Is this the voice of the Holy Spirit?

Aaron_Bethlhm

Active Member
Nov 20, 2020
290
101
New Jerusalem (destination)
✟2,224.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
Thank you so much! How may I know when satan is trying to trick me?
While I think you meant how can you know when a voice is tempting you to do evil , how can you know when a voice is satan,
the
question as it is is easier to answer. Satan is always trying to trick everyone , and usually succeeds. Even believers or followers of Jesus are not immune from being tricked, deceived, frequently.
 
Upvote 0

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Of course, God speaks audibly to people. There are myriad instances of this in Scripture. But secretly, in your mind? Not so much. Not at all, really.
What about God speaking "audibly" to people in dreams and visions? During a dream/vision God is directly producing those impressions in the believer's mind (including visual and auditory impressions), isn't he? The dream/vision is not physically happening in real life. So isn't that a clear case of God speaking directly to someone's mind?

Also, what about people with the gift of knowledge and the gift of prophecy? How does God communicate his revelations to people with those gifts? Does he do it with audible voice always? Or does he do it "telepathically" (i.e. secretly to their minds)?

And why would He do so particularly now after He has issued to us the Bible in which He speaks to us about every facet of our lives in Him that we need to know?

I see a few problems with this line of reasoning:

1) In the times of the book of Acts they already had the Torah available. According to your argumentation, since they already had the Torah at hand, there was no need for God to be speaking to people. Yet, we see many instances of God speaking to people in the book of Acts.

2) The Bible has lots of general principles, but it lacks specific case by case instructions. Think of the Holy Spirit giving instructions to Philip to go preach the gospel to the Ethiopian eunuch. Those instructions were super specific for a particular moment and place, and they are nowhere to be found in the Torah. Similarly, there is a potentially unlimited number of concrete situations where a specific set of instructions is pertinent but cannot be found in the Bible. For example, imagine a missionary in a jungle in Africa being instructed by the Holy Spirit about where to go to find shelter and food, and then where the next village is to go preach the gospel, etc. If the Bible had instructions for each possible specific scenario, it would require millions of pages. Nobody would be carrying around a Bible that big.

With what frequency does God speak directly to a person? About as often as we see Him do so in Scripture, which is very rarely indeed. Mind you, with the giving of His word, I expect Him to speak directly audibly to people much, much less.

The Bible doesn't record what happened to the disciples and apostles every second of their lives. Take Ananias as an example, who had a private conversation with the Lord about Paul during a vision. How often did Ananias have experiences like that? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month? Once a year? We lack the information to make that calculation, so your claiming that it rarely happened seems unsubstantiated to me.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: marc b
Upvote 0

Aaron_Bethlhm

Active Member
Nov 20, 2020
290
101
New Jerusalem (destination)
✟2,224.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
How often does a shepherd abandon his own sheep and leave them on their own ?

Did Jesus Tell the Disciples that Jesus would Never Leave them Nor Forsake them ?

When do Jesus' Sheep hear Jesus' Voice ? When do Jesus' Sheep Follow Jesus ?
 
Upvote 0

Jeshu

Bought by His Blood
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2005
15,422
7,571
64
One of the Greatest Places on Earth.
✟600,188.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is what is called a false dichotomy. The choice isn't one or the other, but both. They work together, the Holy Spirit and Holy Scripture. God speaks to His children through His word, illuminated by the Holy Spirit. And in His word, God has imparted to me all that I need to know to walk well with Him. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)



What does it mean to "obey the Holy Spirit in our hearts"? Where does this phrase appear in Scripture? I feel conviction from God's Spirit over my sin; I feel comfort and peace from Him in times of trouble; I find myself strengthened by the Holy Spirit in times of temptation and trial; I see the Holy Spirit transforming my desires and character as I continue to walk with Him in humility and surrender. This is what the Bible says will be the believer's experience of God, of the Holy Spirit. No mention of a divine voice in one's head anywhere in Scripture, however.



