ok then have it your way if you don't want to discuss God and how He has made man.
hope this helps !!!
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The connection between the Physical and Spiritual
- Thread starter Jesus is YHWH
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hope this helps !!!
Aaron_Bethlhm
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Is that what you want to discuss? If so, post what interests you or what you have a question about.... (not vague or unseen links)
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ViaCrucis
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From a Lutheran POV:
"Nor is this eternal election or ordination of God to eternal life to be considered in God’s secret, inscrutable counsel in such a bare manner as though it comprised nothing further, or as though nothing more belonged to it, and nothing more were to be considered in it, than that God foresaw who and how many were to be saved, who and how many were to be damned, or that He only held a [sort of military] muster, thus: 'This one shall be saved, that one shall be damned; this one shall remain steadfast [in faith to the end], that one shall not remain steadfast.'" - The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article XI, 9
"4. The predestination or eternal election of God, however, extends only over the godly, beloved children of God, being a cause of their salvation, which He also provides, as well as disposes what belongs thereto. Upon this [predestination of God] our salvation is founded so firmly that the gates of hell cannot overcome it. John 10:28; Matt. 16:18.
5. This [predestination of God] is not to be investigated in the secret counsel of God, but to be sought in the Word of God, where it is also revealed.
6. But the Word of God leads us to Christ, who is the Book of Life, in whom all are written and elected that are to be saved in eternity, as it is written Eph. 1:4: He hath chosen us in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world.
7. This Christ calls to Himself all sinners and promises them rest, and He is in earnest [seriously wills] that all men should come to Him and suffer themselves to be helped, to whom He offers Himself in His Word, and wishes them to hear it and not to stop their ears or [neglect and] despise the Word. Moreover, He promises the power and working of the Holy Ghost, and divine assistance for perseverance and eternal salvation [that we may remain steadfast in the faith and attain eternal salvation].
8. Therefore we should judge concerning this our election to eternal life neither from reason nor from the Law of God, which lead us either into a reckless, dissolute, Epicurean life or into despair, and excite pernicious thoughts in the hearts of men, for they cannot, as long as they follow their reason, successfully refrain from thinking: If God has elected me to salvation, I cannot be condemned, no matter what I do; and again: If I am not elected to eternal life, it is of no avail what good I do; it is all [all my efforts are] in vain anyway.
9. But it [the true judgment concerning predestination] must be learned alone from the holy Gospel concerning Christ, in which it is clearly testified that God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all, and that He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and believe in the Lord Christ. Rom. 11:32; Ezek. 18:23; 33:11; 1 John 2:2." - Epitome of the Formula of Concord, Article XI, Affirmative Theses 4-9
Predestination pertains solely to Election, and Election is solely found in the Gospel by which God not only knows, but efficiently calls us to Himself by the Gospel; our Election is not found in God's inscrutible and secret will, but plainly and visibly in God's Word, in His Word and Sacraments (e.g. Baptizatus Sum, "I am baptized" is the affirmation of God's truthful promise to us that we are His, which He Himself has accomplished for us by His efficacious Word).
And this is not about God picking and choosing whom to save, for it is the will of God that all be saved, for Christ died for all, even for those who resist and reject Him. For, as the Apostle St. Paul has said, God consigned all to disobedience that He might have mercy on all (Romans 11:32), and indeed, that Christ died for the whole world, that Christ came to save sinners, that God is the "Savior of all men" (1 Timothy 4:10) and that by Christ all have been justified (Romans 5:18), and in so many places we read of God's will and desire that none should perish but that all should be saved.
Thus God does not pick and choose who will and will not be saved; but it is true that God has chosen us, by His unconditional grace and election in Jesus Christ, to be saved.
Predestination is neither mere foreknowledge, and neither is it a picking and choosing of who to save. It is, instead, the gracious working of God through His Gospel, from all eternity, to be the effectual cause of our salvation through His Word, in Christ, which He has indeed truly accomplished in Christ, and delivers and appropriates to us through the Gospel, through faith.
Therefore salvation is the alone-work of God. Damnation, however, is not the work of God, but the work of man who refuses, resists, and condemns himself by his own sin and insists upon himself.
God alone saves.
Man alone damns.
