MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hya LGW, nice to see you too.
Well, you made an assertion that struck me as not containing any scriptural support that we could examine for veracity.

Here's your statement, relevant emphasis added by me:
As posted earlier anything that is against Christ or opposed to Christ according to the scriptures is "Antichrist".

What scriptures teach that ANYTHING that is against or opposed to Christ is "antichrist"... ?

Just seems super broad and vague when we have EXPLICIT teaching from John on what constitutes antichrist... But I'm happy to examine any scriptures you'd like to point me to that you feel supports your Broad Brush here.

This was in reference to the Greek words used in the scripture. Here let's look at them.

1 JOHN 2:18-19 [18], Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Note v18, The Greek word used here is ἀντίχριστος; antichristos (G500) which means against Christ of an opponent or opposed to Christ of the Messiah. The GREEK word used here is ἀντίχριστος antichristos which means an opponent or against the Messiah: - antichrist. Anything that is against or opposed to Christ is antichrist and there is many of them. "They" went out from us "the true believers" (Gods' truth). If we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then we are an "UNBELIEVER" and against Christ because we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

As shown in the scriptures [19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

What did they go out from? They went out from the truth. The problem was not that they went out from fellowship with the BELIEVERS. The problem was that they became "UNBELIEVERS" not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD!

The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers (ἀντίχριστος; antichristos; those who are against Christ and opponents of the Messiah. These are those who are AGAINST God's WORD and his truth.

They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer believed and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (UNBELIEVERS). If they contunued with us then they would be of us (by continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word) and would have been of us. No longer believing and following God's Word they went out from us. If you no longer believe and follow the truth of God's Word to the end then you are no longer of us.

Let's now link these scriptures back to the previous post in JOHN 8:31-36. Do you remember the conditions that JESUS states for those who are His DISCIPLES and as PAUL says CONTINUED WITH US?

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD , THEN ARE YOU MY DISCIPLES INDEED; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

They went out from us because they were not of us. They went out from us (disciples) because they did not CONTINUE BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. As a result of no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD they left the truth.

What did they go out from? Yep you guessed it. They went out from the truth. The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers. They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer believed and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (Believers and followers of Gods' Word).

In John's day the Antichrist was already in the world *see 1 JOHN 4:3; 2 JOHN 1:7. Perhaps you also missed post # 307 linked that may be helpful in context to the OP here.

So very scriptural I would say don't you?

Hope this is helpful.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,534
4,827
57
Oregon
✟797,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
This was in reference to the Greek words used in the scripture. Here let's look at them.

1 JOHN 2:18-19
[18], Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Note v18, The Greek word used here is ἀντίχριστος; antichristos (G500) which means against Christ of an opponent or opposed to Christ of the Messiah. The GREEK word used here is ἀντίχριστος antichristos which means an opponent or against the Messiah: - antichrist. Anything that is against or opposed to Christ is antichrist and there is many of them. "They" went out from us "the true believers" (Gods' truth). If we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then we are an "UNBELIEVER" and against Christ because we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

As shown in the scriptures [19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

What did they go out from? They went out from the truth. The problem was not that they went out from fellowship with the BELIEVERS. The problem was that they became "UNBELIEVERS" not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD!

The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers (ἀντίχριστος; antichristos; those who are against Christ and opponents of the Messiah. These are those who are AGAINST God's WORD and his truth.

They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer believed and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (UNBELIEVERS). If they contunued with us then they would be of us (by continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word) and would have been of us. No longer believing and following God's Word they went out from us. If you no longer believe and follow the truth of God's Word to the end then you are no longer of us.

Let's now link these scriptures back to the previous post in JOHN 8:31-36. Do you remember the conditions that JESUS states for those who are His DISCIPLES and as PAUL says CONTINUED WITH US?

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD , THEN ARE YOU MY DISCIPLES INDEED;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

They went out from us because they were not of us. They went out from us (disciples) because they did not CONTINUE BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. As a result of no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD they left the truth.