Have you really actually considered what Isaiah 30:21 says? It doesn't speak of a voice in one's head, does it? No, it says that the Israelites will hear with their ears the voice of one behind them saying such and such. Where is the teaching, then, of a voice in one's head in this verse?

Does John 14:26 describe the Holy Spirit's teaching as a voice in one's head? The Spirit reminds, brings to remembrance, the teaching of Christ but the apostle John does not say the Spirit will whisper secret spiritual instructions of his own to the believer.

So, who is leading folks away from proper biblical truth here? Who is guilty of eisegesis in interpreting these verses? Not me.

It is a sorry state of affairs that you refuse to heed the voice of God in your life and are still stuck with looking at the letter.

As far as my life is concerned i'm very happy that i learned to heed the voice of God, He speaks to me all day long. He reminds me of His love over me when i forget. He convicts me of sin if i err in my ways. He shows me the truths of Scripture when i'm lost.

Sure He is a voice of loving instruction in my life and i wouldn't want it any different. The whole bible was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who talked the truth into their minds? But yet you stubbornly refuse to heed that lesson.

We have to learn to listen to the voice of God not just the written words. When Jesus was tempted in the desert then satan quoted the bible but Jesus knew he was not to be trusted and heeded the Spirit instead.

You god is like an idol really for he has lips but speaks not. i rejoice in God's voice in my life for His instructions are music to my ears. The living word dwelling in my heart what better Spirit than that to confer with my Spirit?

Like Paul says in Romans 8 He makes me cry out ABBA (Daddy) and which dad gives his children a letter of instruction but does not speak to them? Such a father would be considered harsh

i love it that my mind is governed by the Holy Spirit for He brings me life and peace. There are two witnesses in my heart. The Spirit and the Word.

Romans 8:6 "The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace."

See? God is talking all the time.

Psalm 50:1 "The Mighty One, God, the Lord, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to where it sets."


The Spirit of God speaks non stop to all those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

The many times that the Holy Spirit has arrested me thinking wrongly and correcting me in love and through love or prompting me to pray for my neighbour. That is the very best part of having the Spirit of God guide me.
 
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have heard that the Holy Spirit can speak into our spirits, and recently I have been hearing "voices" inside of me that seem very kind. Like, it tells me to stop and talk to someone, to share the Gospel, or to do something (not evil). I was wondering if the Holy Spirit talks to us in our spirit, and if other people experience things like this.

For example, today, I was walking back to my car, and there was a lady in the car next to me, and she had her windows rolled down. I felt something in my spirit say "Talk to her. Tell her the Gospel." Is this the Holy Spirit?

Yes.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
What about God speaking "audibly" to people in dreams and visions? During a dream/vision God is directly producing those impressions in the believer's mind (including visual and auditory impressions), isn't he? The dream/vision is not physically happening in real life. So isn't that a clear case of God speaking directly to someone's mind?

I guess you haven't been reading my posts carefully - again. Where do I deny God has - and does - communicate to people via dreams and visions? I have been contending with the notion that, as a common, regular experience, people can expect the Holy Spirit to whisper in their minds, giving them instructions and special insights. Such a thing is never described in Scripture, nor is it ever taught as a common part of the Christian life.

I look very askance at Christians telling me they had a dream from God and even more askance at the idea that whatever they dreamed has any value for me as a fellow believer. I don't need a dream; I have God's word that is entirely sufficient to guide me in all Christian doctrine and practice.

But, if you're, say, a Muslim in a Muslim country, cut off from all Christian fellowship and instruction, without access to a Bible and ignorant of the Gospel, then, I think, you're in a circumstance where God may act to direct you through a vision or dream. Such an occasion would require the extenuating circumstances I described, however; dreams and visions are not necessary in places where God's word and His children are readily at hand to teach and guide.

Also, what about people with the gift of knowledge and the gift of prophecy? How does God communicate his revelations to people with those gifts? Does he do it with audible voice always? Or does he do it "telepathically" (i.e. secretly to their minds)?

I am a soft cessationist. I don't think such gifts are active today, for the most part. They were necessary to the establishment and formation of the Early Church but are unnecessary now that the Church has been established and the full counsel of God given to it in His word, the Bible.

