Observations About Free-willian Bible Interpretation And Free-willian Writings

Kermos · Nov 22, 2020

More scripture showing God's sovereign domain in the salvation of man. Man is entirely impotent with respect to salvation.

The Apostle Paul wrote: "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7).

According to Paul, God saved us, not us saving us, but God saving us!
According to Paul, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, not us saving us by the work of a choice toward God which is by definition righteousness.
According to Paul, according to His mercy, not by our meritorious act by which God would owe us something but rather by God's mercy
According to Paul, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, not by our own washing but the washing by God which clearly relates to the washing in John chapter 13
According to Paul, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, not by our own payment of a choice toward God but rather God rich outpouring
According to Paul, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life, not by our work but rather gracious work of God (John 6:29)

Again, the Apostle Paul wrote: "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:4).

According to Paul, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, not us choosing Him
According to Paul, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love, thus incorporating salvation and sanctification

Moreover, , the Apostle Paul wrote: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

According to Paul, For by grace you have been saved through faith, in ALL these things, God's grace and God's saving and the belief/faith put in by God Who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
According to Paul, that not of yourselves, the creature not generating grace nor saved nor faith
According to Paul, not as a result of works, the creature not even performing the work of a choice
According to Paul, so that no one may boast, it is sin for the creature to boast with the words "I choose Jesus"
According to Paul, For we are His workmanship, not our own workmanship
According to Paul, created in Christ Jesus for good works, but self willed people (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to do a good work on their own which is their own workmanship of a choice toward God, yet believers believe Jesus Who says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God"
According to Paul, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them, God is in control such that which God wants will come to pass

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

FreeGrace2 · Nov 22, 2020

Kermos said:
More scripture showing God's sovereign domain in the salvation of man. Man is entirely impotent with respect to salvation.

The Apostle Paul wrote: "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7).

According to Paul, God saved us, not us saving us, but God saving us!

According to Paul, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, not us saving us by the work of a choice toward God which is by definition righteousness.

According to Paul, according to His mercy, not by our meritorious act by which God would owe us something but rather by God's mercy

According to Paul, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, not by our own washing but the washing by God which clearly relates to the washing in John chapter 13

According to Paul, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, not by our own payment of a choice toward God but rather God rich outpouring

According to Paul, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life, not by our work but rather gracious work of God (John 6:29)

Again, the Apostle Paul wrote: "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:4).

According to Paul, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, not us choosing Him

According to Paul, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love, thus incorporating salvation and sanctification

Moreover, , the Apostle Paul wrote: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

According to Paul, For by grace you have been saved through faith, in ALL these things, God's grace and God's saving and the belief/faith put in by God Who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

According to Paul, that not of yourselves, the creature not generating grace nor saved nor faith

According to Paul, not as a result of works, the creature not even performing the work of a choice

According to Paul, so that no one may boast, it is sin for the creature to boast with the words "I choose Jesus"

According to Paul, For we are His workmanship, not our own workmanship

According to Paul, created in Christ Jesus for good works, but self willed people (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to do a good work on their own which is their own workmanship of a choice toward God, yet believers believe Jesus Who says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God"

According to Paul, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them, God is in control such that which God wants will come to pass

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election.

If you can't, you have no point.

5thKingdom · Nov 23, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election. If you can't, you have no point.

LOL

.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 23, 2020

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election. If you can't, you have no point.

5thKingdom said:
LOL

Well, there you go. Laughter is the best medicine. Esp when you DON'T have any verses that teach what you believe.

Yet, I can easily provide several dozen verses that very clearly and directly that salvation and eternal life are by faith in Christ. No election mentioned.

5thKingdom · Nov 24, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election. If you can't, you have no point.

Well, there you go. Laughter is the best medicine. Esp when you DON'T have any verses that teach what you believe.

Yet, I can easily provide several dozen verses that very clearly and directly that salvation and eternal life are by faith in Christ. No election mentioned.

LOL.... read post 235 on the other thread.
I provided you dozens of verses that you refuse to address.
Do you REALLY think that pretending makes something real?
Again you demonstrate WHY you cannot be taken seriously.

,

FreeGrace2 · Nov 24, 2020

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election. If you can't, you have no point.

5thKingdom said:
LOL.... read post 235 on the other thread.

That's the best you can do? Can''t even quote just one verse?

Your extremely long posts with verses that DON'T support your claims does not work.

Just one, YOUR very best and clearest verse. And you can't do it.

I provided you dozens of verses that you refuse to address.

I'm looking for YOUR very best ONE.

I'm not going to address "dozens" of verses that DON'T support what you claim.

