Is There A Difference between Apostle and Disciple?

Albion · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
So apostles where chosen by Jesus who were predestined to have followed him, and disciples are those who learned about the faith from the apostles and also encouraged others to stay in faith in the most dire of times.

Apostles where chosen, and disciples learned about the faith and what was to be done to keep themselves pure.

Why are you saying this? Is it a summary of your thinking or is it what you think we've been saying in response to your posts?

AbbaLove · Nov 25, 2020

Some distinguish between an "Apostle" (1st Century) and "apostle" (2nd Century to present). Others consider an "apostle" (usually a man) as one that has established communities of believers (churches) via the working of the Holy Spirit through them as an obedient servant. Some might consider an evangelist like Heidi Baker to be a modern-day "apostle" although Heidi would never refer to herself as an "apostle" ... the thinking being that only men with supernatural empowering for healing and establishing communities (churches) of Believers should be referred to as a modern-day "apostle". If there ever was a modern-day woman apostle it would surely be Heidi Baker. However, many Christians consider Heidi's testimony too supernatural and too much to take in. The question is whether Heidi's testimony is an example of someone totally sold out as a true follower of Christ that Christendom doesn't know what to think of her "charismatic" calling ...

Though they have lost financial support due to their association with the Toronto movement, the Baker’s are loyal to its leaders and attend their Catch the Fire conferences in North America every year. Several leaders involved are active in the so-called New Apostolic Reformation, a controversial charismatic movement. But the Bakers do not promote the New Apostolic Reformation or consider themselves to be modern-day apostles.

Those that don't believe in modern-day "Apostles or "apostles" base it on 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 that the nine supernatural Spiritual Gifts passed away after the 1st Century. They (e.g. LDS and others) base their theological indoctrination on misinterpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

Others believe "that which is perfect is come" refers to the New Jerusalem on earth which is yet to come meaning the nine supernatural Gifts are still in operation today (the latter rain) ... Jeremiah 5:24, James 5:7. These verses and others refer primarily to Israel. That said the Pentecostal churches believe the latter rain began around the turn of the 20 century with the Azusa Street Revival and continued with the charismatic movement from the 60s to present.

And so the debate continues on who is a modern-day "apostle" depending on one's definition of an "apostle".

Albion · Nov 25, 2020

AbbaLove said:
Some distinguish between an "Apostle" (1st Century) and "apostle" (2nd Century to present). Others consider an "apostle" (usually a man) as one that has established communities of believers (churches) via the working of the Holy Spirit through them as an obedient servant. Some might consider an evangelist like Heidi Baker to be a modern-day "apostle" ....

But these people would be apostles only in the generic sense of the word, as messengers or emissaries, something akin to the more popular words evangelists or missionaries.

ViaCrucis · Nov 25, 2020

AbbaLove said:
Those that don't believe in modern-day "Apostles or "apostles" base it on 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 that the nine supernatural Spiritual Gifts passed away after the 1st Century.

This may be true of certain cessationists. But the historic Christian position has nothing to do with certain charisms of the Spirit "passing away", it's simply history. We don't have apostles after the apostolic age, not in the proper sense anyway. The Church hasn't had apostles since the apostles. The preservation of apostolic authority and preaching is in the sacred ministry and office of the Keys.

-CryptoLutheran

mlepfitjw · Nov 25, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
Chosen by Jesus? Yes--though there is the case of the Apostle Matthias who was chosen by the surviving eleven to succeed Judas Iscariot, so "personally handpicked by Jesus" isn't a strict criterion.

That they were somehow predestined in a special sense--apart from God's unconditional election of all believers--doesn't hold up to scrutiny. All who belong to Christ were predestined, by God's gracious election, not just the apostles.

You were predestined in Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

@ViaCrucis I don’t believe Matthias was an apostle, wasn’t he chosen by casting lots?

That disregards the position of being handpicked by God, instead was being picked by materially casting lots to see who would join the group.

Via, I would say I was drawn by God and his mercy which lead me to turning towards him, I could reject God and say ah f.

It I don’t want nothing to do with him anymore but his mercy had an effect on me which lead me to turning to him,

I wasn’t predestined and for someone like me to believe so would result in my exalting myself above others.

