Truth and Deceptions

Aaron_Bethlhm

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"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."


???
Death is still the penalty for sin. Did you believe that changed ?
 
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section9+1

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In the NT God is reconciled to the world. He is not in opposition to it though it remains in opposition to him. He's still the same God and he never changes. Only now we can have a new relationship with this unchanged OT God because of our mediator, Christ.
And the bible is true and honest.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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But the penalty and act of carrying out the punishment for sin changed dramatically between the New and Old.

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
⬆️the punishment for sin, is not receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, not to be murdered by man.

New Testament⬇️
Psalms 145:20 - "The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
⬆️he will destroy.... not he will command man to destroy/kill and was done in the OT.

Matthew 25:46 - "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Galatians 6:7 - "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

2 Corinthians 5:10 - "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad."

Luke 6:35-36
"But you must love your enemies and do good: and lend without expecting any return, and you will have a rich reward, you will be son of the most high, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked."
⬆️there wasn't much kindness shown to the ungrateful and the wicked in the old testament...

Old Testament
Leviticus 26:14-46
“But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, ..."

Chronicles 15:13-14
"and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

Deuteronomy 13:13-17
"And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God."

Isaiah 14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."

Deuteronomy 5:9
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"
⬆️⬇️ Huh???
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."


???
The only Spiritual penalty now is suffering the "second death".
 
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bèlla

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Religion and politics have historically proven to be useful tools for controlling the masses. Do I put it pass anyone to diddle with the bible? Of course not. That’s the first thing they’d touch since none would suspect it.

Some would decry, God would never permit it. I’d remind them of the litany of horrors that exist and ask them to revisit that statement.

Does it change the reality of God and His majesty? No. Do I place my trust in human agents? Never.

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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aiki

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

I think I've got good reason to think the Bible is true.

I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?

Interesting. I don't see the sharp difference between the God of the OT and the God of the NT that you seem to. God is operating with humans under a different dynamic in the OT than that of the NT, but the God of the former is definitely the God of the latter.
 
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Blade

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I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?

Bless you.. I hear ya. Almost seem like two different Gods. Yet Christ you see in the NT that only did only spoke what the Father said.. is the same. Faith.. know He is with you IN YOU. Ask the sweet sweet holy Spirit to open your eyes. Then KNOW He heard you. Know He will open your eyes.. what ever you ask the Father in JESUS name He will do it. You will see your Father like you never have before.

What will be shocking is.. its in plain sight. Oh lies worked into the religion yes and the bible? No
 
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Yarddog

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
I believe that the Bible is truth. It may or may not be literal fact but it is truth.
 
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chilehed

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Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Depending on what you mean: no.

Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
It's pretty clear that the answer to that is also no. For example, it doesn't have any math derivations or describe the Ideal Gas Law, and you'll have no luck using it to learn anything about organic chemistry or nuclear physics.
 
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fm107

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

You'll not find any lies in the Bible but the Bible does record lies, rape, murder, etc. This in itself is a testament that it is a true record.

Satan has however worked lies into Christendom and that through evil men, e.g. the lie of purgatory, praying to saints, the worship of Mary, a pope, etc - these things are believed and practiced in Catholicism but they are in contradiction to the Bible. The Bible is the acid test of which all that we believe and practice should be tested against. Sadly much of christendom has failed to follow what the Bible says. Christians are sad failures at following the Bible. The Bible never the less is totally true and dependable.

I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?

Rather than finding contradictions, I find a harmony between the old and new testaments.

The Jehovah of the Old Testament is the Jesus of the New Testament.

God's character is unchanging and He demands holiness in His people - both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament.

