How Joe Biden Stole The Election

QvQ

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If you are making an argument that most countries don’t have an open ended system whereby anyone can vote in any election for any reason by post, then you have a point. That however is not the point.

Most countries allow postal voting. This is a fact. It is not a matter of opinion. Across the developed world there are few if any countries that do not allow postal voting. Each country has its own regulations regarding the circumstances under which postal voting is allowed.

There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud anywhere as a result of postal voting. Even the extensive data put out by the White House of voter fraud over the years adds up to little over 1,000 cases across the whole of the US over several decades, and that includes every case of fraud or attempted fraud of any kind, and relates to very small numbers of votes.
And to whom does one report voter fraud? To the people who are printing, passing out and counting the ballots? IF the person voting next to you is an illegal voter, do you report the illegal voter to the person over at the table where the illegal voter received that ballot from that person?
3) Because of vulnerabilities in the system, election fraud is relatively easy to commit and difficult to detect after-the-fact. Moreover, some public officials appear to be unconcerned with election fraud and fail to pursue cases that are reported to them. It is a general truism that you don’t find what you don’t look for.
In Sept 2016, on any given day, a month before an election, over 50% of the voters said there was voter fraud. 25% said voter fraud was a major, serious problem. Why? Because there is and has been voter fraud.
 
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Tom 1

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And to whom does one report voter fraud? To the people who are printing, passing out and counting the ballots? IF the person voting next to you is an illegal voter, do you report him to the person over at the table where he received that ballot from that person?
3) Because of vulnerabilities in the system, election fraud is relatively easy to commit and difficult to detect after-the-fact. Moreover, some public officials appear to be unconcerned with election fraud and fail to pursue cases that are reported to them. It is a general truism that you don’t find what you don’t look for.

All of the allegations have been looked into. Someone saying ‘something’s not right’ in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is not evidence of fraud. What do you think is going on there?

For widespread voter fraud to be possible the defrauders would need to have total control of the system. I’m aware that people actually think that the opposition party has somehow managed this, but that is pure fantasy. It’s truly astonishing that such basic facts need to be pointed out to anyone. These imagined uh but what if scenarios are utterly ridiculous.

If you think this has actually happened take one case, just one single instance of voter fraud, and explain step by step exactly what happened, how all of the safeguards and procedures were bypassed, what the end result was and so on. Actual real things that actually happened. A bunch of people saying ‘uh I think there’s like fraud and stuff’ is evidence of absolutely nothing at all other than an inability to engage with the real world in a meaningful way. Please provide a detailed case of actual fraud and exactly how it happened.
 
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tulc

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I researched this during the election because food vendors were passing out food. I guess many people had the same question.
Chavez in Venezuela outraged the US when he offered free food and beer for all voters after voting in his election. I don't suppose Biden is going to prosecute GOTV for passing out gifts to Native Americans for voting as he was the beneficiary.
Here is a quoted excerpt and a link to the article:
"According to Title 18, U.S. code 597, offering food and beverages would be illegal.
It falls under expenditures to influence voting.
The keyword is in Expenditures, which can represent money, food, gifts or anything that Encourages People To Vote.
It says in part, “whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either To Vote or withhold his vote or to vote for or against any candidate … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.”
.... but the problem is, it looks like these organizations can potentially be soliciting votes for particular candidates," Gillespie explained. "We want to sort of eliminate any possibility or any hints of that type scandal or bribery going on in a campaign."
So, we can verify, NO, it is not legal to offer food and drinks as a reward to people standing in line to vote. It is technically a federal crime."
Is it legal to offer food or beverages at the polls? | VERIFY | 11alive.com
I researched this during the election because food vendors were passing out food. I guess many people had the same question.
Chavez in Venezuela outraged the US when he offered free food and beer for all voters after voting in his election. I don't suppose Biden is going to prosecute GOTV for passing out gifts to Native Americans for voting as he was the beneficiary.
Here is a quoted excerpt and a link to the article:
"According to Title 18, U.S. code 597, offering food and beverages would be illegal.
It falls under expenditures to influence voting.
The keyword is in Expenditures, which can represent money, food, gifts or anything that Encourages People To Vote.
It says in part, “whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either To Vote or withhold his vote or to vote for or against any candidate … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.”
.... but the problem is, it looks like these organizations can potentially be soliciting votes for particular candidates," Gillespie explained. "We want to sort of eliminate any possibility or any hints of that type scandal or bribery going on in a campaign."
So, we can verify, NO, it is not legal to offer food and drinks as a reward to people standing in line to vote. It is technically a federal crime."
Is it legal to offer food or beverages at the polls? | VERIFY | 11alive.com
That's nice...you do remember your article didn't say they were given anything while in line, right? In fact they went somewhere after voting, presented the little receipt people get for voting and got something for that. So I understand you really want to try and make that apply here but it simply doesn't. And no matter how many times you say it, it still wont. So that's 0 for 3.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)
 