Albion said:
Why are you saying this? Is it a summary of your thinking or is it what you think we've been saying in response to your posts?

@Albion It is what I believe. No thinking, but what I believe to be truth.

The apostles where hand picked by God through his foreknowledge and election just like that of the saints which where to part of the bride Christ was coming back to Get.

there was someone who got cast lots for and that does not mean they were predestined by God to be an apostle like other 11 they just had a luck at a draw in a random lot casting activity and it being a material bargain doesn’t really mean much. He did join the group but we have literally nothing afterwards of what he had done.

Someone say he was predestined to be an apostle possibly even but nah it was like a luck of the draw type of deal between men not God.

AbbaLove said:
Some distinguish between an "Apostle" (1st Century) and "apostle" (2nd Century to present). Others consider an "apostle" (usually a man) as one that has established communities of believers (churches) via the working of the Holy Spirit through them as an obedient servant. Some might consider an evangelist like Heidi Baker to be a modern-day "apostle" although Heidi would never refer to herself as an "apostle" ... the thinking being that only men with supernatural empowering for healing and establishing communities (churches) of Believers should be referred to as a modern-day "apostle". If there ever was a modern-day woman apostle it would surely be Heidi Baker. However, many Christians consider Heidi's testimony too supernatural and too much to take in. The question is whether Heidi's testimony is an example of someone totally sold out as a true follower of Christ that Christendom doesn't know what to think of her "charismatic" calling ...

Though they have lost financial support due to their association with the Toronto movement, the Baker’s are loyal to its leaders and attend their Catch the Fire conferences in North America every year. Several leaders involved are active in the so-called New Apostolic Reformation, a controversial charismatic movement. But the Bakers do not promote the New Apostolic Reformation or consider themselves to be modern-day apostles.

Those that don't believe in modern-day "Apostles or "apostles" base it on 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 that the nine supernatural Spiritual Gifts passed away after the 1st Century. They (e.g. LDS and others) base their theological indoctrination on misinterpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

Others believe "that which is perfect is come" refers to the New Jerusalem on earth which is yet to come meaning the nine supernatural Gifts are still in operation today (the latter rain) ... Jeremiah 5:24, James 5:7. These verses and others refer primarily to Israel. That said the Pentecostal churches believe the latter rain began around the turn of the 20 century with the Azusa Street Revival and continued with the charismatic movement from the 60s to present.

And so the debate continues on who is a modern-day "apostle" depending on one's definition of an "apostle".

Very informative abba.

God bless everyone here who has posted and given their opinions, thoughts, beliefs on what an apostle and disciple is.

If anything we can learn from each other from our differences and try to live in the same mind of Christ Jesus and how he would love, hope all of you and your families are doing well and have a blessed day tomorrow if you are getting to spend time with your families.

nolidad · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
Hello you,

When Jesus Christ chose his disciples, who ended up being hand picked by Yeshua, the Apostles, where they the ones given an authority to perform miracles? (This is excludes the later chosen disciple - that was cast lots for joining in with the group.)

Is there a difference between an Apostle and Disciple?

Were the 12 Jewish hand picked Apostles different than everyone else because they had been chosen; predestined?

The 70 sent out early in Jesus minstry were empowered to do miracles to announce that the King and Kingdom for Israel were at hand!

god handpicks all for the offices of the church!

Formally? Apostles were the foundation leaders of teh church. There were 14 and only 14 Apostles. We are all a[postolos or sent ones in that we are sent, but only the 14 original held the office of Apostel.

A Disciple is a "mathetes" or learner. In Israel it was one who followed a rabbi to learn all the rabbi taught. All who are believers are called to be disciples. This is not a specific office of authority in the church but a mandate for all to be.

ViaCrucis · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
@ViaCrucis I don’t believe Matthias was an apostle, wasn’t he chosen by casting lots?

That disregards the position of being handpicked by God, instead was being picked by materially casting lots to see who would join the group.

The Bible says he was chosen by to replace Judas as one of the Twelve Apostles. If your view is in conflict with what Scripture says, then wouldn't it make sense that you should re-evaluate your position, rather than call Scripture into question?

Via, I would say I was drawn by God and his mercy which lead me to turning towards him, I could reject God and say ah f.

