Salvation and Calvinists

Hammster said:

So not even one name of a Calvinist who believes we are saved by grace through election?

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This was what I said:
"If you say yes, then YOU are a Calvinist who thinks that we are saved through election."

So, obviously I think that you believe that. That is one name. So again, you have erred.

You sounded so confident.

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What I am so confident about is the FACT that no Calvinist can provide ANY verse that says that man is saved by grace through election.

I won't even require those exact words. But I do require the clear message that salvation is by election.

And you haven't yet provided any. Just like every other Calvinist I've dealt with over the years.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
And, there are NO verses in either document that plainly SAY that Christ's death was only for a particular group, whatever either document preferred to call such group. Or you would have provided at least

5thKingdom said:

That is hilarious.

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No, what is actually hilarious is your clalim that you have provided any verses.

I provided MUCH more than ONE VERSE (save "His People")
and you intentionally ignored the Scriptures.

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As I explained to another poster, "His people" refers to the human race. Jesus was fully human. People are humans. Angels are not humans. Nor are animals, etc.

So "His people" means the human race. The race that Jesus was a full member.

FreeGrace2 said:

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
So, the real question here is this: why believe a theology that can't support their views with Scripture?

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See post #235
If you want to be taken seriously you will need
to address the Scriptures provided.

.

FreeGrace2 said:

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
If you say yes, then YOU are a Calvinist who thinks that we are saved through election.

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LOL
It was JESUS that taught salvation by election 1500 years
before Calvin was born.

If you want to be taken seriously you will need to address
the Scriptures provided in post #235

.

FreeGrace2 said:

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Actually, all you've got are your claims. If Jesus taught that, why aren't there any verses that say so?

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Read post #235... there are DOZENS of verses
which you continue to intentionally ignore.
If you want to be taken seriously then
stop ignoring Scriptures.

.

BNR32FAN said:

Conditions for salvation do not negate God’s grace because no matter what we do we are still unworthy of receiving it.

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But all the conditions necessary were met by Christ. He met those for those He died for, those the Father gave Him to redeem.

Hammster said:

I’ll have to interject here. We are saved by grace through faith. We aren’t saved through election. I’m not sure if that’s what you are saying, specifically. But that’s what it sounds like.

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You are correct we (the elect) are saved by grace through faith.
But the ONLY people saved by grace through faith are the elect.

Jim

Hammster said:

I’ll have to interject here. We are saved by grace through faith. We aren’t saved through election. I’m not sure if that’s what you are saying, specifically. But that’s what it sounds like.

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It is interesting that, when His disciples realized Jesus
was teaching salvation by election... many of them
immediately abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]

Now, WHY in the world would anyone abandon the Son of God?
And, of course the answer is obvious: they (like most men today)
did not WANT a salvation plan where God was Sovereign and
Autonomous - choosing or electing who He would save before
the foundation of the world (based ONLY on His Good Pleasure
and not on anything that person would do in their lifetime).

Instead, they (like most people today) want to "be like God"
and initiate their salvation by doing some good "work" like
saying a sinner's prayer or making an alter call or receiving
water baptism or repenting of some sins or "inviting" Jesus
into their hearts or DECIDING to "believe" (before regeneration).

Those who God has "elected" take great comfort knowing
that they had no part in being saved, that it was entirely of
God's Good Purpose. Those who are not "elected" cannot
handle the idea that salvation is entirely dependent on who
GOD "elects" to have mercy and there is NOTHING they can
do to save themselves.

And so they design schemes where they do some "work"
and God SEES the good work they have done and He is
then OBLIGATED to save them.

Of course, the more sophisticated use the term "non-meritorious"
before the WORK done to secure their salvation. This way they
can pretend their work was not REALLY a "work" at all...
of course they are only pretending to themselves.


Jim

Hammster said:

I don’t need to prove anything. I gave evidence, though.

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You mean the 2 documents you referenced?

I didn't see any verses that say that salvation is by election.

Don't you have any verses on the tip of your tongue that you can give at a moment's notice?

