God permits evil because we need to know

JAL said:

This is my typical exchange with you. I just showed you that Sola Scriptura is a contradiction in terms and you ignored the contradiction.

This is why tell people - start with a position that isn't full of contradictions FIRST, and then we can debate the merits of it, we can for example ask questions like this:


Well since you asked, yes. God is what is missing from the Bible. Direct Revelation brings the invisible God into visibility (2Cor 3:18). That verse confirms that Paul's experience on the Road to Damascus is our experience today, even if our vision of Him is less vivid.

To put it simply, you are not saved UNTIL YOU MEET THE LORD PERSONALLY. And you aren't mature until the vision becomes crystal clear and thus, "Now we see as through a glass darkly, then [in maturity] we shall see face to face" (1 Cor 13:12).

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garee said:

You offered that Sola Scriptura is a contradiction in terms. . . But whose terms

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...the word of God which he magnifies above his name is subject to it as it is written ?

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I have meet God face to face (faith to faith) now that we have the perfect or whole .

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God is not a man he does not have a literal face.

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Face to face is knowledge of God's revealed will to the same knowledge, the spiritual understanding to the same unseen .

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JAL said:

A contradiction isn't dependent on "who" is telling you about it. It is what it is.


The Bible is basically an accurate history book. It's certainly not the divine Word of John 1.

Imagine for example two books on adolescent mathmatics - the one penned by God, the other by a professor. Is there any substantial difference? In both cases, it's just a math book and NOTHING MORE. God's involvement merely reduces the likelihood of errors.

In fact it's debatable whether the Bible should be called "the (written) Word of God". It's certainly not the power of God - in fact Paul is clear that the Law had no power to sanctify, it could only condemn (See Roman 7 and 2Cor 3).

For centuries the Sola Scriptura party has couched sanctimonious language in (supposedly) rhetorical terms to make us THINK that the Bible is our final authority, asking (supposedly) rhetorical questions like this, "Isn't it obvious that the Word of God is above all?" Is that really rhetorical? It amounts to putting our trust in men!

How so? The only way to learn Hebrew and Greek is via a man-made lexicon! 2,000 years later, these very lexicons STILL can't even get right the name of the Third Person! They still think His name is "The Holy Spirit/Ghost" !!!! The correct title is "The Holy Breath/Wind".

Baloney. I can see you're buying into a tortured reading of 1Cor 13:8-12 concocted by the Sola Scriptura party. That reading quickly disintegrates during a responsible exegesis.

Non-sequitur. You don't have to be a homo-sapien to have a face. Think of animals, angels, and, hypothetically speaking, aliens from outer space. Everything in the Bible points to a God with a face, starting with our being fashioned in His image. Not sure what you expect to see when you finally meet God face to face - oh that's right, you apparently expect to see a Bible!


Yeah right.

"The Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend".

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garee said:

Yes face to face as he speaks his knowledge as law not as he is seen. .The apostles were confused on that matter they attributed the things of God not seen to men seen .


The image is of our invisible God in His likeness . Not the likeness of corrupted mankind seen, the temporal That describes the pagan form of government out of sight out of mind. No faith coming from God not seen.

Acts14 gives us a clear picture of paganism trusting the hands of sinful men and not the work of gospel as it is written. . the unseen power of God.

Making the apostles into gods in the likeness of men is another gospel another Christ as a teaching master. No man can serve two teaching master as Lord. The things seen the temporal and the things of God not seen, the eternal .

Apostles "sent ones" (not venerable ones) preach the gospel. Paul plants the incorruptible seed by which men are born again from above and another apostle "sent one" waters it with the doctrines that fall like rain of our unseen God. God causes the growth if any enabling us to walk by faith the unseen eternal .In that way all men are born cripple.

Acts14:7-14 And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Crying out blasphemy.

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garee said:

Yes face to face as he speaks his knowledge as law not as he is seen. .The apostles were confused on that matter they attributed the things of God not seen to men seen .


The image is of our invisible God in His likeness . Not the likeness of corrupted mankind seen, the temporal That describes the pagan form of government out of sight out of mind. No faith coming from God not seen.