I DO want to see your SINGLE and most clear verse about election is to salvation.

btw, why do you think Jesus Christ was elected for salvation. Just curious.

Do you REALLY think that pretending makes something real?

I'm still looking for your single best verse.

Again you demonstrate WHY you cannot be taken seriously.

This is what is NOT serious; when asked for your single best verse, you have to punt and throw out "dozens".

It's ok to just admit that you don't have any.

5thKingdom · Nov 24, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election. If you can't, you have no point.

That's the best you can do? Can''t even quote just one verse?

Your extremely long posts with verses that DON'T support your claims does not work.

Just one, YOUR very best and clearest verse. And you can't do it.

I'm looking for YOUR very best ONE.

I'm not going to address "dozens" of verses that DON'T support what you claim.

I DO want to see your SINGLE and most clear verse about election is to salvation.

btw, why do you think Jesus Christ was elected for salvation. Just curious.

I'm still looking for your single best verse.

This is what is NOT serious; when asked for your single best verse, you have to punt and throw out "dozens".

It's ok to just admit that you don't have any.

And all of this nonsense above is WHY you cannot be
taken seriously... and are a complete waste of time to
talk to. When you have addressed the DOZENS of
(wait for it....) SCRIPTURES I provided contradicting
your delusions, then (and only then) can you expect
to have a "conversation".

Jim

5thKingdom · Nov 24, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
This is what is NOT serious; when asked for your single best verse, you have to punt and throw out "dozens".

NEWS FLASH:
The only measure of Biblical Truth is harmony of ALL RELATED
Scriptures. It is not possible to take ONE (or two) Scriptures
and determine Biblical Truth. Anyone who thinks otherwise
has no concept whatsoever of Truth or how the Bible was
written.

In fact, the BIBLE ITSELF insists the same.
You must compare Scripture with Scripture.

In your case, you have delusions that contradict DOZENS
of Scriptures and, in order to defend your delusions you
MUST address those DOZENS of Scriptures. For you to
then insist on only addressing ONE passage is comical...
and the farthest thing from the Biblical standard.

This is another reason WHY you cannot be taken seriously.
You do not even understand the most basic and essential
elements of Bible study.

Jim

FreeGrace2 · Nov 24, 2020

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please quote the VERY BEST and CLEAREST verse that says that salvation is by election. If you can't, you have no point.

5thKingdom said:
And all of this nonsense above is WHY you cannot be
taken seriously... and are a complete waste of time to
talk to.

What I've been observing is that YOU YOURSELF cannot provide ANY verse that supports your position; that salvation is by election.

And I have provided verses that do support my position.

So, who shouldn't be taken seriously? YOU.

When you have addressed the DOZENS of
(wait for it....) SCRIPTURES I provided contradicting
your delusions, then (and only then) can you expect
to have a "conversation".

Jim

Just a waste of time. I've seen all of your "dozens". And NONE of them clearly indicate that election is to salvation.

Yet, I have given you ALL the examples in the Bible of those described as "elect" or have been elected, and NONE of the examples were to salvation.

And you haven't addressed the problem that YOUR theology creates; explain how Jesus Christ was chosen for salvation.

When you're done with that, explain how the entire nation of Israel was chosen for salvation.

When you're done with that, explain how angels are chosen for salvation.

If you don't do that, it is YOU that can't be taken seriously.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 24, 2020

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
This is what is NOT serious; when asked for your single best verse, you have to punt and throw out "dozens".

5thKingdom said:
NEWS FLASH:
The only measure of Biblical Truth is harmony of ALL RELATED
Scriptures. It is not possible to take ONE (or two) Scriptures
and determine Biblical Truth.

Sure it's possible. But you KNOW that you can't do that, so you punt.

Anyone who thinks otherwise
has no concept whatsoever of Truth or how the Bible was
written.

In fact, it is YOU who "has no concdpt whatsoever of Truth or how the Bible was written".

In fact, the BIBLE ITSELF insists the same.
You must compare Scripture with Scripture.

Again, you have FAILED to provide any verse that says what you claim.

In your case, you have delusions that contradict DOZENS
of Scriptures

I don't have delusions. I have Scriptural truth, that REFUTES your delusions about your "dozens" of verses that don't say what you claim.

5thKingdom · Nov 25, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
What I've been observing is that YOU YOURSELF cannot provide ANY verse that supports your position; that salvation is by election.
.

We have already done this. I provided DOZENS of verses and
you ignored them.

When you can name ONE PERSON who was saved and NOT
"chosen" or "elected" before the world began (based ONLY
on God's Good Purpose) then, and only then, can you expect
to be taken seriously.

Jim

5thKingdom · Nov 25, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Again, you have FAILED to provide any verse that says what you claim.

