what will happen to the Jews?

Clare73

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“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul
shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

"Cut off" means put to death:

"Any Israelite or alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. . .I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people." (Lev 20:2-3)

Failure to circumcise resulted in the cutting off of death, as Moses learned in Ex 4:24-26.

"Cut off" does not mean exiled.
.
 
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Dave L

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"Cut off" means put to death:

"Any Israelite or alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. . .I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people."

Failure to circumcise resulted in the cutting off of death, as Moses learned in Ex 4:24-26.

"Cut off" does not mean exiled.
.
It means they remained gentiles and not part of Israel.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I do not believe there are Jews anymore.

I believe they were pretty much obliterated along time ago in 70 ad. Which lead to the destruction of Jerusalem... the genealogy of Jews was demolished in my view.

So there is no real Jewish person in my opinion.

Only people who follow traditions of what once was the Jewish way, has survived all this time.

Which people claim the title of being 'Jewish' because of an upbringing in their lifetime.

(No offense to anyone here who believes they are Jew) -- I know there is no difference between Jew and Gentile when it comes to believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why would you believe this, when history is pretty clear that this isn't true.

For one, there were Jewish diaspora communities all over the ancient world, all over the Roman Empire, and also in Ethiopia, Persia, Arabia, and India.

For another, Eusebius tells us that the Jewish Christians of Jerusalem fled to Pella to wait out the conflict, and in fact at the end of the Bar Kocbha rebellion in 135 there was still a Jewish Christian bishop of Jerusalem, Judah Kyriakos, the great-grandson of St. Jude the Lord's brother.

For another, there was the Bar Kochba rebellion, as mentioned, so clearly there were still Jews after 70 AD, in significant numbers to rise up for a second revolt. It was this rebellion that led to the expulsion of all Jews from Jerusalem by order of Hadrian, and Hadrian remade Jerusalem into a Roman colony--Aelia Capitolina, who then also built a temple of Jupiter on the Temple Mount. Under Constantine the temple to Jupiter was torn down. And during the reign of Julian the Apostate, Julian granted the Jews to return and even sponsored the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, however historians record that an earthquake halted efforts, and then with Julian's sudden death, the project was cut short, and under his successor Jovian the old policy of forbidding Jews into Jerusalem was reinstated. Which wouldn't be overturned until the Sassanids took over the area, allowing the Jews back, and then with the Muslim conquest of the area under the Rashidun Caliphate the Jews continued to be allowed to live there again.

I mean, all of this, and a whole lot more, is all firmly well attested historically. There's literally no reason to believe that in 70 AD every Jew in the world suddenly was gone.

Modern Jews are Jews. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mlepfitjw

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Why would you believe this, when history is pretty clear that this isn't true.

For one, there were Jewish diaspora communities all over the ancient world, all over the Roman Empire, and also in Ethiopia, Persia, Arabia, and India.

For another, Eusebius tells us that the Jewish Christians of Jerusalem fled to Pella to wait out the conflict, and in fact at the end of the Bar Kocbha rebellion in 135 there was still a Jewish Christian bishop of Jerusalem, Judah Kyriakos, the great-grandson of St. Jude the Lord's brother.

For another, there was the Bar Kochba rebellion, as mentioned, so clearly there were still Jews after 70 AD, in significant numbers to rise up for a second revolt. It was this rebellion that led to the expulsion of all Jews from Jerusalem by order of Hadrian, and Hadrian remade Jerusalem into a Roman colony--Aelia Capitolina, who then also built a temple of Jupiter on the Temple Mount. Under Constantine the temple to Jupiter was torn down. And during the reign of Julian the Apostate, Julian granted the Jews to return and even sponsored the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, however historians record that an earthquake halted efforts, and then with Julian's sudden death, the project was cut short, and under his successor Jovian the old policy of forbidding Jews into Jerusalem was reinstated. Which wouldn't be overturned until the Sassanids took over the area, allowing the Jews back, and then with the Muslim conquest of the area under the Rashidun Caliphate the Jews continued to be allowed to live there again.

I mean, all of this, and a whole lot more, is all firmly well attested historically. There's literally no reason to believe that in 70 AD every Jew in the world suddenly was gone.

Modern Jews are Jews. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

-CryptoLutheran
.

It’s just a handed down tradition that no longer exist since God got rid of material religion. That’s why I’m skeptical of people being as authenticity of their Jewish heritage, things were much different from Old Testament to the New Testament, and things changed after 70 ad. So claiming Jewish based on handed down traditional ways doesn’t make a Jew necessarily in my own opinion.
 
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ViaCrucis

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.

It’s just a handed down tradition that no longer exist since God got rid of material religion. That’s why I’m skeptical of people being as authenticity of their Jewish heritage, things were much different from Old Testament to the New Testament, and things changed after 70 ad. So claiming Jewish based on handed down traditional ways doesn’t make a Jew necessarily in my own opinion.

There has always been a Jewish community, history attests to this.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Clare73

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It means they remained gentiles and not part of Israel.
The seed of Abraham (Israel) were never Gentiles (Ex 1:1).