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QvQ

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That's nice...you do remember your article didn't say they were given anything while in line, right? In fact they went somewhere after voting, presented the little receipt people get for voting and got something for that. So I understand you really want to try and make that apply here but it simply doesn't. And no matter how many times you say it, it still wont. So that's 0 for 3.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)
"sigh" Starbuck was giving free coffee to anyone who had an "I Voted" sticker. And it was any day after.
However, turns out, Rewarding Voters For Voting Is Illegal.
It doesn't say When. It can be any time before, during or after, even days after, Expenditures Encouraging People to Vote is Illegal.
 
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tulc

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And to whom does one report voter fraud? To the people who are printing, passing out and counting the ballots? IF the person voting next to you is an illegal voter, do you report the illegal voter to the person over at the table where the illegal voter received that ballot from that person?
3) Because of vulnerabilities in the system, election fraud is relatively easy to commit and difficult to detect after-the-fact. Moreover, some public officials appear to be unconcerned with election fraud and fail to pursue cases that are reported to them. It is a general truism that you don’t find what you don’t look for.
In Sept 2016, on any given day, a month before an election, over 50% of the voters said there was voter fraud. 25% said voter fraud was a major, serious problem. Why? Because there is and has been voter fraud.
So prove it. You keep making a claim and than not proving it. In fact, it sounds like one of those "there's no evidence of the crime and that's all the evidence we need to show there's been a crime." You can claim as much as you like but until you can produce evidence showing it people are going to keep asking for proof. If you can't provide any (not anecdotes, not laws that don't apply not "Christians should want this!!" claims) proof than perhaps, there's no fraud being perpetuated. :wave:
tulc(is off to bed, happy thanksgiving everyone!) :clap:
 
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tulc

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"sigh" Starbuck was giving free coffee to anyone who had an "I Voted" sticker. And it was any day after.
However, Turns out, Rewarding Voters For Voting Is Illegal.
It doesn't say When. It can be any time before, during or after, even days after, Expenditures Encouraging People to Vote is Illegal.
...or you don't understand what's actually considered a crime under that law? :scratch:
tulc(suspects that's the actual case here)
 
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QvQ

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All of the allegations have been looked into. Someone saying ‘something’s not right’ in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is not evidence of fraud. What do you think is going on there?

For widespread voter fraud to be possible the defrauders would need to have total control of the system. I’m aware that people actually think that the opposition party has somehow managed this, but that is pure fantasy. It’s truly astonishing that such basic facts need to be pointed out to anyone. These imagined uh but what if scenarios are utterly ridiculous.