What did they go out from? Yep you guessed it. They went out from the truth. The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers. They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer believed and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (Believers and followers of Gods' Word).

In John's day the Antichrist was already in the world *see 1 JOHN 4:3; 2 JOHN 1:7. Perhaps you also missed post # 307 linked that may be helpful in context to the OP here.

So very scriptural I would say don't you?

Hope this is helpful.

Thank for all of this. Yes very helpful indeed.

"They" went out from us "the true believers" (Gods' truth). If we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then we are an "UNBELIEVER" and against Christ because we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

As shown in the scriptures [19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

What did they go out from? They went out from the truth. The problem was not that they went out from fellowship with the BELIEVERS. The problem was that they became "UNBELIEVERS" not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD!

A few observations.
As you correctly pointed out, according to scripture, in order to be "antichrist", you needed to have departed from the apostles' flocks, defecting from the true Christian faith to join "many deceivers" after first appearing to be a member.

This alone disproves your claim that "anything against Christ, according to the scriptures is "antichrist"." For the antichrist of scripture must first have appeared as a follower of Christ and the one true faith, but later defected.

This rules out, by exponential numbers, MOST of the Human Beings on earth who are "against Christ" from being scriptural antichrist.

Next we know that, according to scripture, these ex-church members now embrace and promote the specific heresy that makes a confession that Christ did not come in the flesh:

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist" (2 John 1:7)

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already. " (1 Jn 4:2-3)

This of course rules out those who are against Christ and His teachings, yet still affirm He came in the flesh... Care to guess How many people that is?

Next we know that, According to scripture these ex-church members, among many others who now embrace and promote the heresy about Christ not having ever come in the flesh, also try to claim the Father without having the Son (thereby denying both, according to John's teaching: Jn 15:23; Jn 5:23; Jn 8:42)

"This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the son Whoever denies the Son DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn 2:22-23)

PLENTY of people against Christ do NOT try to claim the Father... thus again, scripturally disproving your claim that ANYONE who is against Christ is, according to scripture, antichrist.

Perhaps you also missed post # 307 linked that may be helpful in context to the OP here. So very scriptural I would say don't you?

Not really... as you make more claims unsubstantiated by scripture, namely conflating the Beast of Revelation and the Man of Sin of 2nd Thessalonians... two completely separate, distinct Biblical personalities from one another and from the Biblical antichrist. Again, you have no scripture that teaches they are one in the same entity, yet this is what you promote.

Its a hodgepodge of cobbled together scriptures that do not teach what you claim. You appear to be relying solely on man made tradition and inference supported only by your previously held bias.

