Well you explain then what you believe it means, since all the things I said + the scriptures I quoted, and all the things you said + scriptures you quoted, show what it means: It means we have no spiritual life in us
Finally, so you believe being "dead in our sins" or the prodigal son being "dead" means we have "no spiritual life".
I absolutely agree. No spiritual life = spiritually dead.
I've never said anything else. I've said over and over again that Adam=mankind (because we are all sons of Adam). I've said death came into Adam when he sinned, and I've quoted scriptures that teach this truth:
"Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world,
and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned:" Rom 5:12
"But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;" 1 Cor 15:20-23
I've never said or implied anything else. I've said, when Adam was created, he had a body and a soul, according to the scriptures. God breathed life into Adam and he became a
living soul, according to the scriptures. I've said that when Adam sinned, the Spirit of God no longer dwelt in him, therefore death came into him the moment he sinned, and so his body also died; and I said it does not matter how long after death came into Adam that his body died, death came into him the moment he sinned, and so death came to all men. I've mentioned the FACT that Jesus said unless we are
born of the Spirit we cannot see the Kingdom of God. We need to have spiritual life - the life of Christ in us.
We have no spiritual life in us and are dead in our sins until we are resurrected with Christ's resurrection, which only takes place as a result of being born of the Spirit of Christ.
Here's where I would disagree with you. We are not "dead in our sins" until the bodily resurrection. This is not something found in scripture.
I disagree that we are "dead in our sins" until our future bodily resurrection.
The NT is clear that we are "dead in our sins" until we come to Christ. It is the results of Christ's 1st advent that set us free from sin. It is the results of Christ's first advent that "made us alive" when we come to Him in repentance and faith, We go from lost (dead) to found (alive).
You are correct, but I was
not talking about
our future bodily resurrection (though admittedly I never made that clear, so my apologies for not making myself clear). I was talking about the fact that we have no spiritual life in us
until we are born of the Spirit. It is at
that point that we are
resurrected with Christ's resurrection:
"If ye then be
[συνεγε synegeírō] risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God." Col 3:1
"For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death,
we shall also be in the likeness of (His) [ἀνάστασις anástasis] the resurrection;" Rom 6:5
I was talking about the fact that we have no spiritual life in us until we are
born of the Spirit, at which point we die
with Christ through baptism into (His) death, and are
raised with Him - all scripture.
I was not saying that we have no spiritual life in us until we ourselves are bodily raised from the dead. Our own bodily resurrection comes because Chirst, the last Adam, is risen from the dead, and through spiritual
birth by His Spirit, we are found IN HIM:
Romans 8:10-11 "And
if Christ is in you, indeed
the body [σῶμα sōma] is dead because of sin, but the Spirit [πνεῦμα pneûma] is life because of (Christ's) righteousness - but if the Spirit [πνεῦμα pneûma] of the One who raised up [ἐγείρω egeírō] Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up [ἐγείρω egeírō] Christ from the dead
shall also vitalize [ζωοποιέωby zōopoiéō] your mortal [θνητός thnētós] bodies [σῶμα sōma] by His Spirit [πνεῦμα pneûma] who dwells in you."
Therefore whatever you say below we agree on:
Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life
Romans 6:10-11 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Romans 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved
colossians 2:13 you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses.
We agree on all of the above statements, but not on the words you choose for what you say below:
What are you talking about? I stated I believe being born from above = being baptized into Christ's death and raised with him to new life = being raised from death in our sins guarantees our future bodily resurrection and no longer being hurt by the 2nd death.
You also (falsely) call being
born from above a
spiritual resurrection (implying we were alive spiritually, lived spiritually and died spiritually). This is what our whole disagreement is about. The correct wording for what you said above is the wording found in scripture - which you have adjusted to mean
spiritual resurrection through a false theological interpretation of scripture.
The correct wording is:
When we were born from above by the Spirit of Christ, it resulted in our being baptized into Christ's death and our being raised to new life through and with His resurrection (since He is IN US and we IN HIM through our spiritual BIRTH by His Spirit), and this God has done for us even though we were dead in our sins, therefore our spiritual birth into Christ + Christ's resurrection from death guarantees our future bodily resurrection and no longer being hurt by the 2nd death, IF we die in Christ, having remained faithful to the end, and do not fall away or deny Christ before we die physically.
Your theology states:
When we were spiritually resurrected from the dead from above by the Spirit of Christ, it resulted in our being baptized into Christ's death and our being raised to new life through and with His resurrection (since He is IN US and we IN HIM through our spiritual resurrection from death by His Spirit), and this God has done for us even though we were dead in our sins, therefore our spiritual resurrection from death into Christ + Christ's resurrection from death guarantees our future bodily resurrection and no longer being hurt by the 2nd death, IF we die in Christ, having remained faithful to the end, and do not fall away or deny Christ before we die physically.
We were never alive spiritually - not when we were born of the flesh into the first Adam, and not until we were born of the Spirit. So we cannot be raised from the dead spiritually. We are only alive spiritually because we have been born of the Spirit of Christ.