Day of The Lord - Day of Jesus' Future Return

Davy said:

I already explained that one. Joel 3 is when the 'actual' "day of the Lord" event happens per the Book of Joel. Until that 3rd chapter, it is only describing the time of the end of this world, just prior, warning about the locust army and their destruction, and then warning about the coming destruction by God. You have to PAY ATTENTION to the flow of the Scripture line upon line and cover all of it, not just pieces of it.




I don't see how you could NOT... understand how that is about the last day of this world with the "day of the Lord" event, and... with the day of Christ's return "as a thief in the night". That idea of the deceived saying "Peace and safety", and then that "sudden destruction" comes upon 'them', IS... what the "day of the Lord" events are about on the day of Christ's return! Already covered that. Paul was even pulling from the Book of Isaiah about that "sudden destruction" coming suddenly, at an instant, on that day of the Lord.




And that's the point, it's THAT "day of the Lord" event that will END those armies coming out of the northern quarters against Israel on the final day of this world! You quoted Joel 2, but obviously you haven't even read Joel 3 which points to the destruction of those armies on that day!

Joel 3:2
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted My land.
KJV

Joel 3:9-16
9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause Thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
KJV

How could you miss that in Joel 3, especially after quoting from Joel 2?

God's consuming fire is what will destroy those armies that come up against Israel and surround it on the last day of this world, what Revelation 16 calls Armageddon for the 7th Vial, the day of God's Wrath poured out upon the earth!




That's funny, 'gerrymandering' is exactly... what you seem to be doing!

The Zechariah 14 description of the "day of the Lord" events ALSO describes it as a day of battle by The LORD. Can't you see that? Well let's see, does that point to Christ's coming with His army per Rev.19?? Yes!!! It does!!! Does it point to the day of "sudden destruction" Paul pointed to on the "day of the Lord"?? YES!!! It does!! TRUE hermeneutics always... involves common sense in the Scriptures, but you have totally left it with your interpretation!

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You are not reconciling these verses, but simply repeating your hypothesis. Teh language and way the verses are written show you are simply wrong!

Also Zech 14 cannot be reconciles with 2 Peter where everything melts! Jesus destroys armies in REv. 19, then comes the period of 1,000 years! With the events described in the minor prophets and the Olivet discourse taking place. Jesus returns, the 75 day interval, then the 1,000 year kingdom!

None of these passages describe a destruction and remaking of the Universe! However these two passages do coincide perfectly with each other:

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 20:6-15
King James Version

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Revelation 21
King James Version

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Peter matches these well and Revelation 20&21 are not connected in any way with teh physical return of Jesus to establish His 1,000 year kingdom!

Davy said:

Per John 5:28-29 on the day of Christ's coming, 'all' in the graves will be resurrected, and that includes the wicked dead too. Those wicked that are raised on that day of His coming He called the "resurrection of damnation". That doesn't wait for after the thousand years. Isaiah 25 and 1 Corinthians 15 reveals that all... still alive on earth will be changed to the spiritual body. The world to come when Jesus returns will not be a world like this one with people in flesh bodies. So there's not going to be some that are in resurrected spiritual bodies while others are still in a flesh bodies, for that is a tradition of men, not God's Word.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

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You're talking like someone who believes in Amil because we Amils make this same point all the time that Jesus was speaking of the resurrection of both the saved and the lost when He comes. But I know you are premil. So, what exactly do you believe happens during the thousand years? Do you think anyone will die during that time? If so, how can that be if everyone has spiritual bodies, which Paul indicated in 1 Corinthians 15 are incorruptible and immortal?

Davy said:

Per John 5:28-29 on the day of Christ's coming, 'all' in the graves will be resurrected, and that includes the wicked dead too. Those wicked that are raised on that day of His coming He called the "resurrection of damnation". That doesn't wait for after the thousand years. Isaiah 25 and 1 Corinthians 15 reveals that all... still alive on earth will be changed to the spiritual body. The world to come when Jesus returns will not be a world like this one with people in flesh bodies. So there's not going to be some that are in resurrected spiritual bodies while others are still in a flesh bodies, for that is a tradition of men, not God's Word.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

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Yes that started with Lazarus, even before the Cross. Then on the Cross more bodies came out. It is an ongoing process that will not stop until the GWT.

Davy said:

That wrongly suggests that symbols used in God's Word mean confusion and chaos.

