God permits evil because we need to know
- Thread starter ImAllLikeOkWaitWat
- Start date
timothyu
Well-Known Member
- Dec 31, 2018
- 22,524
- 8,427
- Country
- Canada
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
It wasn't a school teaching a sales pitch. Sowing seeds by setting the example of the Kingdom by loving all as self (complete with example of a samaritan) and away we go. We are a way of life... living advertisements of the Kingdom, not sales agents for a religion, IMO
Upvote
0
- Oct 16, 2004
- 10,777
- 928
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Hope I haven't derailed this thread too badly, maybe I should leave it at that.
Upvote
0
childeye 2
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2018
- 4,960
- 2,885
- 66
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I think we need to qualify our terms to understand one another. I'm saying that there is a blindness in mankind that believes we are free to decide to do evil/sin because we are also free to decide not to. Note the difference between these two statements:
1) We need to first confess/admit our sins and our deliberate wickedness, before God will have anything to do with us.
2) We can't confess/admit our sins unless the Holy Spirit first convicts us of sin and reveals to us our wickedness.
Above, #1 expresses that we see our sin, and #2 expresses that we do not.
Now look at these scripture which I believe speaks to (2) as being correct:
Romans:
2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
John 9:
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Upvote
0
- Oct 16, 2004
- 10,777
- 928
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
(1) Jesus did not attend seminary. Prophethood was enough for Him.I hold to both.
(2) He did not send His disciples to seminary. Prophethood was enough for them.
(3) The epistles never command the churches to pursue Bible scholarship. Paul did advise Timothy to study the Scriptures but he called Timothy a "man of God" (2Tim 3:17), which is a rubric for a prophet. In the hands of a prophet, Scripture is profitable (verse 16). In the hands of a fallible Bible scholar it is potentially a recipe for disaster.
(4) Paul DID command the whole church to seek the gift of prophecy (1Cor 14:1). His essay on love was only 8 verses (13:1-8) while his discussion on prophecy was a whopping 40 verses. Don't forget the 31 verses in chapter 12, on the gifts. Did I neglect to mention verses 2:6 - 3:2 ? That's another 12 verses on prophethood - most people don't realize it because he used different terminology there.
(5) There is simply no clear biblical basis for the exegetical approach (and plenty of reasons to reject it). For example the Bereans POSSIBLY practiced exegesis, but it's equally likely they were wise enough to look to the Light of the Holy Spirit as their guide.
Admittedly I myself practice exegesis - but merely as a crutch - until I become a prophet.
Not sure what that means. If you believe that exegesis is the ONLY final authority, I think that places you squarely in the Sola Scriptura party.I hold to both.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Aug 6, 2007
- 8,191
- 2,450
- 37
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
In Union with God there is equilibrium. Everything is perfectly ordered in a way that would probably be impossible to describe. I'm a weak limited creature and by my very nature I will put limits on God. one important thing for spiritual life is to try to increase your receptivity to God.
No matter what, no matter which way you take there will be dangers. the bad vessels are to be destroyed and the good ones are there to exalt God. Be happy when God destroys those things in us that are unworthy of him. Try to know yourself well and know the nature of God, then you can see what's incompatible. Without God we would all be dead.
for me I can understand no greater thing in life than to know God and to be near him. Or to be his will in this world. But look at how many humans are caught up in things that don't matter. We often cheat ourselves. but at the same time it's important that we be ourselves. I'm sure that God very much wants this.
No matter what, no matter which way you take there will be dangers. the bad vessels are to be destroyed and the good ones are there to exalt God. Be happy when God destroys those things in us that are unworthy of him. Try to know yourself well and know the nature of God, then you can see what's incompatible. Without God we would all be dead.
for me I can understand no greater thing in life than to know God and to be near him. Or to be his will in this world. But look at how many humans are caught up in things that don't matter. We often cheat ourselves. but at the same time it's important that we be ourselves. I'm sure that God very much wants this.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
I am not so concerned in hearing the private interpretations of others like Calvin and or Gordon Fee.(The witness of men). As a apologist its not their faith that protects us that we defend. Its the word of God as it is written. It comes from hearing God's interpretation the Bible . Not our private interpretations as personsonal commentaries
We put it on as it is written . . . our armor. it shields us from the spirit of error the father of lies. Satan remains giving his lying signs as false wonders to those who would add to the perfect. God sends them a strong delusion so they can go on wondering and not coming to His faith as it is written (sola scriptura)
The witness of God is greater than that of men .He knows all things even the hidden things he reveals in parables. Hiding the gospel understanding form those who do look to the witness of men
The faith of Christ that worked in Paul converted him it as the witness of our unseen God again it was after no man.. just as the conversion of all who have been born again from above.
We can plant the incorruptible seed (Christ) by which men are born again from above and water it with the doctrines of God .But unless he applies it to our new born again heart we have not heard his voice . He will not share the glory of salvation(the gospel)with the creature.
1 Corinthians 3:6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
God is no longer brining any new revelations in any manner. We have the perfect law as it is written .It works in us to both will and empower us to perform his good pleasure. In that way as he gives us ears to hear his understanding in every thing we do if we do do not harden our hearts and deny Him . As in he who has new ears; "let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches" .Every denomination that names His name
There are no laws missing in the Bible by which we could know our God more adequately .We have the perfect law that does work in our new born again hearts as it is written
The warning is not to add or subtract from the whole in the last chapter of the book of law the Bible .