If you think this has actually happened take one case, just one single instance of voter fraud, and explain step by step exactly what happened, how all of the safeguards and procedures were bypassed, what the end result was and so on. Actual real things that actually happened. A bunch of people saying ‘uh I think there’s like fraud and stuff’ is evidence of absolutely nothing at all other than an inability to engage with the real world in a meaningful way. Please provide a detailed case of actual fraud and exactly how it happened.
This is hypothetical but...not quite
Nevada voters can register to vote or update existing voter registration information in person at the polling place either during early voting or on Election Day.
There are tour busses from California to Las Vegas. There are liquor stores that are attached to voting precincts. A bus full of California Tourists stops at the liquor store. The California Tourists register to vote using a false Nevada address provided by the organizer. The person registering the voters does not bother with ID or proof of residency. The California Tourist votes, buys something from the liquor store in case there are any suspicious Nevada residents lurking about. Then the bus goes on to the Casinos...Another bus pulls up to the liquor store next to the voting precinct
So simple, so easy! The California Tourists get a free bus ride and maybe a little gambling cash.
Not quite hypothetical....
 
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Tom 1

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This is hypothetical but...not quite
Nevada voters can register to vote or update existing voter registration information in person at the polling place either during early voting or on Election Day.
There are tour busses from California to Las Vegas. There are liquor stores that are attached to voting precincts. A bus full of California Tourists stops at the liquor store. The California Tourists register to vote using a false Nevada address provided by the registering person. The person registering the voters does not bother with ID or proof of residency. The California Tourist votes, buys something from the liquor store in case there are any suspicious Nevada residents who might know voter fraud is happening. Then the bus goes on to the Casinos...Another bus pulls up to the liquor store next to the voting precinct (or actually there was a line of busses on that video)
So simple, so easy! The California Tourists get a free bus ride and maybe a little gambling cash.
Not quite hypothetical....

Evidence of voter fraud would involve some direct evidence of something happening that in some sense resulted in a ‘fraudulent vote’. There would be a need to establish what exactly happened and how it happened. The WH released some details of cases of actual fraud going back years but they represent a tiny fraction of a drop in a bucket.
 
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QvQ

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...or you don't understand what's actually considered a crime under that law? :scratch:
tulc(suspects that's the actual case here)
That is the Law. That is an actual case. Starbucks was giving coffee to anyone with an "I Voted" sticker. That is illegal.
If GOTV gifted anyone who had proof of voting, that was illegal.
I am not going to go over this endlessly. I suggest you contact an attorney.
There was also a case in Nevada where a woman was inviting people who were exiting voting, walking down the street, she invited them to a free music festival. She was stopped by authorities and told that is Illegal.
Go do some research, Case Closed
 
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QvQ

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Evidence of voter fraud would involve some direct evidence of something happening that in some sense resulted in a ‘fraudulent vote’. There would be a need to establish what exactly happened and how it happened. The WH released some details of cases of actual fraud going back years but they represent a tiny fraction of a drop in a bucket.
What I posted is actual fraud. It actually happened. It actually was reported. It actually was denied and the people who witnessed it, about half the State of Nevada as it is a regular election event, are always told by the officials, "What election fraud? We don't see know election fraud. Then the officials close their eyes, stuff up their ears and say "Prove it."
Instead of denying election fraud, the news media really should get out and talk to people, investigate because, years ago, between elections, more than 50% of the people stated that voter fraud was real. 50% are delusional liars? I don't think so.
 
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Tom 1

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What I posted is actual fraud. It actually happened. It actually was reported. It actually was denied and the people who witnessed it, about half the State of Nevada as it is a regular election event, are always told by the officials, "What election fraud? We don't see know election fraud. Then the officials close their eyes, stuff up their ears and say "Prove it."
Instead of denying election fraud, the news media really should get out and talk to people, investigate because, years ago, between elections, more than 50% of the people stated that voter fraud was real. 50% are delusional liars? I don't think so.

I don’t think delusional liars would be the right term. The whole fraud narrative, based on a series of vague stories that can never be proven is amplified by the conservative media over there until what is actually nothing at all begins to ‘feel’ true. There’s nothing unusual about that. For whatever reason large sections of the US public are particularly vulnerable to this kind of manipulation, there are probably all kinds of complicated reasons for that.
 