Acts14 gives us a clear picture of paganism trusting the hands of sinful men and not the work of gospel as it is written. . the unseen power of God.

Making the apostles into gods in the likeness of men is another gospel another Christ as a teaching master. No man can serve two teaching master as Lord. The things seen the temporal and the things of God not seen, the eternal .

Apostles "sent ones" (not venerable ones) preach the gospel. Paul plants the incorruptible seed by which men are born again from above and another apostle "sent one" waters it with the doctrines that fall like rain of our unseen God. God causes the growth if any enabling us to walk by faith the unseen eternal .In that way all men are born cripple.

Acts14:7-14 And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Crying out blasphemy.

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JAL said:

Whereas if the "man" standing before you happens to be the Father or Son, worship is expected.

"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky.

You've denied His face. You deny His feet too? What about His back? You deny that too?

"When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

And His hand? You deny that too? Is there anything in Scripture that you DO believe? Or are you still too infatuated with the homosexual pagan philosopher Plato who, contrary to Scripture, misled the whole church to believe that God is a non-physical "spirit" without parts?

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garee said:

Hi thanks for the reply.

I am not into the philosophies of men .Its not we are to study in order to seek the approval of our unseen God according to his righteous, loving commandment (2 Timothy 2:15)

The unseen hidden glory that comes from the knowledge of God as the hand or will of God ,Is not known beforehand as some who say name it claim it .No man knows the future . We see the backside of it when he lifts his hand .

I would offer again God as eternal Spirt remains without father and mother as humans.He is not a temporal corrupted dying man as us. And neither is there any daysman as a infallible fleshly umpire set between God not seen and mankind seen as the teaching Good master. .

Something others would call a Pope. Our heavenly Father inspired his words on the lips of Job as son of God as it is written.

Job 9:32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

Even the Son of man Jesus denied the unseen position of our father in heaven when accused of the one Good Master. He sent of the father was given the words of the father .proclaiming only God is the Good Lord of lords and invisible King of kings . In effect saying why bow down venerate me.

Mark 10:17-18 King James Version (KJV) And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Sola scriptura (all things written in the law and prophets) alone is the witness of our unseen Holy Father as it is written defines his character and power to save.

In that way our living God not seen is of one mind and always does
whatsoever his soul pleases .It is His spirit working in us that can make our hearts soft giving us his daily rest yoked with him making our burdens and sufferings lighter giving us a living hope of a new incorruptible body .

Job 23: 13-15 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

In that way he does perform that his will that is required of us working in and with us . Some do the good will of the unseen Father as murmurers like that of Jonah who wanted to die rather than preaching the gospel to another nation of people .He was angry with God shown by looking at fault of the Ninevites .

Jonah4:1-4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live. Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?

Others like the Son of man, Jesus, the chief apostle sent by the father was delighted to do the will of the unseen Father. In that way all Christians should decrease and humble themselves under (sola scriptura) the hearing of faith. While Christ increases his faithful power in us,

If it is not the Spirit of Christ working in you then whose pleasure of a will are you doing?

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

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JAL said:

Yes. If you look at some homo sapiens performing signs and wonders and fall down and worship them as gods, that would be blasphemy. So? And? Was there a point to this post?

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JAL said:

As usual, your post is a hodgepodge of rambling, non-sequiturs, dots impossible to connect, no convincing response to the objections raised and, in the midst of all that murkiness, a wearisome dogmatic repetition of conclusions already challenged or discredited. This isn't worth my time.

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garee said:

.Its the unseen work of the gospel.....

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garee said:

Did you check out the warning?

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1 John 2: 26-27 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

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JAL said:

Anyone can cite some random verse and call it a warning. (So consider yourself warned). The real challenge is to establish the relevance. Watch and learn. Here is the verse you cited.

That verse is a warning against YOUR position. That language is precisely the same type of language recorded in John's gospel:

"He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." (John 16).

Now here's the point. Where does Jesus say to distrust this Voice? To "check it out with Scripture"? He certainly didn't say that here - nor at John 10:27. Why not? Again, because Direct Revelation leverages a compelling, undeniable, self-authenticating imperative, as argued at post 177.