In reality, all... languages uses symbols, allegories, metaphors, etc., to draw a type of picture in one's mind, to make it easier to get the point across. It's just a method of communication that can impart a whole lot more information in a shorter period of time.

For example, I'll describe an automobile wreck. "He dodged that tree like a bullfighter in the ring dodges a bull, and his car slammed instead into that telephone pole like a nuclear missile destroying a city!"

There's several symbols used in that, makes it more interesting and emotional, and gets the attention so as to clearly get the point across. But just saying, "his car missed the tree and hit the pole" isn't an attention getter. God wants to get our attention usually when He uses that kind of expressive language...

Isa 24:1-3
24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
KJV

In the Hebrew, that phrase "utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled" is an expression... to mimic the sound of liquid being poured out of a bottle suddenly turned upside down:

hibbok tibbok hibboz tibboz

That... gets the point across. Thus the use of symbols, expressions, figures of speech, allegory, and metaphor, in God's Word. It's not to make things harder to understand, but more simple.

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“”Symbolic language is hieroglyphics, revelation without detail, abstraction. “”
<<That wrongly suggests that symbols used in God's Word mean confusion and chaos.

Thus the use of symbols, expressions, figures of speech, allegory, and metaphor, in God's Word. It's not to make things harder to understand, but more simple.>>
I do not know why you are confused, maybe it is the word “abstraction. I don't think that the Egyptians of 3500 years ago were any more confused or chaotic than people today.
Jew refined hieroglyphics to a higher level; consider this:
2 Peter 3:10-11 (NKJV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burnt up.
I don't take that literally, even if I did I would consider the Greek. Thief in the night isn't a problem, most people understand the thief in the night.
Heavens (Strong 3773) could mean high places or mountains; Pass (3923) could mean “give”; Noise (4500) whirr, wizzingly; Elements (4747) orderly arrangement; Melt (3089) to loosen, break up, destroy; Heat (2741) to set on fire; Earth (1093) the population of a region/country;
So an alternate translation could be: “in which the principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places will give way with a great whizzing and the orderly arrangement of peace and safety will break up and burn; both the population and their works will burn up.”
AMEN.

Davy said:

The John 5:28-29 section isn't history, not about the resurrection that happened when Jesus died on the cross.

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The Cross was still a future event when Jesus said those words. All those in Christ heard his voice daily over the last 1990 years.

Spiritual Jew said:

You're talking like someone who believes in Amil because we Amils make this same point all the time that Jesus was speaking of the resurrection of both the saved and the lost when He comes. But I know you are premil. So, what exactly do you believe happens during the thousand years? Do you think anyone will die during that time? If so, how can that be if everyone has spiritual bodies, which Paul indicated in 1 Corinthians 15 are incorruptible and immortal?

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Well Jesus does return "pre-mil".

And He resurrects the "just" premil.

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Here the bible unambiguously declares there are 2 resurrections separated by 1,000 years.

Those resurrected first are called blessed and holy!
Those resurrected after the 1,000 years- the second death has authority over them!

nolidad said:

Well Jesus does return "pre-mil".

And He resurrects the "just" premil.

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How do you interpret this passage:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Your view has 2 hours (times) coming when all the dead will be resurrected with some being resurrected in one hour/time and the rest resurrected at another hour/time. That contradicts what Jesus said here.

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Here the bible unambiguously declares there are 2 resurrections separated by 1,000 years.

Those resurrected first are called blessed and holy!

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Compare this verse:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

With these passages:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Did you know that we are already priests of God and of Christ. That should tell you something about the timing of Revelation 20:6.

Those resurrected after the 1,000 years- the second death has authority over them!

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Does the second death have any authority over the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven right now?

Davy said:

What are you going on about now?

You fail to grasp the distinction Lord Jesus made in John 5 about the idea of resurrection. I'll show you...

This section of verses 24-27 is about those who resurrected on the day of Christ's death on the cross. Per Apostle Peter Jesus went and preached to the "spirits in prison" in the pit of hell, and led out those who believed, which was prophesied to occur in Isaiah 42:7 about the prisoners.

Notice this first passage points ONLY to those who 'hear' (i.e., believe) being resurrected...

John 5:24-27
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.
KJV

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There has not yet been any resurrection unto bodily immortality besides Christ's resurrection. You are mistaken. Just read 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 which shows the order of bodily resurrections unto bodily immortality. There is no mention there of anyone being resurrected unto bodily immortality except for Christ Himself and then those at His second coming at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:50-54).