1) In the times of the book of Acts they already had the Torah available. According to your argumentation, since they already had the Torah at hand, there was no need for God to be speaking to people. Yet, we see many instances of God speaking to people in the book of Acts.

Do we? To how many people does God speak directly in Acts, exactly? I can think of Paul, and Peter, and Ananias, but who else? Is God speaking directly and audibly to folks a widespread thing in Acts? I don't see that...

And what accompanied the issuance of the New Testament? Miracles. Just as was the case in the OT. In both OT and NT, miracles authenticated the right of those who spoke for God to do so and to write Scripture. Without such miraculous accompaniment, we would have no good reason to accept as authoritative the NT (or the OT). But from Jesus to Paul, all of them showed that God was speaking through them by the miracles they performed. And so, when a first-century Jew might have said, "We have the Torah. What need have we of further word from God?" the answer to him would be the miraculous deeds of Christ and the apostles, indicating that whatever God had said before, He now had something new He wanted to communicate through them.

But the Early Church closed the canon of Scripture long ago, recognizing that the miraculous authority of the apostles was concluded and the word of God complete. And so it has been to this day. There were many other letters and documents available to the Early Church, written by the apostles, that they didn't adopt as Scripture. Clearly, they didn't believe that there was more to add to the canon than what they had formed up organically as Scripture under the common, widespread use of the Early Church.

2) The Bible has lots of general principles, but it lacks specific case by case instructions. Think of the Holy Spirit giving instructions to Philip to go preach the gospel to the Ethiopian eunuch. Those instructions were super specific for a particular moment and place, and they are nowhere to be found in the Torah.

Are we told that Phillip was instructed by a voice in his head to preach to the Ethiopain eunuch? No.

I have no problem whatever with God audibly and directly doing such a thing today. But, He doesn't. Not typically. Instead, we have Christians proclaiming to one another, "God just gave me a word! Listen to me! Listen to God!" To which I say, "Oh, did He, now? I'm just supposed to take your word for it that God just spoke to you, eh? I think not. I have God's word in which He tells me everything I need to know to walk well with Him. If He has something else He wants me to know, I'll wait on Him to tell me Himself directly." I'm not trusting such a thing to anyone else - especially someone who has not clearly established his/her authority to do so with repeated and well-verified miraculous deeds and a spotlessly holy life.

Similarly, there is a potentially unlimited number of concrete situations where a specific set of instructions is pertinent but cannot be found in the Bible. For example, imagine a missionary in a jungle in Africa being instructed by the Holy Spirit about where to go to find shelter and food, and then where the next village is to go preach the gospel, etc. If the Bible had instructions for each possible specific scenario, it would require millions of pages. Nobody would carry around a Bible that big.

You downplay far too much how widely God's word can be successfully applied. In Scripture, I think God has outfitted us with spiritual principles, wisdom, commands and truth sufficient to navigate well 99% of life's circumstances. This has certainly been my experience. But it takes a thorough knowledge of His word, real, careful and prolonged study of it, that few "God speaks to me" types actually possess or have done. And why would they when they think it's unnecessary? Why study God's word when the Holy Spirit will lead you about by the nose at every turn instead?

The Bible doesn't record what happened to the disciples and apostles every second of their lives. Take for example Ananias, who had a private conversation with the Lord about Paul during a vision. How often did Ananias had experiences like that? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month? Once a year? We lack information to make that estimation, so claiming that it rarely happened seems pretty unsubstantiated to me.

You will answer that question according to your presuppositions, I expect. The OT seems like God was acting in extraordinary fashion all the time. But the accounts of the Exodus, or of Elijah and the prophets of Baal, or Naaman bathing in Jordan, or the fall of Jericho are widely separated in time from one another. They are all crammed together in the record of the OT, but they didn't happen in rapid succession. And between the last OT book and the events of the NT there are hundreds of years of silence, of no record of God doing anything remarkable.