It I don’t want nothing to do with him anymore but his mercy had an effect on me which lead me to turning to him,

I wasn’t predestined and for someone like me to believe so would result in my exalting myself above others.

I think it's important to point out that within historic Protestantism there are two schools of thought on predestination: Reformed and Lutheran. I'm a Lutheran, and your objection to predestination sounds more like an objection to the Reformed/Calvinist view of predestination.

Predestination doesn't mean "God chose you, and so you can't help but be saved", it just means that God chose you, in Christ.

For the Lutheran perspective on this topic, there's not really a better resource than the Lutheran Confessions themselves, in particular the Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord and the Epitome of the Formula of Concord, which specifically addresses the Lutheran understanding of Predestination and Election.

The Solid Declaration on Election: Here.
The Epitome on Election: Here.

Yes, you were predestined in Christ, by the grace of God. You can turn away, reject it, fall away and shipwreck your faith. But you can't change God's love and mercy which He has for you. Christ is, as Luther put it, the bloodhound of heaven, or as our Lord Himself says, the Good Shepherd. He is relentless in His love. This is good news, to you, a sinner. Take comfort in God's relentless pursuit of you.

-CryptoLutheran

mlepfitjw · Nov 25, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
Yes there is a difference. It is explained in Ephesians 2:19-21. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Chief cornerstone and the Apostles and Prophets are the Foundation. Disciples, saints,citizens are in the Holy Temple known as the Kingdom of God. Be blessed.

Very informative at least we can see who we can rest in here! The ‘chief’ corner stone Jesus Christ who’s burden is light and yoke is easy.

mlepfitjw · Nov 25, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
The Bible says he was chosen by to replace Judas as one of the Twelve Apostles. If your view is in conflict with what Scripture says, then wouldn't it make sense that you should re-evaluate your position, rather than call Scripture into question?

I think it's important to point out that within historic Protestantism there are two schools of thought on predestination: Reformed and Lutheran. I'm a Lutheran, and your objection to predestination sounds more like an objection to the Reformed/Calvinist view of predestination.

Predestination doesn't mean "God chose you, and so you can't help but be saved", it just means that God chose you, in Christ.

For the Lutheran perspective on this topic, there's not really a better resource than the Lutheran Confessions themselves, in particular the Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord and the Epitome of the Formula of Concord, which specifically addresses the Lutheran understanding of Predestination and Election.

The Solid Declaration on Election: Here.
The Epitome on Election: Here.

Yes, you were predestined in Christ, by the grace of God. You can turn away, reject it, fall away and shipwreck your faith. But you can't change God's love and mercy which He has for you. Christ is, as Luther put it, the bloodhound of heaven, or as our Lord Himself says, the Good Shepherd. He is relentless in His love. This is good news, to you, a sinner. Take comfort in God's relentless pursuit of you.

-CryptoLutheran

can you prove it, with scripture? If not it okay, God bless you friend and have a good day. I’m gonna refrain from answering any more questions until later on tonight! Bye everyone

Gregorikos · Nov 25, 2020

Dave L said:
Only the 12 Apostles had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians. But they passed it on to some disciples by laying on of their hands. But the disciples could not pass it on. The exception was the outpouring of the Spirit 7 years later at Cornelius' house. All disciples had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit since Pentecost but the Baptism and gifts were a different time and place from the 2nd century on.

If it were true that only the 12 apostles had the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians, then why was that part of 1 Corinthians written at all? It wouldn't be written to someone who had no chance of using the gifts.

Dave L · Nov 25, 2020

Gregorikos said:
If it were true that only the 12 apostles had the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians, then why was that part of 1 Corinthians written at all? It wouldn't be written to someone who had no chance of using the gifts.

Paul administered the gifts to the Corinthians. He also wanted to go to Rome to do the same.

Gregorikos · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
Is there a difference between an Apostle and Disciple?

Let's get to the definitive answer to this question:

And when day came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles: Luke 6:13 (NRSV)

Gregorikos · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
can you prove it, with scripture? If not it okay, God bless you friend and have a good day. I’m gonna refrain from answering any more questions until later on tonight! Bye everyone

The Bible says:

And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles. Acts 1:26 (NRSV)

On the theory that the apostles "missed it" here, and that Paul was really the Lord's pick for the twelfth man, Paul disagrees. He did not include himself as one of the twelve.

and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 1 Corinthians 15:5-9 (NRSV)

Albion · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
I don’t believe Matthias was an apostle, wasn’t he chosen by casting lots?