John 5:24-27 is talking about the same thing Paul wrote about here, which is going from being spiritually dead in your sins to being made spiritually alive in Christ:

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Davy said:

Those resurrected on the day of Christ's crucifixion were not raised to flesh bodies only to die again, for it is written that we are assigned to die only once (Hebrews 9:27).

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That is generally true, but what about those who are alive and remain when Christ returns? They will not die, so they will be exceptions to what Hebrews 9:27 says. You have to be careful about interpreting a verse like that too literally while not allowing any exceptions.

What about Lazarus? Do you think he was raised with a glorified, immortal body? There is no indication of such. Since he had only died a few days earlier, it's quite reasonable to assume that he was raised with the same body he had when he died without any significant change needed (such as is described in 1 Cor 15:50-54).

What about what Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:22 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This gives the order of resurrections unto bodily immortality. Paul indicated that Christ was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality and next in order are "they that are Christ's at His coming". If the ones who were resurrected on the day Christ was crucified were resurrected unto bodily immortality then why did Paul not mention them here where he gave the order of resurrections unto bodily immortality? Same question regarding Lazarus and others that Jesus and the disciples raised from the dead.

When they appeared to those in Jerusalem it was to show Christ's resurrection and promise of eternal life.

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I know they went to Jerusalem "and appeared unto many", but where does it say that they went into Jerusalem to "show Christ's resurrection and promise of eternal life"?

And what about what I said regarding John 5:24-27 being the same thing that Paul taught in Ephesians 2:1-6 regarding being made spiritually alive in Christ after previously being figuratively dead in sins? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Spiritual Jew said:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Your view has 2 hours (times) coming when all the dead will be resurrected with some being resurrected in one hour/time and the rest resurrected at another hour/time. That contradicts what Jesus said here.

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Not in teh least. It is the presumption of many that all the dead will hear all at once. REvelation shows that the righteous hear his voice and are resurrected, then 1,000 year later the unrighteous hear His voive! The only reason why you must make John to mean all at once is a predisposed bias.

Spiritual Jew said:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

With these passages:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Did you know that we are already priests of God and of Christ. That should tell you something about the timing of Revelation 20:6.

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Well if you think these two passages are inconflict with each other- that is your problem, not the Bibles" I have a very clear and well established understanding of this based on the whole counsel of Scripture that shows no conflict between them. Just different priesthoods for different times! We won't be priests after teh rapture- we will be prepped , adorned and then wed teh Bridegroom as His bride in heaven right before He comes back to earth!

Spiritual Jew said:

Does the second death have any authority over the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven right now?

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Of course not! The dead in christ have their bodies resurrected and glorified at the Pre-trib rapture!

Just like Paul said-"The dead in Christ rise first" That is not some kind of soul sleep but a resurrection of their mortal body to be clothed in immortality.

nolidad said:

Not in teh least. It is the presumption of many that all the dead will hear all at once. REvelation shows that the righteous hear his voice and are resurrected, then 1,000 year later the unrighteous hear His voive! The only reason why you must make John to mean all at once is a predisposed bias.

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It is your predisposed bias that makes you turn one hour/time coming when all of the dead are raised into two hours/times that are coming when some of the dead are raised on 2 separate occasions.

Well if you think these two passages are inconflict with each other- that is your problem, not the Bibles" I have a very clear and well established understanding of this based on the whole counsel of Scripture that shows no conflict between them. Just different priesthoods for different times! We won't be priests after teh rapture- we will be prepped , adorned and then wed teh Bridegroom as His bride in heaven right before He comes back to earth!

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Once again, you are not accepting a passage as written. I show you that we are now priests of God and of His Christ and you brush it off and say Rev 1:5-6 is speaking of some other priests of God and of Christ. How convenient.

Of course not! The dead in christ have their bodies resurrected and glorified at the Pre-trib rapture!

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There is no pre-trib rapture. It is clearly post-trib and that's very easy to prove.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Notice that the elect are gathered from the earth and from heaven. Which is the same thing Paul taught here:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I color coded this so you can see which ones are the ones gathered from the earth and which are gathered from heaven. It is the souls of the dead in Christ that He will bring with Him when He comes and they will unite with their resurrected and changed bodies. Those who are alive and remain are the ones who are gathered from the earth.