After the events of Acts, do we read of more wild, rapid-fire supernatural occurrences? Not really, no. Does Paul miraculously heal his sick traveling companion, Trophimus? No. He leaves him behind to get well naturally. Does he write to Timothy that he needs only to believe that his stomach complaint will be healed in order for it to be so? No. Paul tells Timothy to take some wine as a medicinal remedy. Do any of the writers of the NT teach specifically and explicitly that we ought to expect as Christians a near-constant stream of supernatural, miraculous events? No. None of them ever teach, either, that, as a common experience, the Holy Spirit will speak to believers in their minds. Why is that, if it is so much a part of walking with God? They never taught, "You must train yourself to hear the voice of the Spirit," or "You will only recognize the Spirit's voice if you are a spiritually mature Christian," or whatever. The NT is entirely devoid of such instruction. So, why, then are Christians teaching each other these things as though they are found in the Bible? Because, they don't really know their Bibles; because they are mostly spiritual juveniles, or false brethren, ripe in their ignorance for adopting false doctrine.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Of course, God speaks audibly to people. There are myriad instances of this in Scripture. But secretly, in your mind? Not so much. Not at all, really. And why would He do so particularly now after He has issued to us the Bible in which He speaks to us about every facet of our lives in Him that we need to know?

With what frequency does God speak directly to a person? About as often as we see Him do so in Scripture, which is very rarely indeed. Mind you, with the giving of His word, I expect Him to speak directly and audibly to people much, much less.

God dwells in the believer, Romans 8:8-11, our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Jesus said His sheep hear His voice John 10:27, Jesus dwells in our heart Ephesians 3:17.

God speaking to us from within is normative Christianity.

The Holy Spirit speaks frequently to the apostles and Paul wrote for us to listen when the Spirit speaks to us.
I have heard that the Holy Spirit can speak into our spirits, and recently I have been hearing "voices" inside of me that seem very kind. Like, it tells me to stop and talk to someone, to share the Gospel, or to do something (not evil). I was wondering if the Holy Spirit talks to us in our spirit, and if other people experience things like this.

For example, today, I was walking back to my car, and there was a lady in the car next to me, and she had her windows rolled down. I felt something in my spirit say "Talk to her. Tell her the Gospel." Is this the Holy Spirit?
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It is a sorry state of affairs that you refuse to heed the voice of God in your life and are still stuck with looking at the letter.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

As far as my life is concerned i'm very happy that i learned to heed the voice of God, He speaks to me all day long. He reminds me of His love over me when i forget. He convicts me of sin if i err in my ways. He shows me the truths of Scripture when i'm lost.

Uh huh. He does the same for me - just not via a voice in my head.

Sure He is a voice of loving instruction in my life and i wouldn't want it any different. The whole bible was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who talked the truth into their minds? But yet you stubbornly refuse to heed that lesson.

You make an assumption about how the Holy Spirit acted to communicate the Scriptures to the apostles. John, at least, we know did not have a voice whispering in his head for the writing of the Revelation. You are just as stubbornly holding to your ASSUMPTION about Scripture as I am to not doing so.

We have to learn to listen to the voice of God not just the written words. When Jesus was tempted in the desert then satan quoted the bible but Jesus knew he was not to be trusted and heeded the Spirit instead.

See? More mishandling of God's word. The account in Matthew 4 does not say what you have here.

You god is like an idol really for he has lips but speaks not. i rejoice in God's voice in my life for His instructions are music to my ears. The living word dwelling in my heart what better Spirit than that to confer with my Spirit?

Still using Strawman arguments, I see.

Like Paul says in Romans 8 He makes me cry out ABBA (Daddy) and which dad gives his children a letter of instruction but does not speak to them? Such a father would be considered harsh

Such a HUMAN father, yes, would be. But God is not a human. He is in another category of being entirely from us. Your analogy, then, is very inapt.

i love it that my mind is governed by the Holy Spirit for He brings me life and peace. There are two witnesses in my heart. The Spirit and the Word.

Uh huh. God's Spirit governs my mind, as well. Just not with secret whispers in my head.

See? God is talking all the time.