-CryptoLutheran
"Nor is this eternal election or ordination of God to eternal life to be considered in God’s secret, inscrutable counsel in such a bare manner as though it comprised nothing further, or as though nothing more belonged to it, and nothing more were to be considered in it, than that God foresaw who and how many were to be saved, who and how many were to be damned, or that He only held a [sort of military] muster, thus: 'This one shall be saved, that one shall be damned; this one shall remain steadfast [in faith to the end], that one shall not remain steadfast.'" - The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article XI, 9
"4. The predestination or eternal election of God, however, extends only over the godly, beloved children of God, being a cause of their salvation, which He also provides, as well as disposes what belongs thereto. Upon this [predestination of God] our salvation is founded so firmly that the gates of hell cannot overcome it. John 10:28; Matt. 16:18.
5. This [predestination of God] is not to be investigated in the secret counsel of God, but to be sought in the Word of God, where it is also revealed.
6. But the Word of God leads us to Christ, who is the Book of Life, in whom all are written and elected that are to be saved in eternity, as it is written Eph. 1:4: He hath chosen us in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world.
7. This Christ calls to Himself all sinners and promises them rest, and He is in earnest [seriously wills] that all men should come to Him and suffer themselves to be helped, to whom He offers Himself in His Word, and wishes them to hear it and not to stop their ears or [neglect and] despise the Word. Moreover, He promises the power and working of the Holy Ghost, and divine assistance for perseverance and eternal salvation [that we may remain steadfast in the faith and attain eternal salvation].
8. Therefore we should judge concerning this our election to eternal life neither from reason nor from the Law of God, which lead us either into a reckless, dissolute, Epicurean life or into despair, and excite pernicious thoughts in the hearts of men, for they cannot, as long as they follow their reason, successfully refrain from thinking: If God has elected me to salvation, I cannot be condemned, no matter what I do; and again: If I am not elected to eternal life, it is of no avail what good I do; it is all [all my efforts are] in vain anyway.
9. But it [the true judgment concerning predestination] must be learned alone from the holy Gospel concerning Christ, in which it is clearly testified that God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all, and that He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and believe in the Lord Christ. Rom. 11:32; Ezek. 18:23; 33:11; 1 John 2:2." - Epitome of the Formula of Concord, Article XI, Affirmative Theses 4-9
Predestination pertains solely to Election, and Election is solely found in the Gospel by which God not only knows, but efficiently calls us to Himself by the Gospel; our Election is not found in God's inscrutible and secret will, but plainly and visibly in God's Word, in His Word and Sacraments (e.g. Baptizatus Sum, "I am baptized" is the affirmation of God's truthful promise to us that we are His, which He Himself has accomplished for us by His efficacious Word).
And this is not about God picking and choosing whom to save, for it is the will of God that all be saved, for Christ died for all, even for those who resist and reject Him. For, as the Apostle St. Paul has said, God consigned all to disobedience that He might have mercy on all (Romans 11:32), and indeed, that Christ died for the whole world, that Christ came to save sinners, that God is the "Savior of all men" (1 Timothy 4:10) and that by Christ all have been justified (Romans 5:18), and in so many places we read of God's will and desire that none should perish but that all should be saved.
Thus God does not pick and choose who will and will not be saved; but it is true that God has chosen us, by His unconditional grace and election in Jesus Christ, to be saved.
Predestination is neither mere foreknowledge, and neither is it a picking and choosing of who to save. It is, instead, the gracious working of God through His Gospel, from all eternity, to be the effectual cause of our salvation through His Word, in Christ, which He has indeed truly accomplished in Christ, and delivers and appropriates to us through the Gospel, through faith.
Therefore salvation is the alone-work of God. Damnation, however, is not the work of God, but the work of man who refuses, resists, and condemns himself by his own sin and insists upon himself.
God alone saves.
Man alone damns.
-CryptoLutheran
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I was born into the church as an infant and went through confirmation as a young teenager.
I wasn't saved until years later when I was 20 but no longer a member of the Lutheran Church.
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RickReads
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I visited the Lutheran church. I didn`t think much of it at the time. Just another dead church IMO. But I like his theology quite a bit. More than I ever would have expected.
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