You KNOW that I provided DOZENS of verses you ignored.
So now, not only can you not be taken seriously... but
you cannot be considered to be honest either.

Jim

FreeGrace2 · Nov 25, 2020

5thKingdom said:
We have already done this. I provided DOZENS of verses and
you ignored them.

I told you why, too. Your "interpretations" aren't even close.

When you can name ONE PERSON who was saved and NOT
"chosen" or "elected" before the world began (based ONLY
on God's Good Purpose) then, and only then, can you expect
to be taken seriously.

Jim

Eph 1:4 makes very clear that ALL believers were chosen before the foundation of the world. So there.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 25, 2020

5thKingdom said:
You KNOW that I provided DOZENS of verses you ignored.
So now, not only can you not be taken seriously... but
you cannot be considered to be honest either.

Jim

It is your opinions that cannot be taken seriously.

5thKingdom · Nov 25, 2020

5thKingdom said: ↑
We have already done this. I provided DOZENS of verses and
you ignored them.

FreeGrace2 said:
I told you why, too. Your "interpretations" aren't even close.

NEWS FLASH
(1) Biblical quotes are NOT "interpretations" and
(2) If you could REFUTE them you would not IGNORE them...
that is the "fruit" of a real saint.

BTW... I cannot be bothered reading your posts anymore
since you cannot be taken seriously while IGNORING Scriptures
that contradict your "theories".

Jim

5thKingdom · Nov 25, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
It is your opinions that cannot be taken seriously.

Again, Biblical QUOTES are not interpretations.
You should know that by now, but you clearly do not.
You PRETEND that all "opinions" are equally valid, but that
is just you pretending to yourself.

Jim

FreeGrace2 · Nov 25, 2020

5thKingdom said:
NEWS FLASH
(1) Biblical quotes are NOT "interpretations" and
(2) If you could REFUTE them you would not IGNORE them...
that is the "fruit" of a real saint.

How you "use" quotes are the "interpretations".

FreeGrace2 · Nov 25, 2020

5thKingdom said:
You PRETEND that all "opinions" are equally valid, but that
is just you pretending to yourself.
Jim

What a ridiculous claim. No opinions are valid apart from clear evidence.

The pretender here is you.

Kermos · Jan 15, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
Then please prove your claim with verses that actually and clearly say so.

The Word of God speaks for Himself. Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Unfortunately, you are only "seeing" salvation being mentioned, when in fact, Jesus didn't even use the word. And the verse you misrepresented here (Matt 22:14) isn't even about salvation, as you presume. It's about service. And it's in a context about service. Since the improperly dressed man was IN the banquet should convince you that he was saved, otherwise, he wouldn't have been allowed in.

But, being improperly dressed shows that he wasn't following the rules. In Jesus' day, the guests were provided the "wedding clothes" to wear at the banquet. The man at issue didn't follow the rules and wear what was provided.

What's the teaching here? Those believers who don't take advantage of what God provides all believers have not been chosen for service. He was called (invited) to service, but he didn't answer that call.

All verses that address purpose are to service.

You haven't provided ANY verses that teach that salvation is by election.

Your claim. Not the Bible's claim.

This verse does not support your conclusion.

Please back up your claim from Scripture.

No, I have quoted many verses where the obvious goal of election is service. And you have provided NO verses that clearly define election as to salvation.

Then please explain how. I'm not going to take your word for anything. You NEED to use Scripture that plainly says what you claim.

When Lord Jesus says "For many are called, but few [are] chosen" (Matthew 22:14), He concludes a parable about salvation (Matthew 22:1-14).

As the King entered the room, the King discovered the improperly dressed man (Matthew 22:11).

The "entered the room" means the people in the hall were waiting for the banquet to start; in other words, the banquet had not started; therefore, your ill-drawn conclusion that the improperly dressed man was saved is clearly error.

There are people who think they are saved by attempting to climb up some other way (John 10:1), but they do not come in by the Way (John 14:6). The improperly dressed man in the parable illustrates just such a person attempting to climb up some other way.

The King had his servants "bind" the improperly dressed man "hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth", and the King does not place a saved person from the place of punishment. A saved person is saved FROM the place of punishment; moreover, a saved person is saved INTO the place of joy forevermore.

The improperly dressed man was summoned into the banquet, but the improperly dressed man was not chosen by the King, so the improperly dressed man was condemned (not saved).

Clearly, Jesus' parable climax indicates the parable is about salvation and damnation.

As Lord Jesus made abundantly clear, many are called - such as the improperly dressed man, but few are chosen - such as the properly dressed persons.