That's not what the verses actually say, though. Again, you're forcing into the verse what you want it to say. But, anyway, God is speaking - every time I open His word and read it or His Spirit brings His word to my mind.

The Spirit of God speaks non stop to all those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

Yup. And as this passage tells us, no voice in one's head is required. Creation itself testifies to God, to His glory and power.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
God dwells in the believer, Romans 8:8-11, our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Jesus said His sheep hear His voice John 10:27, Jesus dwells in our heart Ephesians 3:17.

God speaking to us from within is normative Christianity.

The Holy Spirit speaks frequently to the apostles and Paul wrote for us to listen when the Spirit speaks to us.

Already responded to all this stuff in earlier posts.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Anywhoo...gonna leave off this endless discussion. It's going nowhere. I've said, "The Emperor has no clothes!" and some of you clearly don't want to admit this is so. Okay. It's not my job to make you see, only to speak the truth. What you do with the truth is really none of my business, or, at least, it's not in my power to control.

Thanks, all, for the...peculiar conversation.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am a soft cessationist. I don't think such gifts are active today, for the most part. They were necessary to the establishment and formation of the Early Church but are unnecessary now that the Church has been established and the full counsel of God given to it in His word, the Bible.

That is a bogus argument from cessationism.

The 125 people at Pentecost received the Holy Spirit power Acts 1:8 - the word power is Dunamis - miracle working power.

Peter said the same gift of the Holy Spirit they just received is for all who God shall call:

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in effect until Jesus comes and they are no longer needed.

Miracles have always confirmed the word, and the need for that has not ended - this is a day of atheism, unbelief, competing established religions with competing scriptural writing, and doctrines - thus the word needs confirmed more today, than ever.

Certainly therefore, the church has not been established to much of the world - in fact Islam claims the Bible has been corrupted, and God has no son - and there’s a billion Muslims.

I’ve seen testimony from numerous preachers over the years who held evangelistic crusades in third world type nations, who preached to crowds and no one came to faith in Christ - until the Holy Spirit told them to ask for those needing a healing to come forward - and when several were healed in the name of Jesus, then a large number of people came to faith in Christ - because the word was confirmed.
 
Upvote 0

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I’ve seen testimony from numerous preachers over the years who held evangelistic crusades in third world type nations, who preached to crowds and no one came to faith in Christ - until the Holy Spirit told them to ask for those needing a healing to come forward - and when several were healed in the name of Jesus, then a large number of people came to faith in Christ - because the word was confirmed.

I can confirm this as well. See for example this testimony.
Also, check out these books:
https://www.amazon.com/Listen-Me-Satan-Carlos-Annacondia/dp/1599792346
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Still-Surprised-Power-Spirit/dp/031010811X
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Miracles-Journalist-Investigates-Supernatural/dp/0310259185
 
  • Like
Reactions: chad kincham
Upvote 0

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I have been contending with the notion that, as a common, regular experience, people can expect the Holy Spirit to whisper in their minds, giving them instructions and special insights. Such a thing is never described in Scripture, nor is it ever taught as a common part of the Christian life.

1) First of all, you seem way too focused on the "whispering" modality of communication. Forget about "whispering". Let's focus instead on the broader concept, which is direct one-on-one communication between the Holy Spirit and the believer. This communication may happen by hearing and seeing in a dream or vision, by hearing a physically audible voice, by hearing a voice that only you can hear but not other people around you, via a whisper (if God chooses to do so), or even by taking you out of your body and transporting you to the third heaven, etc. Again, we are not to put God in a box. He may choose whatever means and modality He sees fit to send a direct personalized one-on-one message to someone. So we should be looking at the more general question instead: is God still giving direct one-on-one ad hoc messages to people today?