He was chosen by the surviving Apostles to be the one to replace Judas.

That disregards the position of being handpicked by God,

You may say that, but if so, it also substantiates the concept called Apostolic Succession that has been described to you.

I wasn’t predestined and for someone like me to believe so would result in my exalting myself above others.

You might have been predestined, if predestination is true. And if you were, it wouldn't necessarily lead to pride since you couldn't be sure that you were predestined simply because you are a believer.

It is what I believe. No thinking, but what I believe to be truth.

Got it...and thanks for the reply to that. I wasn't sure which of us you were referring to with that overview.

He did join the group but we have literally nothing afterwards of what he had done.

That's so, but he was considered to be an Apostle.

It's not as though he was permitted by the 11 to tag along with them or be their business manager or anything else like that.

PaulCyp1 · Nov 25, 2020

The Apostles were not "predestined", but they were obviously chosen, individually selected by Jesus to be His closest followers, the first priests of His Church, setting them aside from all the other disciples. In His Church today, He has many millions of followers - disciples - but only selected disciples become priests, to continue the apostolic ministry to His Church, guiding the faithful, ministering the sacraments, as the first apostles were commanded to do in remembrance of Him, at the Last Supper.

mlepfitjw · Nov 25, 2020

Gregorikos said:
The Bible says:

And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles. Acts 1:26 (NRSV)

On the theory that the apostles "missed it" here, and that Paul was really the Lord's pick for the twelfth man, Paul disagrees. He did not include himself as one of the twelve.

and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 1 Corinthians 15:5-9 (NRSV)

Albion said:
He was chosen by the surviving Apostles to be the one to replace Judas.

You may say that, but if so, it also substantiates the concept called Apostolic Succession that has been described to you.

You might have been predestined, if predestination is true. And if you were, it wouldn't necessarily lead to pride since you couldn't be sure that you were predestined simply because you are a believer.

Got it...and thanks for the reply to that. I wasn't sure which of us you were referring to with that overview.

That's so, but he was considered to be an Apostle.

It's not as though he was permitted by the 11 to tag along with them or be their business manager or anything else like that.

Oh okay. cool cool I might be wrong.

Aaron_Bethlhm · Nov 25, 2020

That's controversial. (i.e. not accepted by everyone )
(some previous posts, I lost track)

chad kincham · Nov 25, 2020

Agallagher said:
Hello you,

When Jesus Christ chose his disciples, who ended up being hand picked by Yeshua, the Apostles, where they the ones given an authority to perform miracles? (This is excludes the later chosen disciple - that was cast lots for joining in with the group.)

Is there a difference between an Apostle and Disciple?

Were the 12 Jewish hand picked Apostles different than everyone else because they had been chosen; predestined?

Apostle means messenger.

Paul lists the office of apostle among other gifts such as teaching:

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

And the gifts have no expiration date of ending with the apostles deaths.

Miracles weren’t limited to the apostles, either.

Stephen was no apostle, but did great miracles.

The gifts to the church end when Jesus returns and they are no longer needed.

Shalom.

chad kincham · Nov 25, 2020

Norbert L said:
The Apostle Paul makes a statement about two different kinds of apostles Galatians 1:1 ESV. "Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—".

He distinguishes between two different types of apostles, one is given authority through man, the other has his authority from Jesus Christ.

That’s incorrect exegesis.

Paul said no man gave him the gospel he preached, but only Jesus - no mention of apostleship:

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

chad kincham · Nov 25, 2020

Albion said:
Not really. And note that Paul is not saying that there are other Apostles who WERE chosen by men; he is simply stating that his own authority as an Apostle did not come from men but from God himself.

The Twelve were chosen and commissioned personally by Christ, who is God...and Paul was, according to the Bible, also chosen directly and commissioned directly by God when he was stricken from his horse while on the road to Damascus.

Actually Paul’s not even talking about apostleship, but about the source of the gospel he preached.

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Shalom.

Is There A Difference between Apostle and Disciple?

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