There is no basis whatsoever for thinking that Mark 13:24-27 (Matthew 24:29-31, Luke 21:25-28) and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 are speaking of different events.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there were no chapter breaks in the original text, so Paul continued to talk about what will happen on the day Christ returns in 1 Thess 5:1-6. He said that "sudden destruction" will come upon unbelievers who say "peace and safety". That is similar to what Jesus said regarding unbelievers when He comes. He said they will be going about their normal lives and then they will be destroyed just as the unbelievers were destroyed in Noah's day when the flood came (Matt 24:35-39).

Just like Paul said-"The dead in Christ rise first" That is not some kind of soul sleep but a resurrection of their mortal body to be clothed in immortality.

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The context in which the dead in Christ rise first is that those who are alive and remain are not going to be caught up to meet the Lord before them. The dead in Christ have to rise first and be changed and then they together with those who are alive and remain will meet the Lord in the air.

Davy said:

That idea really doesn't make sense.

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Not to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. And your idea doesn't make sense to me. Okay, great. We don't make sense to each other. Nothing new there.

Those still alive on earth will be changed at the twinkling of eye, which is about their flesh being cast off on that day. The world to come everyone will be in the spiritual body type image. This flesh world will be over when Jesus returns.

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I agree. So, in that case, what is the purpose of a future thousand year earthly kingdom? Can you please tell me your understanding of what things would be like during that time in your view? A number as the sand of the seashore dies after the thousand years (Rev 20:7-9). How can people with spiritual bodies die? I really would appreciate if you would break down your understanding of the thousand years for me because it appears to be unique from other premils.

The heavenly dimension is going to be revealed right here, on earth. This is what Apostle Paul was pointing to with the idea of death swallowed up in victory from Isaiah 25.

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But that is the new earth which is ushered in AFTER the thousand years. Notice the similarities in the following verses:

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Clearly, Isaiah 25:8 is fulfilled around the time that the new heaven and new earth are ushered in, which is after the thousand years. Can you acknowledge that?

It will be for all peoples, not just the Church. But those unsaved will still have liable to perish mortal souls, that's the difference in that future time after Christ's return. Yet they will have the spiritual body image also in that time, or else you didn't understand how the "resurrection of damnation" is a 'resurrection' too?

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What in the world are you talking about here? Nowhere does scripture teach that unsaved people who get resurrected will live again on the earth. Instead, they will be cast into the lake of fire (Matt 25:41, Rev 20:15).

Why do you fight the Word of God?

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Why do you? I'm not the one who comes up with crazy, unscriptural ideas of the unsaved dead being resurrected and then roaming around on the earth for a thousand years. That is clearly unbiblical. Where did you even get such an idea from?

You know what Paul said, and what Lord Jesus said about the resurrection. God is not the God of the dead, but of the Living.

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Right. When our bodies die, our souls and spirits go to be with the Lord in heaven.

Davy said:

What are you going on about now?

You fail to grasp the distinction Lord Jesus made in John 5 about the idea of resurrection. I'll show you...

This section of verses 24-27 is about those who resurrected on the day of Christ's death on the cross. Per Apostle Peter, Jesus went and preached to the "spirits in prison" in the pit of hell, and led out those who believed, which was prophesied to occur in Isaiah 42:7 about the prisoners.

Notice this first passage points ONLY to those who 'hear' (i.e., believe) being resurrected...

John 5:24-27
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.
KJV


Because that above is only about those who "hear shall live", that means the dead unbelieving weren't raised then.

But notice how this below later section of verses is different, because the dead unbelieving are raised also at the time below, with "all that are in the graves" hearing His voice and are raised. This resurrection below is for the end of this world when Jesus returns...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

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But the point Jesus is making is that the call of those entering Paradise is non stop, it did start with Lazarus. The dead have to wait until the GWT, and then they will be called. Those in Paradise do hear the call at physical death. THEY DO NOT WAIT.

If the point is pressed too much about those called at the GWT, that some will be granted life instead of the lake of fire, will that go against your theology? They will not go to Paradise, but they may live on earth in the NHNE. But to claim the church still resides in sheol until the GWT, contradicts Scripture that claims we are currently sitting with Christ in the heavenly. That is literally true because the majority of those, have already entered, that had ears to hear. Only a small minority of the church remains alive today.

None of the interpretation that says a church is waiting in a grave somewhere is the truth. That is misleading human theology that crept into the church over the last 1990 years. The living have not prevented the church from bodily being in Paradise.