2) I agree that the Bible never says explicitly that direct communication of adhoc messages from God to the believer's mind is something expected to happen frequently. But by the same token, the Bible never says that we should expect it to happen rarely either. What we can be sure about, though, is that, whatever the frequency, it is something that undoubtedly depends upon God's sovereignty first, but also on the spiritual stature of the believer. If Ananias had been a lukewarm carnal Christian, do you think that God would've asked him to go lay hands on Saul to heal his eyesight and have him receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit? Of course not. We can be quite confident that Ananias must've been living a holy, Spirit-filled and Spirit-led life, set apart for God. Likewise, I can only imagine the Holy Spirit frequently speaking and leading someone who is a vessel fully surrendered to the will of God and that God is actively using as instrument.

But, if you're, say, a Muslim in a Muslim country, cut off from all Christian fellowship and instruction, without access to a Bible and ignorant of the Gospel, then, I think, you're in a circumstance where God may act to direct you through a vision of dream.

I can second this. There is plenty of testimonies of this actually happening in Muslim countries. Check out this book for example: https://www.amazon.com/DREAMS-VISIO...849947200/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Such an occasion would require the extenuating circumstances I described, however; dreams and visions are not necessary in places where God's word and His children are readily at hand to teach and guide.
This claim is unjustified and actually refuted by Scripture itself. Again, take the case of Ananias. He already was a believer, he for sure was well-versed in the Torah and had close contact with the apostles, and yet God still deemed useful to talk to him in a vision to lead him to Paul so he could lay his hand on him so that Paul could get healed and receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Or consider the case of Peter in Acts 10, where he received a vision of a sheet with animals from Heaven, and after the vision the Holy Spirit spoke to him directly. Peter was an apostle, he was already saved, he for sure was by that point very well-versed in Scripture. For sure he didn't need dreams or visions according to your flawed logic. Yet God still deemed useful to give him a vision.

Your position is based on a false dichotomy. You are essentially saying "either visions or the Bible". You are forgetting a third option: BOTH. Of course you can benefit tremendously from studying the Bible, no one is denying that, but in addition you can also enjoy the benefits of God-sent dreams and visions from time to time for particular purposes as God sees fit.

By the way, don't forget about the promise:

Joel 2:28-29

“And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.​


I am a soft cessationist. I don't think such gifts are active today, for the most part. They were necessary to the establishment and formation of the Early Church but are unnecessary now that the Church has been established and the full counsel of God given to it in His word, the Bible.

Who cares what you believe. What matters is what is true.

What do you make of passages such as Joel 2:28-29 that I just presented, or Mark 16:17-18:

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well​

Do we? To how many people does God speak directly in Acts, exactly? I can think of Paul, and Peter, and Ananias, but who else?

Philip, and also a group believers who were worshiping God and fasting, as indicated by Acts 13:1-3

1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.​

Is God speaking directly and audibly to folks a widespread thing in Acts? I don't see that...

You are making arguments from ignorance. The book of Acts is not an exhaustive account of every single detail that ever happened, you would need millions of pages if every single millisecond was recorded.

However, we do find Scriptural evidence that the Holy Spirit was actively involved leading and speaking and manifesting in and through the lives of the apostles and disciples who were truly disciples (full of the Spirit, constantly praying and fasting, totally on-fire and sold-out to God). Of course, that level of spiritual maturity is far from being a widespread occurrence nowadays, so it shouldn't surprise you if lukewarm Christians who don't even believe in those manifestations do not experience them.

But the Early Church closed the canon of Scripture long ago, recognizing that the miraculous authority of the apostles was concluded [...]

Any sources to back this up?

Are we told that Phillip was instructed by a voice in his head to preach to the Ethiopain eunuch? No.
Again, it was either a direct telepathic message, or a physically audible voice, but either way it was a direct one-on-one adhoc message nonetheless.

I have no problem whatever with God audibly and directly doing such a thing today. But, He doesn't. Not typically. Instead, we have Christians proclaiming to one another, "God just gave me a word! Listen to me! Listen to God!" To which I say, "Oh, did He, now? I'm just supposed to take your word for it that God just spoke to you, eh? I think not. I have God's word in which He tells me everything I need to know to walk well with Him. If He has something else He wants me to know, I'll wait on Him to tell me Himself directly."

I just imagined you saying that to Ananias. Funny scene.