But thanks for clarifying your position for us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Thank for all of this. Yes very helpful indeed.
No need to thank me dear friend as they are God's Words not mine. We need to give thanks to God.
A few observations. As you correctly pointed out, according to scripture, in order to be "antichrist", you needed to have departed from the apostles' flocks, defecting from the true Christian faith to join "many deceivers" after first appearing to be a member.
Not at all. The departing from us is in reference to departing the truth of God's Word. Although this was shown in the previous post through the scriptures. Not sure how you missed that. The true Christian faith according to the scriptures is the truth of the Word of God. God's Church therefore are all those who believe and follow the truth of Gods' Word *John 10:26-27; John 3:16; Matthew 7:21; John 14:15; John 15:10; Revelation 14:12.
This alone disproves your claim that "anything against Christ, according to the scriptures is "antichrist"." For the antichrist of scripture must first have appeared as a follower of Christ and the one true faith, but later defected.
Not at all. As shown in the scriptures there are "many antichrists" some of them were with God's Church it does not say they all antichrists were with God's Church. That interpretation does not agree with the Greek words use of ἀντίχριστος; antichristos (G500) which means against Christ of an opponent or opposed to Christ of the Messiah. Antichrist therefore is anyone opposed to Christ and the truth of God's Word according to the scriptures and there are many forms of antichrist as the scriptures teach.
This rules out, by exponential numbers, MOST of the Human Beings on earth who are "against Christ" from being scriptural antichrist.
According to the scriptures anyone that is against or opposed to JESUS and his Word is antichrist. Those who believe and follow the truth of Gods' Word however are not antichrist because they are not against or opposed to JESUS and his Word, they are in harmony with God's Word and believe and follow it. These are God's true Church according to the scriptures. Those who were once believers and depart the faith (truth of God's Word) have left the faith (the truth of God's Word - the Church) to become unbelievers and are therefore according to the scriptures - antichrist.
Next we know that, according to scripture, these ex-church members now embrace and promote the specific heresy that makes a confession that Christ did not come in the flesh: "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist" (2 John 1:7) "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already. " (1 Jn 4:2-3)
True but as shown though the scriptures already, anything that is opposed to JESUS and God's Word and is not of the truth of God's Word is antichrist according to the scriptures.
This of course rules out those who are against Christ and His teachings, yet still affirm He came in the flesh... Care to guess How many people that is?
Next we know that, According to scripture these ex-church members, among many others who now embrace and promote the heresy about Christ not having ever come in the flesh, also try to claim the Father without having the Son (thereby denying both, according to John's teaching: Jn 15:23; Jn 5:23; Jn 8:42) "This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the son Whoever denies the Son DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn 2:22-23) PLENTY of people against Christ do NOT try to claim the Father... thus again, scripturally disproving your claim that ANYONE who is against Christ is, according to scripture, antichrist.
Not really, that claim does not make any sense to the definition of antichrist ἀντίχριστος; antichristos (G500) which means against Christ of an opponent or opposed to Christ of the Messiah. Antichrist therefore is anyone opposed to Christ and the truth of God's Word according to the scriptures and there are many forms of antichrist as the scriptures teach.
LoveGodsWord said: Perhaps you also missed post # 307 linked that may be helpful in context to the OP here. So very scriptural I would say don't you?
Your response here...
Not really... as you make more claims unsubstantiated by scripture, namely conflating the Beast of Revelation and the Man of Sin of 2nd Thessalonians... two completely separate, distinct Biblical personalities from one another and from the Biblical antichrist. Again, you have no scripture that teaches they are one in the same entity, yet this is what you promote.
Not at all dear friend. As shown in post # 307 linked as well as the last few posts in the scriptures and Greek word usage antichrist ἀντίχριστος; antichristos (G500) which means against Christ of an opponent or opposed to Christ of the Messiah. Antichrist therefore is anyone opposed to Christ and the truth of God's Word according to the scriptures and there are many forms of antichrist as the scriptures teach. Only Gods' Word is provided in post # 307 linked above. They are Gods' Words not mine. All your providing here are your words that disagree with Gods'. So your argument dear friend is with God not me. Happy to talk detail but you need to support your claims and accusations with evidence. You have not provided any to support your view and what you have provided falls over because your definitions of "the church" and "antichrist is not biblical.
Its a hodgepodge of cobbled together scriptures that do not teach what you claim. You appear to be relying solely on man made tradition and inference supported only by your previously held bias.
Not really dear friend. You have only been provided Gods' Word and God's Word is not mine but Gods. You are free to believe as you wish but all you have provided here in response to post # 307 linked is your words and opinions that are yours and not God's. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you but for me I prefer to believe and follow Gods' Word over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. These according to the scriptures are indeed "antichrist" because they teach against God and his Word. JESUS warns us in His own Word that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God in Matthew 15:3-9. The question we must all ask ourselves is who do we believe and follow? God or man. Sorry dear friend seems like God's Word disagrees with you. Only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.
But thanks for clarifying your position for us.
Your welcome but they are God's Word not mine. Give thanks to God only.
May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
WHO DOES BABYLON THE HARLOT WOMAN REPRESENT IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS?

