Authority, are you in it?

mlepfitjw

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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1- no as Jesus is our Lord and we are not to lord things over others. Now accountability in a church setting is different and a little leaven leavens the whole lump and there is a biblical way to deal with willful sin in the church.

2- God had chosen the Jews as His people from the beginning. Jesus went to His people and as Scripture say His own received Him not so the Gentiles were included as the people of God and both Jew and Gentile make up the body of Christ. The Church is one people under the New Covenant. Many OT prophecies predicted the Spirit would be upon all people, all nations and not just the Jews/Israel. We see its fulfillment in Acts and the Epistles.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Dave L

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
Scripture controls those God gave understanding to.

All believing gentiles were and continue to be made part of biblical Israel.
 
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Joyous Song

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Agallagher: Here is a thought provoking question. Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Matt.23 clearly states the scribes and Pharisees sit on the seat of Moshe so listen to what they say but do not follow their example. Likewise in Matt.16 Christ tells Peter he is the rock He will build His Church upon. and at the end of three of the four Gospels if I remembering correctly the disciples and those directly connected to them would be given the right to "loosen and bind" at least till Christ comes again.

Agallagher: Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?

He also handpicked Paul and sent Him to the gentiles. Why Paul explains in Rom.11, is a mystery we are explaining right now and have several PDF available in Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum:

Revelation 1: /www.christianforums.com/threads/revelations-chapter-1.8176788/
Is.28: Isaiah 28 -PDF
Prophets of the New Covenant: Prophets in the New Covenant
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?

Yes and no. Objectively many could argue no, subjectively I could argue yes.

Basically I believe in the basic authority structure you see in the ancient churches like the Catholic church, Orthodox churches etc. Bishops, presbyters and deacons.

I technically am a lapsed Coptic Orthodox. My wife flaked on the church years before we got divorced. She loved going to the church at least with me. But when I resumed a non traditional work schedule her attendance waned even though she had lots of friendly people in the church, and eventually stopped altogether my occasional church attendance going to special mid week and Saturday evening services soon out stripped hers. And eventually the church people got suspicious obviously assuming a divorce (made worse by the fact I stopped wearing my wedding ring since it bothered me typing on a computer key board). And I felt uncomfortable enough to stop going before the divorce..... And of course the actual divorce does not improve things.


On the positive side of things coming from the Charismatic movement I have been generally open to the notion of where is God leading me. As well as other issues, especially things like using you spiritual gifts etc. The parable of the talents especially comes to mind, where the wicked servant doesn't use his investment etc. So I have continued on being active in trying to develop ministry or at least help people with the things I have when it comes to teaching, and sometimes prayer, and sometimes even financial and other forms of practical aid.

There is a saying that "When life gives you lemons make lemonade" and I have tried to do that. Also in theology, philosophy etc. it is recognized that conflict and crises can lead to new solutions and things society needs. And when it comes to my own life, I sort of find the need to try to pioneer something different. I have a lot of experience and education that has mostly gone unused in different fields like psychology (was not able to finish my masters degree to have a career). And that sort of thing can make you sad when you reflect on the past. But their is suppose to be no waste with God.... And all the experiences are suppose to eventually be for out good if we are in Faith.

So I seem to be on the slow road of trying to carve out some kind of new pathway that can let me use all the stuff I have learned in my life from: psychology, my early years as a Lutheran, my time as a nondenominational Charismatic, 3 years taking courses part time at Fuller Theological seminary, my time studying Orthodoxy, and time spent in the Coptic church. In the past I had some affinity for things like Apologetics, and seem to be doing that, as well as other things like Biblical commentary etc.

I could easily go back to the Coptic church etc. because their is a lot of things I miss about it. But I think I got more out of attending those kind of churches, that I could really give or make use of my gifts etc. But I believe that God often shows you what to do, by pointing out "the low hanging fruit" around you (In the Bible, their are many occasions where he uses some aspect of what the person has immediately available to them). So I am doing that, but open to change for the future....
 
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SolaChristian

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Agallagher: Here is a thought provoking question. Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Matt.23 clearly states the scribes and Pharisees sit on the seat of Moshe so listen to what they say but do not follow their example. Likewise in Matt.16 Christ tells Peter he is the rock He will build His Church upon. and at the end of three of the four Gospels if I remembering correctly the disciples and those directly connected to them would be given the right to "loosen and bind" at least till Christ comes again.

Agallagher: Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?

