Joel 2:28

Jamdoc

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He told the Jews living at that time to watch for that sign. In the parallel passage of Luke 21:20-24, it's indicated that what they were supposed to watch for was Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. That is exactly what happened around 70 AD when the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem and then attacked and destroyed the city and the temple buildings just as Jesus said would happen (Luke 19:41-44, Matt 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:5-6;21-24).

What many miss is that Jesus was asked 2 questions and they were about 2 different events. The first related to when the temple buildings would be destroyed. Remember, Jesus very specifically told the disciples that the temple buildings would be destroyed with no stone left upon another. That is exactly what happened in 70 AD.

But, He was also asked about His coming and the end of the age which has not yet occurred. His second coming is for the church, so the events of His second coming center around the church and not Jerusalem and Israel.
He gave His second coming with that acknowledgement that "This generation will not pass away" qualification.
Jesus didn't come in the clouds in AD70, so "this generation" was not the Apostles. But rather "this generation" meant the generation that began to see the signs of the end, and... many futurists, if not most, consider baby boomers to be the fig tree generation (I'd see an argument for Gen X because Jerusalem was not retaken until 1967)
But not the first century.
Revelation was written after AD70, and has references to a physical temple.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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He gave His second coming with that acknowledgement that "This generation will not pass away" qualification.
Jesus didn't come in the clouds in AD70, so "this generation" was not the Apostles.
I agree. Again, I believe part of the Olivet Discourse is about what happened in 70 AD and the rest is about the future second coming of Christ at the end of the age.
 
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Jamdoc

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I agree. Again, I believe part of the Olivet Discourse is about what happened in 70 AD and the rest is about the future second coming of Christ at the end of the age.
Except He gave it as one narrative.
He gave the beginning of sorrows, persecution, abomination of desolation, Great Tribulations, the sun and moon darkening, Him coming in the clouds, and the gathering of Elect.
That's the narrative He gave, then he stopped that timeline if you will, stepped outside of it and then described who would see all of those events happening, and said that generation would not pass, while giving 1 last cryptic symbol, the budding of the fig tree (hence fig tree generation)
If He'd not included the part about the sun and moon darkening and gathering the elect as happening all in that same narrative that included the abomination of desolation, I might see it your way. If he gave a clear break of events and time, I'd say, oh in this part He's talking about the destruction of the temple in AD70, in this part, His second coming.
But it all flowed together, and He gave the break in Narrative AFTER His second coming. to give us a timing (we may not know the day or the hour but would know the season, which seems to be now), and to give us warnings on how we are to behave when we start seeing those signs.
 
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Except He gave it as one narrative.
He gave the beginning of sorrows, persecution, abomination of desolation, Great Tribulations, the sun and moon darkening, Him coming in the clouds, and the gathering of Elect.
That's the narrative He gave, then he stopped that timeline if you will, stepped outside of it and then described who would see all of those events happening, and said that generation would not pass, while giving 1 last cryptic symbol, the budding of the fig tree (hence fig tree generation)
If He'd not included the part about the sun and moon darkening and gathering the elect as happening all in that same narrative that included the abomination of desolation, I might see it your way. If he gave a clear break of events and time, I'd say, oh in this part He's talking about the destruction of the temple in AD70, in this part, His second coming.
But it all flowed together, and He gave the break in Narrative AFTER His second coming. to give us a timing (we may not know the day or the hour but would know the season, which seems to be now), and to give us warnings on how we are to behave when we start seeing those signs.
Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Do you see here where Jesus told the disciples that the temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed with no stone left upon another? The disciples asked Him when that would happen. So, where do you think He answered that question? Surely, He wouldn't have avoided answering the question.
 
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Jamdoc

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Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Do you see here where Jesus told the disciples that the temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed with no stone left upon another? The disciples asked Him when that would happen. So, where do you think He answered that question? Surely, He wouldn't have avoided answering the question.

There are stones of the original temple still standing on top of each other.
in other words.. not fulfilled yet.
 
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jeffweedaman

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He told the Jews living at that time to watch for that sign. In the parallel passage of Luke 21:20-24, it's indicated that what they were supposed to watch for was Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. That is exactly what happened around 70 AD when the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem and then attacked and destroyed the city and the temple buildings just as Jesus said would happen (Luke 19:41-44, Matt 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:5-6;21-24).

What many miss is that Jesus was asked 2 questions and they were about 2 different events. The first related to when the temple buildings would be destroyed. Remember, Jesus very specifically told the disciples that the temple buildings would be destroyed with no stone left upon another. That is exactly what happened in 70 AD.


Amen Bro'.
Those rumors of war relate to the temple coming down, and verse 4 clearly suggests that those events are not associated with the end.
Exile would follow and did, and the Gentile times over Jerusalem would prevail until those times come to an end.
The Gospel would go to all tribes and tongues before the end comes.
 
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Jamdoc

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Oh brother. I don't buy that at all. We'll have to just agree to disagree.
because you force yourself to believe that it HAS to be a past event you will completely ignore physical evidence that it hasn't happened yet?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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because you force yourself to believe that it HAS to be a past event you will completely ignore physical evidence that it hasn't happened yet?
I already know that it did. I'm not hyper-literal like you, so I think over 99% of the stones of the temple buildings being destroyed is enough to say that the prophecy was fulfilled.

How do you interpret this passage:

Luke 19:41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
 
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Jamdoc

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I already know that it did. I'm not hyper-literal like you, so I think over 99% of the stones of the temple buildings being destroyed is enough to say that the prophecy was fulfilled.

How do you interpret this passage:

Luke 19:41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

I see type fulfillments happening in the past, that point to a literal eschatalogical fulfillment in the future. I see that across many prophecies.
The entire bible is telling basically one story of fall and redemption, with many smaller stories that point to the main story.
When something appears to be connected to a prophecy, that has happened in the past, I don't see "oh, this prophecy is fulfilled, we can ignore it now" I see "to be continued..."
Like Joel 2:28, I agree with Peter, it was fulfilled on Pentecost.
But I also see "to be continued..." and now I see it being fulfilled again, possibly because we're closing on the end.
 
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Timtofly

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Since you probably won't read the edit I'll just show it again.
Mark 8:31 Jesus says He'll be killed and after 3 days rise again.
Jesus was killed on Friday, and was resurrected on Sunday.
by our way of reckoning time "after 3 days" it would have been resurrecting on Tuesday, which is after the conclusion of the 3rd day after Jesus was killed.
But to the Hebrew reckoning day 1 was the day He was killed. Day 2 was Saturday, and after the start of the 3rd day was Sunday, when He was risen.
The Cross was prior to the High Sabbath which was the 15th of Nisan on a Thursday. Friday was in between the two Sabbaths. They added 3 nights as well, not just 3 nondescript days. Full day Thursday, full day Friday, and a full day Saturday. Christ rose any time after 6pm Saturday evening, which was the start of Sunday.
 
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Timtofly

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I think that we're coming up on the 70th week, and as a result, that blindness will end (at the abomination of desolation most likely), and I also think because we're coming up on the 70th week, that Joel 2:28 is happening too.

The blindness ends when they see the body that was pierced. That is the Second Coming, the 6th seal. The 6 Trumpets are the separation of the sheep and goats from living Israel. Trumpets will bring the Nation of Israel to the forfront.
 
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Timtofly

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another weird one last night.
I was in a kennel like a dog, and watched lesbians euthanize a man, and they were happy about it. Then I was next.
I had one dream this week where some man said, "in the beginning God created Adam and then turned him into a girl".
 
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