REVELATION 14:8 [8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

NOTE: BABYLON is being portrayed here in REVELATION 14:8 as an UNFAITHFUL WOMAN.

Similar warnings and scriptures are also found in REVELATIONS 17:1-5 where BABYLON is described as an UNFAITHFUL WOMAN [HARLOT] sitting on the SCARLET COLORED BEAST which is connected to those receiving the MARK OF THE BEAST in REVELATIONS 14:9-10. While REVELATIONS 18:1-10 is a call for God’s people to come out of BABYLON that they do not receive the judgments of God which are connected to the BEASTS MARK. Let’s look at some of these scriputres.

REVELATIONS 17:1-5
[1], And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, and talked with me, saying unto me, come here; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT HARLOT THAT SITS ON MANY WATERS:
[2], With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3], So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4], And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5], And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

NOTE: Here we have the WOMAN who is said to be a HARLOT that sits on many waters also a scarlot colored BEAST. This WOMEN HARLOT is named BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. These scriptures link directly to …

REVELATION 14:8 [8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

NOTE: BABYLON therefore in REVELATIONS represents a WOMAN that is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. A WOMAN in bible prophecy represents God’s professed people. A PURE WOMAN represents God’s true Church *JEREMAIAH 6:2; 2 CORINTHIANS 11:2; EPHESIANS 5:23-27, while an UNFAITHFUL WORMAN or HARLOT represents an APOSTATE CHURCH that is UNFAITHFUL to GOD and his WORD *EZEKIEL 16:15-58; 23:2-21; HOSEA 2:5; 3:1; REVELATION 14:4. Let’s look at the scriptures. Therefore, BABYLON that is connected that sits on the BEAST represents a CORRUPT RELIGIOUS POLITICAL POWER. It sits on many WATERS *REVELATION 17:1 which is symbolic of this CORRUPT RELIGIOUS POLITICAL POWER having influence over many people…

REVELATION 17:15, And he said unto me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

She commits FORNICATION with the KINGS of the EARTH which means this is as WORLD-WIDE RELIGEOUS movement *REVELATIONS 17:2

This WORLD-WIDE CORRUPT RELIGEOUS POWER IS ALSO SAID TO BE THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS. This is many CORRUPT RELIGEOUS CHURCHES have come out of BABYLON. Now BABYLON represents confusion it is a world-wide corrupt religious political Church that has influence with all the kings of the earth.

IMPORTANT NOTE: We need to stop here to make something clear before proceeding further in identifying who BABYLON represents. These scriptures are NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN THESE CHURCHES! God has many of his people inside these corrupt Churches. How do we know this? Please pay attention to the following scriptures.

REVELATIONS 18:1-10
[1], And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was made bright with his glory.
[2], And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of demons, and the haunt of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3], For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through the abundance of her luxury.
[4], And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, THAT YOU BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS, AND THAT YOU RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES.
[5], For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

God has his people in BABYLON which represents CORRUPT APOSTATE CHRISTIANITY. God’s WORD goes on to say…

JOHN 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one-fold, and one shepherd.

JOHN 4:21-24
[21], Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
[22], You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
[23], But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.
[24], God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

...............

ANSWER:
God has his people in EVERY CHURCH. Not all these Churches are following God or his WORD. Not all these Churches are faithful to God or his WORD. It is not the people in these Churches that God hates and will send judgements to it is the Churches that lead his people away from his WORD to break his commandments. God has his people in all these Churches and is calling his true people out of these Churches to worship him and follow him in Spirit and in truth according to the WORD of GOD. It is because of his great love to us that before the judgments of God fall on these Churches, GOD will call his true followers OUT of these corrupt unfaithful Churches to follow him according to his WORD.

BABYLON represents the Mother Church; the Roman Catholic Church (not the people in it) and the fallen Protestant Churches (not the people). God has his people in every Church and loves them all. He is calling them out to whoship him in Spirit and in truth according to his Word.