Hammster said:

I guess you felt the need to change the topic because you can’t back up your simple, yet confident-sounding claim that

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FreeGrace2 said: ↑
The Bible never says we are saved by grace through election. Yet, that is how Calvinists think.

Huh? Of course I can back up my VERY confident claim that the Bible never says we are saved by grace through election.

In fact, YOU helped me prove it. By your inability to provide ANY verses that say that.

And though I've read through the NT monthly for nearly 2 decades, I've never seen anything like that.

So of course I'm confident that the Bible does teach salvation by election. And thanks for helping me prove it.

5thKingdom said:

See post #235
If you want to be taken seriously you will need
to address the Scriptures provided.

.

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I've already done that. Maybe you've forgotten. So I'll remind you again; none of the verses you keep quoting say what you believe.

No verses say that some men were never meant to be saved. That is pure nonsense.

5thKingdom said:

LOL
It was JESUS that taught salvation by election 1500 years
before Calvin was born.

If you want to be taken seriously you will need to address
the Scriptures provided in post #235

.

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Once again, none of the verses you have provided say what you keep claiming. Zero.

5thKingdom said:

Read post #235... there are DOZENS of verses
which you continue to intentionally ignore.
If you want to be taken seriously then
stop ignoring Scriptures.

.

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Rather, if YOU want to be taken seriously, YOU need to provide at least 1 verse that actually SAYS that salvation is by election.

otoh, I can and have provided nearly 2 dozen verses that very plainly say that salvation and eternal life is by faith.

We are saved by faith, not by election.

Aren't you aware of Eph 2;8,9? Or Acts 16:31?

5thKingdom said:

You are correct we (the elect) are saved by grace through faith.
But the ONLY people saved by grace through faith are the elect.

Jim

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Oh, now I see. You've been corrected finally by one of your own.

And I agree that all the saved are elected. Elected for service.

5thKingdom said:

It is interesting that, when His disciples realized Jesus
was teaching salvation by election... many of them
immediately abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]

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Could you PLEASE specifically identify the exact words that support your claims in these 2 verses?

65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

How do you make the LEAP from "enabled" to "elected"?

5thKingdom said:

It is interesting that, when His disciples realized Jesus
was teaching salvation by election... many of them
immediately abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]

Now, WHY in the world would anyone abandon the Son of God?
And, of course the answer is obvious: they (like most men today)
did not WANT a salvation plan where God was Sovereign and
Autonomous - choosing or electing who He would save before
the foundation of the world (based ONLY on His Good Pleasure
and not on anything that person would do in their lifetime).

Instead, they (like most people today) want to "be like God"
and initiate their salvation by doing some good "work" like
saying a sinner's prayer or making an alter call or receiving
water baptism or repenting of some sins or "inviting" Jesus
into their hearts or DECIDING to "believe" (before regeneration).

Those who God has "elected" take great comfort knowing
that they had no part in being saved, that it was entirely of
God's Good Purpose. Those who are not "elected" cannot
handle the idea that salvation is entirely dependent on who
GOD "elects" to have mercy and there is NOTHING they can
do to save themselves.

And so they design schemes where they do some "work"
and God SEES the good work they have done and He is
then OBLIGATED to save them.

Of course, the more sophisticated use the term "non-meritorious"
before the WORK done to secure their salvation. This way they
can pretend their work was not REALLY a "work" at all...
of course they are only pretending to themselves.


Jim

Click to expand...

Are you pleased with your belief that God creates a majority of people with no opportunity to be saved and who are doomed from birth to suffer eternal torment? Do you enjoy that about your version of God? God is hate, right? Isn't that what John said in 1 John 4:8? He said something to the effect that God hates most people because He is hate. I may not be quoting that exactly right, but it's something like that, right?

How about 1 John 2:1-2 that talks about how Jesus didn't just die for our sins but also the sins of the whole elect world. Again, I may not have quoted that exactly right.

And then there's Acts 17:30-31 where it talks about God commanding some people in some places to repent and that He has set a day to judge some of the world by the guy He has appointed or something along those lines. Right?