Where do you find in Scripture that "Christ abolished circumcision"?
.
 
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Dave L

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The seed of Abraham were never Gentiles.

Where do you find in Scripture that "Christ abolished circumcision"?
.
Over 300 were gentiles originally. Only Ishmael was related to him at that time.
 
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Dave L

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Why would you believe this, when history is pretty clear that this isn't true.

For one, there were Jewish diaspora communities all over the ancient world, all over the Roman Empire, and also in Ethiopia, Persia, Arabia, and India.

For another, Eusebius tells us that the Jewish Christians of Jerusalem fled to Pella to wait out the conflict, and in fact at the end of the Bar Kocbha rebellion in 135 there was still a Jewish Christian bishop of Jerusalem, Judah Kyriakos, the great-grandson of St. Jude the Lord's brother.

For another, there was the Bar Kochba rebellion, as mentioned, so clearly there were still Jews after 70 AD, in significant numbers to rise up for a second revolt. It was this rebellion that led to the expulsion of all Jews from Jerusalem by order of Hadrian, and Hadrian remade Jerusalem into a Roman colony--Aelia Capitolina, who then also built a temple of Jupiter on the Temple Mount. Under Constantine the temple to Jupiter was torn down. And during the reign of Julian the Apostate, Julian granted the Jews to return and even sponsored the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, however historians record that an earthquake halted efforts, and then with Julian's sudden death, the project was cut short, and under his successor Jovian the old policy of forbidding Jews into Jerusalem was reinstated. Which wouldn't be overturned until the Sassanids took over the area, allowing the Jews back, and then with the Muslim conquest of the area under the Rashidun Caliphate the Jews continued to be allowed to live there again.

I mean, all of this, and a whole lot more, is all firmly well attested historically. There's literally no reason to believe that in 70 AD every Jew in the world suddenly was gone.

Modern Jews are Jews. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

-CryptoLutheran
Study the role of circumcision before you commit to a position.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Study the role of circumcision before you commit to a position.

I have, hitherto, only spoken of historical facts. I don't know why you have brought circumcision to me. I do not regard circumcision to be of any relevance under the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

But as it pertains to the major question of this thread: I maintain hope that all will be saved, for it is the will and desire of God that all be saved by the Gospel. For both Jew and Gentile. How all things will ultimately play out, or what everything will ultimately look in the end isn't for me to say or to speculate, but to leave to God who so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Dave L

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I have, hitherto, only spoken of historical facts. I don't know why you have brought circumcision to me. I do not regard circumcision to be of any relevance under the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

But as it pertains to the major question of this thread: I maintain hope that all will be saved, for it is the will and desire of God that all be saved by the Gospel. For both Jew and Gentile. How all things will ultimately play out, or what everything will ultimately look in the end isn't for me to say or to speculate, but to leave to God who so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son.

-CryptoLutheran
Circumcision made one a Physical Jew or a Physical member of Israel. Until Christ abolished it on the cross. Only biblical Israel today are Born again Christians.
 
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Clare73

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Clare73

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Not until he circumcised them. Circumcision made one his covenant seed, not blood-line.
Where do we find in Scripture these 300 Gentiles Abraham circumcised before the birth of Isaac a year later?
.
 
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Dave L

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Where do we find in Scripture these 300 Gentiles Abraham circumcised before the birth of Isaac a year later?
.
“And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:11–14 (KJV 1900)
 
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Clare73

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“And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:11–14 (KJV 1900)
So he had 300 slaves?
.
 
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Clare73

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It means they remained gentiles and not part of Israel.
But suppose at some point down the line the offender was the direct seed of Isaac who had never been a Gentile. "Cut off" would not mean he remained a Gentile when he never was one.
.
 
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Dave L

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But suppose at some point down the line the offender was the direct seed of Isaac who had never been a Gentile. "Cut off" would not mean he remained a Gentile when he never was one.
.
They are all gentiles who became physical members of Israel, and physical Jews through circumcision. If not circumcised they remained gentiles. Ishmael was demoted to gentile status even though he was circumcised and related to Abraham. It's not about blood.
 
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Clare73

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It means they remained gentiles and not part of Israel.
"Any Israelite or alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. . .I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people." (Lev 20:2-3)

Failure to circumcise resulted in the cutting off of death, as Moses learned in Ex 4:24-26.

I see Lev 20 as sentencing
death (karath--cut down, asunder) in vv. 12-17,
barrenness in vv. 19-21,

Ge 17:4 sentencing death (karath), as demonstrated in Ex 4:24-26, and

the promise of Ge 15:5 to mean Abraham's seed only.
.
 
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Dave L

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"Any Israelite or alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. . .I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people." (Lev 20:2-3)

Failure to circumcise resulted in the cutting off of death, as Moses learned in Ex 4:24-26.

I see Lev 20 as sentencing
death in vv. 12-17, and
barrenness in vv. 19-21.
Ishmael was cut off and remained living.
 
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