God bless...
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS OVER WORSHIP

REVELATION 14:7, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

NOTE: This scripture is not only about announcing God’s judgment where the standard in the judgment will be God’s Commandments, it is a direct call to worship God as the creator. How do we worship the creator?

God’s 4th Commandment says;

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT

Why does God’s 4th commandment start off to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY? God knew that mankind would forsake it to follow the man-made teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Even in Paul’s day the mystery of iniquity was already at work *2 THESSALONIANS 2:5-8; ACTS 20:29-30 who will think to change times and laws

DANIEL 7:25 [25], And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The MARK OF THE BEAST is over worship. Let's look at the scriptures...

REVELATION 13:8
[8], And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

REVELATION 13:12-16;
[12], And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them who dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13], And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14], And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, that had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15], And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16], And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

REVELATION 14:7-12.
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God’s 4th COMMANDMENT is one of the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

If we KNOWINGLY break any one of God’s 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God’s 4th Commandment is the ONLY commandment that is a MEMORIAL of creation and a call to worship GOD as the creator of heaven and earth. Nearly all mankind has forgotten God’s 4th commandment.

There is not one scripture in all of God’s WORD that says God’s 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day.

…………….

CONCLUSION: God’s commandments are the standard of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; PSALMS 119:172. The whole world has neglected God’s 4th Commandment despite there being not a single scripture for it’s change. We are to whoship God as the creator of heaven and earth. This is a call back to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. God’s 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments. If we KNOWINGLY break it just like any of the other commandments we commit sin and sin will keep all those who KNOWINGLY practice it out of God’s KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JAMES 2:10-11.

God bless...
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
WHAT DOES A BEAST OR KINGDOM REPRESENT IN BIBLE PROPHECY?

It is interesting when studying the book of REVELATIONS and amazing as you look at the scriptures. For prophetic scriptures we read..

2 PETER 1:19-21
[19], We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20], Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation. [21], For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

THE RULES for intepreting prophetic scripture is to let God's WORD interpret itself. Let God's WORD interpret what the symbols mean. This is the key to understanding the symbols used in prophecy.

It is interesting as you study the prophetic scriptures you will find that the scriptures interpret themselves and tell you what their meaning is. For example what does a BEAST and it's HORNS represent in the prophetic scriptures?

DANIEL 7:23-24
[23], Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. [24], And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

...............

CONCLUSION: According to God's WORD a BEAST represtents a KINGDOM, GOVERNMENT and POLITICAL POWER. While the HORNS of the BEAST can represent the KING that rises out of a KINGDOM.

God bless
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Mark of the beast refers to Nero's time.

So then you disagree with this historical facts from the Catholic Church

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy’s call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.

He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So then you disagree with this historical facts from the Catholic Church

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy’s call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.

He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.

Hi OHC and many historical facts there are. Did you want to share them?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS?
PART 1/2

Protestant Reformers View of Antichrist (Source Wikipedia)

See also: Great Apostasy, Protestant Reformation, and History of Protestantism

Protestant Reformers, including John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, John Thomas, John Knox, Roger Williams, Cotton Mather, Jonathan Edwards and John Wesley, as well as most Protestants of the 16th-18th centuries, felt that the Early Church had been led into the Great Apostasy by the Papacy and identified the Pope with the Antichrist.[13][14] The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume Magdeburg Centuries to discredit the Catholic Church and lead other Christians to recognize the Pope as the Antichrist. So, rather than expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the Papacy.[13][15]