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QvQ

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I don’t think delusional liars would be the right term. The whole fraud narrative, based on a series of vague stories that can never be proven is amplified by the conservative media over there until what is actually nothing at all begins to ‘feel’ true. There’s nothing unusual about that. For whatever reason large sections of the US public are particularly vulnerable to this kind of manipulation, there are probably all kinds of complicated reasons for that.
I have seen that narrative on the news media lately. Denial and speculative theories about conspiracies, conservative media and the gullible hayseeds in flyover country
Fraud is suspected and your explanation adds insult to injury.
Even the Appearance of Impropriety is Shameful to America.
Clean it Up
 
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Tom 1

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I have seen that narrative on the news media lately. Denial and speculative theories about conspiracies, conservative media and the gullible hayseeds in flyover country
Fraud is suspected and your explanation adds insult to injury.
Even the Appearance of Impropriety is Shameful to America.
Clean it Up

What is shameful is that you have a president more than willing to spread falsehood in the hope of stirring up some sort of insurrection to keep him in power, and a bunch of spineless politicians keeping quiet about how ridiculous it is. As you have clearly demonstrated, you have no proof whatsoever for any of your assertions. You should give some careful thought to why you choose to believe things for which there is no evidence at all.
 
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QvQ

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What is shameful is that you have a president more than willing to spread falsehood in the hope of stirring up some sort of insurrection to keep him in power, and a bunch of spineless politicians keeping quiet about how ridiculous it is. As you have clearly demonstrated, you have no proof whatsoever for any of your assertions. You should give some careful thought to why you choose to believe things for which there is no evidence at all.
I personally have evidence. It is true that "organizers" went down the street registering and filling out ballots for homeless. It is true ACORN was registering voters illegally and multiple times in 2008.
LAS VEGAS — Nevada authorities seized records Tuesday from a group they accused of submitting fraudulent voter-registration forms — including for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys"
I posted an article from the Federalist that detailed violations of Federal Law by GOTV in this election.
Gee, I guess that is just falsehoods amplified by conservative media. The Nevada Authorities were manipulated by our evil President.
It is true that Nevada cleaned up their voter rolls, enacted laws but what good are laws if the laws are not enforced? Or obeyed or respected?
2008 de ja vu all over again!
 
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Tom 1

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I personally have evidence. It is true that "organizers" went down the street registering and filling out ballots for homeless. It is true ACORN was registering voters illegally and multiple times.
LAS VEGAS — Nevada authorities seized records Tuesday from a group they accused of submitting fraudulent voter-registration forms — including for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys"
Gee, I guess that is just vague stories amplified by conservative media. The Nevada Authorities were manipulated by our evil President.
It is true that Nevada cleaned up their voter rolls, enacted laws but what good are laws if the laws are not enforced? Or obeyed or respected?
2008 de ja vu all over again!

As I said a previous post, outline your evidence, exactly what happened, what the result was, what the evidence is etc. If it needs to be said random accusations are not evidence. This is simply true, I don’t know how to make it any clearer.
 
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QvQ

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As I said a previous post, outline your evidence, exactly what happened, what the result was, what the evidence is etc. If it needs to be said random accusations are not evidence. This is simply true, I don’t know how to make it any clearer.
I am not talking about President Trump. I am talking about election fraud. I have posted articles from the Nevada newspapers. I have posted articles from the Federalist. I have posted information about voter fraud in SD Thune/Johnson. I have mentioned the well documented voter fraud in Broward County. I can go find the article about voting in a basement in Ohio, all foreign nationals aided and abetted.
"According to a press release issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, Zul Mirza Mohamed, a candidate in the City of Carrollton mayoral race, was charged with 109 felonies related to voter fraud, including 84 counts of mail ballot application fraud and 25 counts of unlawful possession of an official mail ballot."
It is so easy. One mayor had 109 mail in ballots.
I have a trunk full of these news clippings reported by the News Media who claim it is vague story amplified by the conservative media into a conspiracy theory fed to Over 50% of voters who are gullible dupes manipulated by Trump and that same News Media will publish a poll claiming that Trump has Less Than 39% support in the entire nation, babies and dogs included. (That is why people laugh at the media, those anomalies, so entertaining)
So multiply all these frauds by the number that weren't caught and Ta Da...your candidate wins!
Voter fraud is real.
Clean it up!
 
