He is still hiding His face from them, even today, obviously.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

Can this block of text be compared to any Scriptures in the NT? What about the following?

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


In both accounts, every feathered fowl is being spoken to, to gather to His sacrifice He sacrifices for them, and in both accounts it is men of war who are being sacrificed. Obviously, both accounts are referring to the same events, and that Revelation 19 proves Ezekiel 39:17-20 is future still, which then means the Lord God is still hiding His face from the House of Israel to this day. To argue otherwise is to deny that Ezekiel 39:17-20 and Revelation 19:17-18 are referring to the same events. Which then means you need to prove what past event Ezekiel 39:17-20 is referring to. And finally, to argue otherwise is to deny that when the Lord God is no longer hiding His face from the House of Israel, it is meaning once He has executed the judgment recorded in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

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BABerean2 said:

Does this agree with your "infallible" interpretation of Daniel 9:27?


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