Among the others who interpreted the Biblical prophecy historistically there were many Church Fathers; Justin Martyr wrote about the Antichrist: "He Whom Daniel foretells would have dominion for a time and times and an half, is even now at the door".[16] Irenaeus wrote in Against Heresies about the coming of the Antichrist: "This Antichrist shall ... devastate all things ... But then, the Lord will come from Heaven on the clouds ... for the righteous".[17] Tertullian looking to the Antichrist wrote: "He is to sit in the temple of God, and boast himself as being god. In our view, he is Antichrist as taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies; and especially by the Apostle John, who says that 'already many false-prophets are gone out into the world' as the fore-runners of Antichrist".[18] Hippolytus of Rome in his Treatise on Christ and Antichrist wrote: "As Daniel also says (in the words) 'I considered the Beast, and look! There were ten horns behind it – among which shall rise another (horn), an offshoot, and shall pluck up by the roots the three (that were) before it.' And under this, was signified none other than Antichrist."[19][20] Athanasius of Alexandria clearly hold to the historical view in his many writings; in The Deposition of Arius, he wrote: "I addressed the letter to Arius and his fellows, exhorting them to renounce his impiety.... There have gone forth in this diocese at this time certain lawless men – enemies of Christ – teaching an apostasy which one may justly suspect and designate as a forerunner of Antichrist".[21] Jerome wrote: "Says the apostle [Paul in the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians], 'Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.'" He also identifies the Little horn of Daniel 7:8 and 7:24-25 which "shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law" as the Papacy.[22]

Some Franciscans had considered the Emperor Frederick II a positive Antichrist who would purify the Catholic Church from opulence, riches and clergy.[23]

Some of the debated features of the Reformation's Historicist interpretations reached beyond the Book of Revelation. They included the identification of:

* the Antichrist (1 and 2 John);
* the Beast of Revelation 13;
* the Man of Sin, or Man of Lawlessness, of 2 Thessalonians 2 (2:1-12);
* the "Little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8;
* The Abomination of desolation of Daniel 9, 11, and 12; and
* the harlot of Babylon of Revelation 17.

The Protestant Reformers tended to hold the belief that the Antichrist power would be revealed so that everyone would comprehend and recognize that the Pope is the real, true Antichrist and not the vicar of Christ. Doctrinal works of literature published by the Lutherans, the Reformed Churches, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Anabaptists, and the Methodists contain references to the Pope as the Antichrist, including the Smalcald Articles, Article 4 (1537),[24] the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope written by Philip Melanchthon (1537),[25] the Westminster Confession, Article 25.6 (1646), and the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, Article 26.4. In 1754, John Wesley published his Explanatory Notes Upon the New Testament, which is currently an official Doctrinal Standard of the United Methodist Church. In his notes on the Book of Revelation (chapter 13), he commented: "The whole succession of Popes from Gregory VII are undoubtedly Antichrists. Yet this hinders not, but that the last Pope in this succession will be more eminently the Antichrist, the Man of Sin, adding to that of his predecessors a peculiar degree of wickedness from the bottomless pit."[26][27]

to be continued....
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS?
PART 2/2

In calling the pope the "Antichrist", the early Lutherans stood in a tradition that reached back into the eleventh century. Not only dissidents and heretics but even saints had called the bishop of Rome the "Antichrist" when they wished to castigate his abuse of power. What Lutherans understood as a papal claim to unlimited authority over everything and everyone reminded them of the apocalyptic imagery of Daniel 11, a passage that even prior to the Reformation had been applied to the pope as the Antichrist of the last days.[14]

The identification of the Pope with the Antichrist was so ingrained in the Reformation Era, that Luther himself stated it repeatedly:

"This teaching [of the supremacy of the pope] shows forcefully that the Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ, because he will not permit Christians to be saved without his power, which, nevertheless, is nothing, and is neither ordained nor commanded by God".[28]

and,

"nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of the very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny."[29]

John Calvin similarly wrote:
"Though it be admitted that Rome was once the mother of all Churches, yet from the time when it began to be the seat of Antichrist it has ceased to be what it was before. Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt .. I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy."[30]