God's dealings with man are different in the Old Testament compared to the New Testament. The Old Testament is like a series of trials that God puts man through:

Man in innocence (Adam and Eve) - result = fail
Man under government (Noah) - result = fail
Man under promise (Abraham) - result = fail
Man under the law (Moses) - result = fail

God proves that man is totally incapable of meeting God's standards, under all these various conditions aimed at helping man. So then finally, God sent forth His Son (in accordance with His eternal plan). We come to realise none of us can obtain eternal life by meeting God's standards - all have sinned and even under all these conditions, we still fail miserably. We have inherited the fallen sinful nature from the federal head of the human race (Adam) - sinning comes natural to us. No one needs to teach a child how to lie, it comes naturally. But thankfully, at just the right time, Christ came, He has done the work and we can enter into the benefit of it and gain eternal life simply by believing, recognising that we can do nothing in ourselves to inherit eternal life.

God also used the time leading to Christ to reveal more and more about Himself.

Right, ok!
But isn't there a difference between bringing mankind along slowly and instructing barbaric behaviour ... and wouldn't God- The supreme being have a harmonious plan, beyond violence and destruction ?

Are you referring to where God commands the Israelites to wipe out the canaanites? God gave these wicked people 400 years to repent but they only got worse. The canaanites would sacrifice their babies to idols and done many acts of pure evil. In the end, God wiped them out but He used the Israelites as His tool for doing so.

God is most Holy and it is well within His right to kill evil people. He even grants governments the use of the death penalty so that evil is properly punished. God grants governments the death penalty in both the old and the new testaments. We don't appreciate enough, how Holy God is and how bad sin is. In our society, sin is celebrated.

In Matthew 10:16-22
It's says ... "be wary as serpents and innocent as doves. And be on guard, for MEN will hand you over to their courts, THEY will flog you in the synagogues.....when you are arrested, do not worry about wht you are to say.... the words will be given to you.... it will be the spirit of your father speaking in you... brother will betray brother to death, and the father his child, children will turn against their parents and send them to death, All will hate you for your allegiance to me..."

So is it not man that is the perpetrator of the evil doings in this case?

And then in Matthew 10:34-36
" I have not come to bring peace but a sword. I have come to set man against his father, a daughter against her mother....a man will find his enemies under his own roof...no man is worthy of me who cares more for father or mother than for me, no man is worthy of me who does not take up his cross and walk in my footsteps..."

It may be said that he brings a sword not peace, but in Ephesians 6:10-18
"Put on all the armour which God provides..."

The 6th piece of amour is a 'sword'

"For sword, take that which the spirit gives you. The words that come from God."

Is this not be the sword refered to in Matthew? To bring the words from God to the enemies in your home?

Bit of a contrasting description of what the nature and purpose of the sword is...in the OT & NT...

Exodus 32:27-29
"Levites all rallied to him. He said to them, these are the words of the Lord the God of Israel: Arm yourselves, each of you with a sword. Go through the camp from gate to gate and back again. Each of you kill his brother, his friend, his neighbour. The Levites obeyed and about three thousand of the people died that day."

???

Are you asking the differences between the swords?

Matthew 10:34-36 the sword here is symbolic, becoming a christian will bring persecution and divisions even between believers and non believers in households. A christian is always to be peaceable but in being a christian makes one unpopular, makes one hated, scorned, so the Lord Jesus is warning us here that being the Lord's disciple brings with it conflict, persecution, etc.

Ephesians 6:10-18 the sword here is the Bible, the word of God. That is the christians only weapon. We use it in times of trial and difficulty. The Lord used it when Satan tried to tempt Him in the wilderness, the Lord said, "it is written" then quoted scripture.

Exodus 32:27-29 these are literal swords used to kill people. Again here, the Lord uses the Israelites as His tool to kill the rebels. (Remember, an earthly king kills rebels in his Kingdom). God was ruler over His people and had these rebels killed. There are no theocracies today.

But the penalty and act of carrying out the punishment for sin changed dramatically between the New and Old.

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
⬆️the punishment for sin, is not receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, not to be murdered by man.

New Testament⬇️
Psalms 145:20 - "The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
⬆️he will destroy.... not he will command man to destroy/kill and was done in the OT.

Matthew 25:46 - "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Galatians 6:7 - "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

2 Corinthians 5:10 - "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad."

Luke 6:35-36
"But you must love your enemies and do good: and lend without expecting any return, and you will have a rich reward, you will be son of the most high, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked."
⬆️there wasn't much kindness shown to the ungrateful and the wicked in the old testament...