Sola scriptura remains the reforming, restoring authority in matters of faith (the unseen eternal things of God) in any generation where two or three (a family called a denomination/sect ) ,or two or three million(a larger denomination) gather together under the hearing of his faith, or His name .
Matthew 18:20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Parables which without Christ the teacher spoke not are prophecy.
Prophecy makes up the gospel as the poetic or signified tongue of God .
Signified using the temporal things seen the give us the unseen understand hid in parable. I would offer it why he has given us the tool for rightly dividing the parable .They teach us how to walk by faith, the unseen things of God.
The 20/20 prescription that the Doctor of our soul faithfully orders so that we can seek His approval as he commanded us to and not so much the approval of each other.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Upvote
0
- Oct 16, 2004
- 10,777
- 928
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Yeah, sorry, I'm not seeing high-quality responses from you. Your posts seem to:
(1) repeat assertions already addressed and challenged
(2) gloss over a number of salient points that I made
(3) erect and knock down strawmen
(4) depend on shallow arguments
(5) suffer from a lack of clarity in some places
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Shallow arguments like sola scriptura the one reforming authority of God in any generation ?
Is sola scriptura (all thing written in the law and prophets. . the Bible) the sole authority in matters of faith .Our unseen God?
If not what is your teaching authority in matters of faith the unseen eternal?. . . Dreams or out of body experiences as if experience was the validator of the unseen things of God and not his written word? (sola scriptura. . as it is written )
What was the outcome in Mathew 4 when Jesus the Son of man experienced a vision of all the kingdoms of the god of this world (Satan) and all its glory. Was it a lying wonder?
What were the words the father gave to the Son on man in order to rebuke the lying spirit of error all three times?
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
- Oct 16, 2004
- 10,777
- 928
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Sorry you're very confused. The prophet Abraham was light-years ahead of us spiritually and yet had no Bible. He spoke with God face to face all the time. Take a look at Gen 18 where God comes over to his house for supper, Abraham fires him up a loaf of bread and a beef steak, and they chat together during the meal. When is the last time God came over to your house for supper?
Did I mention that Abraham is the exemplary model for all believers? When the Galatians fell back into Sola Scriptura, Paul called them fools, reminded them of the primacy of visions and Direct Revelation ("the hearing of faith") and adduced Abraham's experienced vision/voice at Gen 15 as the prime example for us all to emulate. And this was AFTER reminding the Galatians that he himself (Paul) was converted by Direct Revelation (on the Road to Damascus) - it was vision/voice.
The NT selected the prophet Abraham as the principal paradigm of faith PRECISELY BECAUSE he didn't have a Bible. In other words it was TRYING TO WARN US against Sola Scriptura.
As mentioned earlier, if you want to understand my epistemology, you'll need to read this thread:
How Direct Revelation Trumps Sola Scriptura | Christian Forums
That thread has too many arguments to repeat here. But even the opening post alone parries every objection that you just raised. Also I raised other arguments here on the current thread also effective in parrying your objections, which you ignored.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Oct 16, 2004
- 10,777
- 928
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Yes, shallow, for reasons stated even on the current thread, in posts such as:
123 129 134 139 142 157 159
Look, Sola Scriptura is the claim that
(1) Scripture is the only final authority.
(2) Therefore all religious imperatives must come from Scripture alone.
Total nonsense, right? (Shallow is too kind a word). After all, where then did we get the imperative to accept the Bible? Obviously there MUST be an imperative that ranks higher in our lives than exegesis - it is THAT higher imperative that (daily) DICTATES our decision to accept or reject the book.
So specifically what is this higher imperative? In my last response to you, I linked you to a thread that proposes - and defends - the only one that seems logically feasible.
And this imperative is precisely what Direct Revelation (such as the Inward Witness) trades on. That is the argument. That is WHY Moses obeyed a voice commanding him to slaughter 7 nations - the authority of this imperative is undeniable and unimpeachable.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The Spirit of truth called God the imperial one worked in Moses to both will (reveal) and empower him to do the good pleasure of the same Spirit of truth called Logos. The glory of our unseen God who dwells in born again men .The law of faith. Not the theory of faith. We simply do not know God after the shallow philosophies of men as if God was a man made up of the rudiments of this world and there was a infallible fleshly umpire set between God not seen and mankind seen .
God’s Authority as it is written is Eternal. He is not adding to it. No need for that to those who walk by the unseen eternal.
Is there something missing in the Bible by which we could know our invisible God more adequately?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Oct 16, 2004
- 10,777
- 928
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
This is my typical exchange with you. I just showed you that Sola Scriptura is a contradiction in terms and you ignored the contradiction.
This is why tell people - start with a position that isn't full of contradictions FIRST, and then we can debate the merits of it, we can for example ask questions like this:
Well since you asked, yes. God is what is missing from the Bible. Direct Revelation brings the invisible God into visibility (2Cor 3:18). That verse confirms that Paul's experience on the Road to Damascus is our experience today, even if our vision of Him is less vivid.
To put it simply, you are not saved UNTIL YOU MEET THE LORD PERSONALLY. And you aren't mature until the vision becomes crystal clear and thus, "Now we see as through a glass darkly, then [in maturity] we shall see face to face" (1 Cor 13:12).
Upvote
0
Similar threads