John Knox wrote on the Pope:
"Yea, to speak it in plain words; lest that we submit ourselves to Satan, thinking that we submit ourselves to Jesus Christ, for, as for your Roman kirk, as it is now corrupted, and the authority thereof, whereon stands the hope of your victory, I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof, called the pope, to be that man of sin, of whom the apostle speaks."[31]

Thomas Cranmer on the Antichrist wrote:
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of Antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons."[32]

John Wesley, speaking of the identity given in the Bible of the Antichrist, wrote:
"In many respects, the Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled, the son of perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers, destroyed innumerable souls, and will himself perish everlastingly. He it is that opposeth himself to the emperor, once his rightful sovereign; and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped - Commanding angels, and putting kings under his feet, both of whom are called gods in scripture; claiming the highest power, the highest honour; suffering himself, not once only, to be styled God or vice-God. Indeed no less is implied in his ordinary title, "Most Holy Lord," or, "Most Holy Father." So that he sitteth - Enthroned. In the temple of God - Mentioned Rev. xi, 1. Declaring himself that he is God - Claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone."[33]

Roger Williams wrote about the Pope:
"the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself ... speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the Son of Perdition."[34]

The identification of the Roman Catholic Church as the apostate power written of in the Bible as the Antichrist became evident to many as the Reformation began, including John Wycliffe, who was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the doctrine and practices of the Catholic Church, which he believed had clearly deviated from the original teachings of the early Church and to be contrary to the Bible. Wycliffe himself tells (Sermones, III. 199) how he concluded that there was a great contrast between what the Church was and what it ought to be, and saw the necessity for reform. Along with John Hus, they had started the inclination toward ecclesiastical reforms of the Catholic Church.

When the Swiss Reformer Huldrych Zwingli became the pastor of the Grossmünster in Zurich (1518) he began to preach ideas on reforming the Catholic Church. Zwingli, who was a Catholic priest before he became a Reformer, often referred to the Pope as the Antichrist. He wrote: "I know that in it works the might and power of the Devil, that is, of the Antichrist".[35]

The English Reformer William Tyndale held that while the Roman Catholic realms of that age were the empire of Antichrist, any religious organization that distorted the doctrine of the Old and New Testaments also showed the work of Antichrist. In his treatise The Parable of the Wicked Mammon, he expressly rejected the established Church teaching that looked to the future for an Antichrist to rise up, and he taught that Antichrist is a present spiritual force that will be with us until the end of the age under different religious disguises from time to time.[36] Tyndale's translation of 2 Thessalonians, chapter 2, concerning the "Man of Lawlessness" reflected his understanding, but was significantly amended by later revisers,[37] including the King James Bible committee, which followed the Vulgate more closely.

Exactly as prophecy had given, in 1798 Pope Pius VI was taken prisoner by the armies of Napoleon I, and died in captivity in France, and it appeared the Papacy had been dealt a death blow, or its power taken or wounded and yet it was restored: "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the Beast" (Revelation 13:3).

In 1870, the newly formed Kingdom of Italy annexed the remaining Papal States, depriving the Pope of his temporal power. However, the Papal rule over Italy was later restored by the Italian Fascist regime[38] (albeit on a greatly diminished scale) in 1929 as head of the Vatican City state;[38] under Mussolini's dictatorship, Roman Catholicism became the State religion of Fascist Italy[38][39] (see also Clerical fascism), and the Racial Laws were enforced to outlaw and persecute both Italian Jews[40] and Protestant Christians,[39][41][42][43] especially Evangelicals and Pentecostals.[41][42][43] Thousands of Italian Jews and a small number of Protestants died in the Nazi concentration camps.[40][43]

Today, many Protestant and Restorationist denominations still officially maintain that the Papacy is the Antichrist, such as the conservative Lutheran Churches[44][45][46] and the Seventh-day Adventists.[47][48][49][50][51] In 1988 Ian Paisley, Evangelical minister and founder of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, made headlines with such a statement about Pope John Paul II.[52] The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod states about the Pope and the Catholic Church:[44]