He also handpicked Paul and sent Him to the gentiles. Why Paul explains in Rom.11, is a mystery we are explaining right now and have several PDF available in Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum:

Revelation 1: /www.christianforums.com/threads/revelations-chapter-1.8176788/
Is.28: Isaiah 28 -PDF
Prophets of the New Covenant: Prophets in the New Covenant

I'm just curious - why do you interpret Jesus as saying that Peter is the rock upon which he will build his church? Do you think there is a different way of understanding this verse? And the Greek grammar in that verse is actually "whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven". Do you think that this changes the meaning that you ascribed to it?
 
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chevyontheriver

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?
You speak of twelve hand-picked apostles below. They did have some authority. Ask Ananias with his wife Sapphira.
Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
I'm thinking of the Centurian, who was not Jewish. Also a Samaritan woman. And right away in Acts an apostle is speaking with an Ethiopian who asks for and receives baptism.
 
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royal priest

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Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
John 4:7-10
There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
 
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Mr. M

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
2 Corinthians 1:24. Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy:
for by faith ye stand.

The model given is that of a faithful and caring shepherd (pastor).
1 Peter 5:
2
Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;
3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;
4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.

Those under that authority are to respond in kind.

Hebrews 13:17. Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

John 4:7-10
There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
Good use of the scriptures brother !!
 
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paul1149

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
There are legitimate spheres of authority, such as a boss over an employee, a parent over a minor child, the government over citizens, that Scripture endorses. But beyond that we don't have leave to control anyone. Even God lets people make their own choices.

Jesus spoke to the Canaanite woman at the well and to the Syro-Phoenician woman with a demonized daughter. He spent time in Samaria and in the regions approaching Tyre and Sidon. It's clear He spoke to non-Jews.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hey you,

Here is a thought provoking question.

Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
We have authority over nothing. It is the will of the Father and His authority that rules us. Many do not do the will of the Father thus, are not walking in His Holy Spirit of truth, though we have free will, that freedom can be used for good or bad purposes. Be blessed,
 
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mlepfitjw

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You guys/girls are right when it comes down to Jesus speaking to others who were from different regions.

The mainly the second question is addressed in whom he did give some authority to, that would have only been to the handpicked 12 disciples who were from the nation of Israel who were all Jewish.

(That authority was basically to share the gospel and to encourage believers in that day to stay in faith and to keep themselves clean and to expect the Lords day for him to come back which the apostle Paul wrote and encouraged many times).​

It seems as Christians we have no authority over anything at all. In this life individuals will all be responsible from themselves and what they have done in this life good or bad.

We are to obey those who are over us as some people shared; also it looked like someone did share that even the apostle Paul talked about not having lordship over anyone’s faith.

  • The is a scripture in Titus or Timothy where it talks about bishops who are in charge of a church must be blameless and we as people are far from what the early church ever looked like.


  • No one still give any scriptures that say anyone has the authority over anyones faith, so that is good thing whew.


Thank you all for the post and hope that it helped.​
 
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Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?

I think we don’t have anything to support the claim Jesus spoke only to gentiles. However, in Bible he says:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

That is why I think it is clear that in every nation, it is possible to become a disciple of Jesus.
 
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Joyous Song

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Sola: I'm just curious - why do you interpret Jesus as saying that Peter is the rock upon which he will build his church? Do you think there is a different way of understanding this verse? And the Greek grammar in that verse is actually "whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven". Do you think that this changes the meaning that you ascribed to it?

JS: First off, we’re not Roman Catholic, yet we still hold to the meaning given for Matt.16:


And I tell you Peter (Petros), and on this rock (patra- Mass of Rock) O will build My Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 18


Peter was designated the rock on which Christ would build the Church of HaShem. So long as those first Disciples and Apostles lived, Peter stood above them all and one took his place afterward. Historically in the West this was the accepted interpretation right up to the Reformation. It came into existence most clearly in the 2nd and 3rd centuries after the Disciples all died and the Church started to grow larger.

I know this because I write historical fiction and years ago did research on how Bishops were consecrated and found that ancient prayer and included it in my story which takes place late into the 2nd century during time of the Great scourge to after Constantine came into power, in the third.

True eastern Europe sees their Prime Bishop differently than Roman Catholics see their pope, but they too link him to apostolic suggestion as can we in the PNCC and our Prime Bishop. Still the Seat of Peter is in Rome! This can be proven from the text on Zerub'babel, which my husband and I will be working on as soon as I publish the PDF on the other Witness.
 
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mlepfitjw

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I technically am a lapsed Coptic Orthodox. My wife flaked on the church years before we got divorced. She loved going to the church at least with me. But when I resumed a non traditional work schedule her attendance waned even though she had lots of friendly people in the church, and eventually stopped altogether my occasional church attendance going to special mid week and Saturday evening services soon out stripped hers. And eventually the church people got suspicious obviously assuming a divorce (made worse by the fact I stopped wearing my wedding ring since it bothered me typing on a computer key board). And I felt uncomfortable enough to stop going before the divorce..... And of course the actual divorce does not improve things.