Old Testament
Leviticus 26:14-46
“But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, ..."

Chronicles 15:13-14
"and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

Deuteronomy 13:13-17
"And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God."

Isaiah 14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."

Deuteronomy 5:9
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"
⬆️⬇️ Huh???
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."


???

Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death. God is so serious about sin, he has given mankind the death sentence. We all die because we are all sinners. This is true in both old and new testaments.

You need to remember that in the Old Testament, God is dealing with Israel which was ruled as a theocracy. It was the nation of Israel who had agreed to be under the law and there were consequences to breaking their national laws (and blessings if they obeyed it).

These things are recorded so we can appreciate better the holiness of God, the seriousness of sin and we can see God's provision - the animal sacrifices pointed to Christ, the sin bearer.

But now that Christ has died, God acts in patience for whosoever will may come to Him for eternal life. 2 Peter 3:9
 
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ZagZig

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
I hold the bible to be the true and total inspired words of God.

However, I hold that all religions have errors and these are the seeds of dissension among those of different Christian faiths.
 
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Monksailor

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So is it not man that is the perpetrator of the evil doings in this case?
Yes. That is the point I was making. The evil of men received the judgement of God.

Is this not be the sword refered to in Matthew? To bring the words from God to the enemies in your home?
The sword Jesus was referring to was the sword or hate some converts would receive from their own family who rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus goes on to explain that.
 
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d taylor

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Then if you believe the Tanakh and the New Testament are different, what about during the Millennium reign of The Messiah. That is a very strict time of rule, God will rule the earth with an iron hand. handing out perfect swift justice. Even a person thoughts will be judged.
 
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d taylor

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Do you understand your peaceful Jesus, comes back at the second coming and His cloths are dripping of blood.

So many people are willing to only want the peaceful God and not the one who carries out perfect justice.

Kind of like accepting parts of the Bible that they agree and rejecting (turning these areas into metaphorical soup) areas that goes against their usually scientific or historical beliefs.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
Lord Jesus confirmed that the Bible is the truth. I'm not about to argue with Him.
 
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SANTOSO

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
Hi Jess !
Have you remembered that apostle Peter have spoken this :

For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in Him will never be put to shame.”

Now to I who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, ”

and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message–which is also what they were destined for.

But I am a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that I may declare the praises of Him who called me out of darkness into His wonderful light.-1 Peter 2:6-9

Therefore, Jess, be careful of the words that make you stumble and fall.

Remember what Jesus have spoken :
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. -John 6:63

Remember what apostle Paul have spoken:
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. -1 Corinthians 2:14

Likewise, apostle Paul have told us :
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, -2 Timothy 3:16
that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. -2 Timothy 3:17

That means all scripture in the old and New Testament are breathed by God; in other words, the things are written in the Spirit and are spiritually discerned.
 
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Tone

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@Jess347

Yah bless you little sister. I really appreciate your courage to face these deep considerations that you have.

It took me many years of heavy reading, studying and searching to be in a place where I really really really believe that I am able to stand fast in my confidence in Him and what I have heard of Him and from Him.

Below are a couple of resources that I recommend to you:

A Christian View of the Bible as Truth (The Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer, Vol. 2) Paperback – February 1, 2013
by Francis A. Schaeffer


And

https://www.labriideaslibrary.org/how-to-read-the-bible


When I experienced great vertigo, the works of Dr. Schaeffer were immeasurably helpful in my reorientation.

May Yah continue to bless your journey.

Shalom.


-T1
 
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zoidar

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Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

It's a really good question, thank you! Not sure what you mean by religion, but there is certainly a lot of theological "misstakes" out there for one reason or another.

The Bible itself is the Word of God, which has no lie within. There are certainly errors in the Bible like wrong dates and numbers etc. You can't call it lies though, for even those "errors" are the breathed Word of God.

From looking at your posts it seems you have a problem to coincide the NT texts with the OT texts. Is this correct?
 
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