There are two principles that mark the papacy as the Antichrist. One is that the pope takes to himself the right to rule the church that belongs only to Christ. He can make laws forbidding the marriage of priests, eating or not eating meat on Friday, birth control, divorce and remarriage, even where there are not such laws in the Bible. The second is that he teaches that salvation is not by faith alone but by faith and works. The present pope upholds and practices these principles. This marks his rule as antichristian rule in the church. All popes hold the same office over the church and promote the same antichristian belief so they all are part of the reign of the Antichrist. The Bible does not present the Antichrist as one man for one short time, but as an office held by a man through successive generations. It is a title like King of England.[53]

God bless.
 
Upvote 0

John Helpher

John 3:16
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2020
1,345
479
45
Houston
✟85,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
It is hard to say how the MARK will be enforced

Nah. The prophecy says it will be used to control buying and selling. If you take it, you can buy and sell. If you do not take it, you will not be able to buy and sell. This will be a powerful motivator for most of the world to agree to taking it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Nah. The prophecy says it will be used to control buying and selling. If you take it, you can buy and sell. If you do not take it, you will not be able to buy and sell. This will be a powerful motivator for most of the world to agree to taking it.
True John, my comment earlier was in regards to how enforcement or punishment for non-compliance would take place under civil law. For example non-compliance for not bowing down and worshiping the golden statue for God's people of Danial 2 was the fiery furnace (death) but for which God protected them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

John Helpher

John 3:16
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2020
1,345
479
45
Houston
✟85,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
True John, my comment earlier was in regards to how enforcement or punishment for non-compliance would take place under civil law. For example non-compliance for not bowing down and worshiping the golden statue for God's people of Danial 2 was the fiery furnace (death).

Hi LGW. Thanks for that clarification. Regarding enforcement of the mark, I don't think there will need to be much enforcement for most of the world; they will take it because they want to pay the bills. I believe this is at least part of the great deception of the time; most people will view the mark as just another aspect of normal, every-day banking. They will believe that the real mark will be some kind of overt, religious ritual, like a ritual scar on the hand or worship on a particular day of the week.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hi LGW. Thanks for that clarification. Regarding enforcement of the mark, I don't think there will need to be much enforcement for most of the world; they will take it because they want to pay the bills. I believe this is at least part of the great deception of the time; most people will view the mark as just another aspect of normal, every-day banking. They will believe that the real mark will be some kind of overt, religious ritual, like a ritual scar on the hand or worship on a particular day of the week.
Hi John, sorry was away from this for a while... How do you read the following scriptures?

REVELATION 13:15-17 [15], And he had power to give life to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. [16], And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

blessings
 
Upvote 0

John Helpher

John 3:16
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2020
1,345
479
45
Houston
✟85,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
How do you read the following scriptures?

REVELATION 13:15-17 [15], And he had power to give life to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. [16], And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It sounds like a global, monetary system used to control who may buy or sell. For most people, this won't be a problem as they have no problem regarding their relationship to money. They will view the mark not as some kind of religious issue, but rather as just the next step in the evolution of money. It will be ordinary for them.

But, anyone who takes prophecy seriously, or who is sensitive to a need to confront our greed and materialism will not see it as just another way to perform normal banking and shopping. They will reject it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It sounds like a global, monetary system used to control who may buy or sell. For most people, this won't be a problem as they have no problem regarding their relationship to money. They will view the mark not as some kind of religious issue, but rather as just the next step in the evolution of money. It will be ordinary for them.

But, anyone who takes prophecy seriously, or who is sensitive to a need to confront our greed and materialism will not see it as just another way to perform normal banking and shopping. They will reject it.

Maybe the buy and sell maybe part of some type of monetary system. I read the scriptures though as a type of enforcement for non-compliance. It seems amazing that this beast also has power to put people to death who do not comply. Did you notice there was two beasts in Revelation 13?
 
Upvote 0