On the positive side of things coming from the Charismatic movement I have been generally open to the notion of where is God leading me. As well as other issues, especially things like using you spiritual gifts etc. The parable of the talents especially comes to mind, where the wicked servant doesn't use his investment etc. So I have continued on being active in trying to develop ministry or at least help people with the things I have when it comes to teaching, and sometimes prayer, and sometimes even financial and other forms of practical aid.

There is a saying that "When life gives you lemons make lemonade" and I have tried to do that. Also in theology, philosophy etc. it is recognized that conflict and crises can lead to new solutions and things society needs. And when it comes to my own life, I sort of find the need to try to pioneer something different. I have a lot of experience and education that has mostly gone unused in different fields like psychology (was not able to finish my masters degree to have a career). And that sort of thing can make you sad when you reflect on the past. But their is suppose to be no waste with God.... And all the experiences are suppose to eventually be for out good if we are in Faith.

So I seem to be on the slow road of trying to carve out some kind of new pathway that can let me use all the stuff I have learned in my life from: psychology, my early years as a Lutheran, my time as a nondenominational Charismatic, 3 years taking courses part time at Fuller Theological seminary, my time studying Orthodoxy, and time spent in the Coptic church. In the past I had some affinity for things like Apologetics, and seem to be doing that, as well as other things like Biblical commentary etc.

You have a very interesting background Pavel Masko thank you for sharing.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

John 4:7-10
There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

1 scripture; it talking about behaving and respecting anyone is your like a supervisor or above that, police agents, and government, state laws. So we have nothing on our record to give the ones in charge any grief when having an encounter with such a person who is charge. Just like God is our Father, we respect Him, and love him we should show the same expression by the spirit in doing so to all people.

2 scripture; yes that is right He talked with the woman at the well who was a Samarian, explaining a lot in this chapter. About how Jesus could give everlasting waters.

We have authority over nothing. It is the will of the Father and His authority that rules us. Many do not do the will of the Father thus, are not walking in His Holy Spirit of truth, though we have free will, that freedom can be used for good or bad purposes. Be blessed,

Miss Maria, I agree and thank you for your response, many people can learn from us all sharing what we believe, and help others along the way. It is the Father and His authority that is over us, many people do sometimes grieve the holy spirit thankful God does not leave us just because of those times we are good or bad and the spirit grieves us until we try and reconcile with someone. You and your family be blessed too.

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

com7fy8, very nice scripture thank you for sharing.

I think we don’t have anything to support the claim Jesus spoke only to gentiles. However, in Bible he says:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

That is why I think it is clear that in every nation, it is possible to become a disciple of Jesus.

You are right he tell them to make disciples, to help people who learned about the Lord Yeshua, through word of mouth his life, death, burial resurrection, by God. Was spread among the nation and people were taught about Jesus by word of mouth because the nt was not written yet, and the holy spirit through hearing the word, would support people in their faith. Paul did this again later on which the letters in the bible speak about encouraging people in the faith and to be careful not to fall into disbelief.
 
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bèlla

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Man is fallible. God is infallible. The most learned man will err. No one is perfect or mistake free. A wise man recognizes his shortcomings and susceptibilities and surrounds himself with companions who offset them.

In other words, he plays offense against himself. The downside of filling your coffers with yes men is obvious. They’ll follow your lead and fail to challenge you or present a different opinion when needed.

Before I contemplate anyone’s advice, I’m looking for wisdom and a word from God. I’ve had well-meaning leaders advise me from their flesh. They looked through natural eyes and suggested I pursue a course that was opposed to my calling.

I had no interest in shepherding or desire to lead women. But they felt my aptitude and hunger made me a shoe-in for women’s ministry. I’d spoken to a seminary and began to discern. The Lord intervened and prevented me from enrolling in another bible study without specific training that required travel. The challenge was intentional. It allowed me to see my disinterest and lack of passion. That was the point.

Several months later I co-led a group of homeless men. They all came to faith. We experienced a lot of breakthroughs. I was in my element. Praying, sharing, supporting, and nurturing them brought me joy. My burden for the lost shone forth. As did my passion for men. I was operating in my gifting. Not in opposition.

The church was not aware I’d ministered to a homeless man in my area for several months. I was handpicked for the position. They didn’t know but God did.

Many people suggested this and that early in my walk. They meant well. But it wasn’t the right fit. The Lord allowed me to endure it so I’d seek Him first and wouldn’t be led astray. We revisited the lesson until it was ingrained. Until I learned to say; is that a word from God or your opinion? Knowing the difference matters. :)

Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. —Matthew 7:13-14

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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