The improperly dressed man fails to have the appropriate clothing on for the feast, so the Heavenly message of the parable Lord Jesus conveys the requirement of persons being clothed in Christ to enter eternal life (Romans 13:14), covered by the blood of Jesus in saving grace (1 John 1:7).

You are half right. That means you are half WRONG. That's the problem in evangelicalism today. They get parts of Scripture right, but then get a lot WRONG as well.

The reason the "us" in Eph 1:4 is the "Assemby of God" (by that, I assume you mean saved believers) is because Eph 1:19 actually defines who the "us" are, which is: "us who believe".

So, your second sentence is WRONG, because Eph 1:4 says that God chose US, that being saved believers. So the verse CANNOT be saying that God chose anyone for salvation, since by DEFINITION (v.19) the "us" is "us who believe".

If Eph 1:4 said "God chose us to believe", then you'd have a point. But it doesn't say that. In fact, it says very plainly and clearly that "God chose US (saved believers) to be holy and blameless". So the purpose of the election of believers is for service.

In Ephesians 1:4, you are confused about time reference as well as too narrow a focus with in a phrase or passage (such as taking the whole of Ephesians, again you not taking scripture with scripture).

As to time reference, there is mention of "before the foundation of the world", so let's see a paraphrase of what Paul wrote in the first four verses of Ephesians:

God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world be holy and blameless before Him in Love!

Blameless is to be without blame for sin.

To be without blame for sin IS MEANT AS to be saved.

Thus, the chosen by God is unto salvation.

As to you too narrowly focusing, in the second chapter of Ehpesians, Paul wrote that "saved" and "faith/belief" are gifts of God with:
"by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therein we have "grace" and "saved" and "faith" all being attributed to God.

BTW, Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The Word of God says faith/belief in Jesus whome the Father has sent is the work of God!

Faith in the One True God is not a work of man. God must choose the man, and man cannot choose God.

Chosen and blameless (Ephesians 1:1-4), clothed in Christ to enter eternal life (Romans 13:14), covered by the blood of Jesus in saving grace (1 John 1:7).

Here's a passage that is crystal clear about the purpose of election:

1 Peter 1-
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God??s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

The red words speak of God's election very clearly.

The blue words speak of the purpose of election, again very clearly.

Your argument is against Scripture.

Respecting 1 Peter 1:1-2, you highlighted in blue "to be obedient to Jesus Christ" which is about service, yet you neglected to place the blue highlight on the words of "sprinkled with his blood" which refers to salvation!

Brother Peter essentially writes:

To the children of God chosen according to the foreknowledge of God in the sanctifying work of the Spirit to obey Jesus Christ and to be covered by Jesus Christ's blood, blessings in the fullest measure.

Peter wrote it specifically as:

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure" (1 Peter 1:1-2).

In the fullness of Peter's writing, we find God chooses unto salvation and service.

Chosen and sprinkled with His blood (1 Peter 1:1-2), clothed in Christ to enter eternal life (Romans 13:14), covered by the blood of Jesus in saving grace (1 John 1:7).

Anyone who claims to choose Jesus Christ defies Jesus Christ Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

NOTICE THE PATTERN OF CLOTHED IN CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS IN MATTHEW 22:1-14, EPHESIANS 1:1-4, AND 1 PETER 1:1-2 - BEING COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST FOR SALVATION! IT'S ALL CHRIST!

5thKingdom · Jan 15, 2021

Kermos said:
As the King entered the room, the King discovered the improperly dressed man (Matthew 22:11).

The context of those in the "Kingdom of Heaven" of Mat 22:2-7
is the Jewish Kingdom.

The context of those in verses 8-14 are them "harvested" OUT
of the Jewish Kingdom - and into the Christian Kingdom.
This is also shown in Mat 21:43 and John 4:35.

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN FROM YOU, [the Jews] and GIVEN TO A NATION
bringing forth the fruits thereof. [the Christians]

Joh 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold,
I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields;
for they are white already to harvest.

Now, notice the NATURE of the "harvest" of men into the
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" is BOTH the "good and bad"

Mat 22:10
So those servants went out into the highways, and
gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good:
and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Of course this harmonizes with Matthew 13 when Jesus explained
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" contained BOTH saved "wheat"
sown by God and destined to eternal life AND unsaved "tares"
sown by Satan and destined to eternal torment.
[Mat 13:24-30 and 36-43]

And, once again, this is confirmed by Jesus [Mat 13:47-50]
when Jesus explained the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" is like
a net thrown into the sea and catches "every kind" of fish which
are separated at the end of the world (like the "wheat and tares")

Jim

Observations About Free-willian Bible Interpretation And Free-willian Writings

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