People often ask me, "Without exegesis, how do we test the spirits?" But there is no mention of exegesis in the test-the-spirit verses! Exegesis was NOT the sort of test that John had in mind. The test of a spirit is to simply ask yourself, "Is this spirit saying something contrary to what the Anointing previously taught me? Is it contradicting the self-authenticating Voice of Direct Revelation?" That's the whole point of the passage that you cited to me as a 'warning' (1 John 2: 26-27).

Look, this isn't my first rodeo. I've been around the block a couple of times. Any verse that you try to leverage against my position, I can show you why it ultimately weighs against YOUR position. I've done it on other threads - threads that you refuse to read. I don't have time to repeat all that material here. So I'm not going to go back and forth with you forever on this thread.

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garee said:

The verse supports my opinion...

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Acts 24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Prove all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) is heresy ?

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garee said:

The verse supports my opinion the living warning coming from above not from John the apostle sent by the unseen Holy Father .Not earthly inspired of mankind. But heavenly inspired of the Holy, anointing Spirit our teacher comforter and guide .

Not a law of the fathers as oral traditions of men. Christ the teacher is the same Spirit of faith as it is written who brings to our minds the things he has taught us.

You are simply holding your opinion as a heresy above the perfect law as it is written.

The reformation came in the first century. It is a carbon copy of the 15th .. Sola scriptura, all things written in the law and the prophets is the reforming restoring authority in any generation.

Not men becoming a law unto themselves with a false zeal for knowing God. They went around murdering the misperceived competition (out of sight out of mind). No faith coming from as it is written alone.

Acts22:3-5 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

That sect of the Pharisees along with Sadaucesss two faithless sects under law of the fathers tried to prove that all things written in the law and prophets was heresy just as you. They could not .Paul declared to them with words inspired from above ..That he worshipped our one Holy Father in heaven the Father of the fathers on earth by what they called heresy . Not as them worshiping or venerating the father as if they made up our unseen Holy Father in heaven.

Acts 24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Prove all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) is heresy ?

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JAL said:

I'll summarize it this way. A tragic flaw in Sola Scriptura ideology is that, in reality, the exegete has no direct access to the Scriptures! All he has access to is his fallible translations of the Hebrew and Greek, combined with his fallible extrapolations of those words.

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JAL said:

None of your verses, so far, provide clear support to the conclusions dividing us. Basically you take any verse REMOTELY RELATED to our current debate and adduce it as "proof" of your position. It's blatant eisegesis, coupled with strawmen, misrepresenation, and a complete failure to address my objections.

Typical strawman example:


How is that passage a challenge to me? How does it establish Sola Scriptura (i.e. the repudiation of Direct Revelation as a final authority)? Just like Paul, I believe everything written in the Law and the Prophets. And just like Paul, I need the aid of Direct Revelation to interpret the Bible infallibly. And you should admit the same, unless you think you are infallible.

I've given you every opportunity to produce even ONE POST that isn't a strawman. Since you have failed to comply, you can expect that my response to your future posts will be "Nonsense ignored".

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garee said:

The bible is its own interpreter .God gives us his understanding or exegesis called the hearing of faith. Not of the private interpretation of mankind .

God is not served by the private interpretations of men. The witness of God is greater than the witness of men.

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

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garee said:

That's nonsense. God is no longer brining any new revelations in any manner he did before we have the perfect. We believe just as Paul the hearing of faith working in us to both will and do His good pleasure .

God's word prophecy is a direct timeless revelation as the final authority.

The question is will you hear it and believe what the Spirit says?

Its how we try the spirits to see if they are of sinful men inspired earthly or God heavenly . Anyone that says "thus says the lord I had a vision of dream or a direct voice from without .We are to believe not. Any prophet that came after the last true John making the claim of a direct new revelation fails the test .

What is the foundation of your belief . Do you serve a law of the fathers a hierarchy of venerable men?

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JAL said:

Strawmen, misrepresentations. Ignored.

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