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Tom 1

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I am not talking about "the evil orange man" I am talking about election fraud. I have posted articles from the Nevada newspapers. I have posted articles from the Federalist. I have posted information about voter fraud in SD Thune/Johnson. I have mentioned the well documented voter fraud in Broward County. I can go find the article about voting in a basement in Ohio, all foreign nationals aided and abetted.
"According to a press release issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, Zul Mirza Mohamed, a candidate in the City of Carrollton mayoral race, was charged with 109 felonies related to voter fraud, including 84 counts of mail ballot application fraud and 25 counts of unlawful possession of an official mail ballot."
It is so easy. One mayor had 84 mail in ballots.
I have a trunk full of these news clippings reported by the News Media who claim it is vague story amplified by the conservative media and used to manipulate the Over 50% of voters who are gullible dupes manipulated by Trump and that same News Media will publish a poll claiming that Trump has Less Than 39% support in the entire nation, babies and dogs included. (That is why people laugh at the media, those anomalies, so entertaining)
So multiply all these frauds by the number that weren't caught and Ta Da...your candidate wins!
Voter fraud is real.
Clean it up!

If you actually read those articles they are not offering anything that could be called proof. It’s just people saying stuff. Do you believe Elvis is working in a roadside café in the Midwest? Or that aliens have an active ‘probing’ program going on? There is as much evidence for those two things as is being offered for widespread voter fraud.
 
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QvQ

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If you actually read those articles they are not offering anything that could be called proof. It’s just people saying stuff. Do you believe Elvis is working in a roadside café in the Midwest? Or that aliens have an active ‘probing’ program going on? There is as much evidence for those two things as is being offered for widespread voter fraud.
Frankly, I don't believe the Las Vegas Sun or the Federalist is just people saying stuff. What I posted is from newspapers mostly. That story about the Texas Mayor and the ballot fraud in Broward County was widely published as news. There are tons more articles, especially about how ballots were handled during this election but I don't think anything would convince you of voter fraud.
I leave you to the News Medias fantasy of vague stories amplified by conservative news sites (The Las Vegas Sun, Conservative?) and conspiracy theories used by Trump to manipulate Over 50% of the American Voters and I will go read the polls that state Trump never had above 39% approval from self same voters. Those are both on the same News Media but I skip the "vague stories amplified by conservative media into conspiracy theories used by Trump to manipulate Over 50%..wait, I am in a loop.
I will say good night and nice talking to you all.
 
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Tom 1

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Frankly, I don't believe the Las Vegas Sun or the Federalist is just people saying stuff. What I posted is from newspapers mostly. That story about the Texas Mayor and the ballot fraud in Broward County was widely published as news. There are tons more articles, especially about how ballots were handled during this election but I don't think anything would convince you of voter fraud.
I leave you to the News Medias fantasy of vague stories amplified by conservative news sites (The Las Vegas Sun, Conservative?) and conspiracy theories used by Trump to manipulate Over 50% of the American Voters and I will go read the polls that state Trump never had above 39% approval from self same voters. Those are both on the same News Media but I skip the "vague stories amplified by conservative media into conspiracy theories used by Trump to manipulate Over 50%..wait, I am in a loop.
I will say good night and nice talking to you all.

It’s not a matter of opinion - you can just read them and see, do they offer anything to back up their assertions? If not, then they have no evidence. Accusations are not evidence, evidence is what is provided to give some substance to accusations. Read the Federalist article and tell me what you think is in there that should be considered as evidence.
 
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