I'm not trusting such a thing to anyone else - especially someone who has not clearly established his/her authority to do so with repeated and well-verified miraculous deeds and a spotlessly holy life.

This requirement is absurd and unscriptural given that the gift of miracles is not for everyone. Someone who has the gift of prophecy does not necessarily have the gift of miracles.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.​

You downplay far too much how widely God's word can be successfully applied. In Scripture, I think God has outfitted us with spiritual principles, wisdom, commands and truth sufficient to navigate well 99% of life's circumstances.

Ok, then how do you use the scriptures to decide when is the right moment to start/end a fast, or when and where to hold an evangelistic crusade, etc.? As others have pointed out, there are many testimonies of evangelists who share their experiences about being led by the Holy Spirit to initiate fasts or go to specific places to preach the gospel backed up by healing miracles, etc. When you need specific instructions about when, where, what, for how long, when you need to do spiritual warfare and defeat a demonic stronghold, etc. you need specific guidance by the Holy Spirit. You won't find that level of micro-specificity in the Bible.

Why study God's word when the Holy Spirit will lead you about by the nose at every turn instead?

Again, you are posing a false dichotomy. You are saying: "either the Bible or the Holy Spirit". You are forgetting the third option: BOTH.

You will answer that question according to your presuppositions, I expect. The OT seems like God was acting in extraordinary fashion all the time. But the accounts of the Exodus, or of Elijah and the prophets of Baal, or Naaman bathing in Jordan, or the fall of Jericho are widely separated in time from one another. They are all crammed together in the record of the OT, but they didn't happen in rapid succession. And between the last OT book and the events of the NT there are hundreds of years of silence, of no record of God doing anything remarkable.

In short: argument from silence/ignorance. "There are long gaps between events which the Bible is silent about, therefore, nothing happened in between". This is just fallacious.

After the events of Acts, do we read of more wild, rapid-fire supernatural occurrences? Not really, no. Does Paul miraculously heal his sick traveling companion, Trophimus? No. He leaves him behind to get well naturally. Does he write to Timothy that he needs only to believe that his stomach complaint will be healed in order for it to be so? No. Paul tells Timothy to take some wine as a medicinal remedy.

You can't take these two cases and conclude that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. First of all, we are never told the specific reasons why God allowed them to get sick in the first place. Maybe God had a plan for that sickness. Paul himself pleaded with God to remove the "thorn in his flesh" but God denied his request:

2 Corinthians 12:6-10

6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say, 7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
God could've had a particular purpose for those sicknesses and therefore denied miraculously healing them in those particular occasions. Who knows. You can't take those two examples and out of nowhere conclude that the gifts of the spirit have ceased. That's a non sequitur.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jeshu
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well, you're entitled to your view.

:pciuu:

The Bible warns us to stay away from those churches in the last days, that are spiritually dead, dry, lifeless churches, that have a FORM of Godliness, but deny the POWER:

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The word power is DUNAMIS- miracle working, dynamic, Holy Spirit power - the same power that the 125 believers received at Pentecost, Acts 1:8 - that Peter said was the gift of the HS that was for them, their children, for all afar off, even for as many as God shall CALL.

That proves the expiration date for gifts is when God has stopped calling anyone - not when the apostles expired.

2 Timothy 3 starts off with the topic of the last days, BTW, to document it’s talking about shunning churches today that claim miracles and gifts of the HS have ceased.

Shalom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeshu
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

marliebe

Member
Nov 20, 2020
13
8
26
Virginia
✟16,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Hello everyone! Thank you for your replies! I see the differences of viewpoints, and this is also where I am stuck. I think the spiritual gifts are here for today as well as in the past, but hearing God's voice is very new for me. I am not sure whether sometimes it is God or me, and if I am as obligated to obey the voice just as much as I am scripture as well. I see the perspective of aiki, because I once thought these things as well. But, my viewpoint changed as I met thousands of other Christians at my university (I attend Liberty University). I realized that God does speak to our hearts, and I listened to the voice a few times just to see what would happen, and it always seems something amazing that happened. There was one time where the voice told me to drive to a place, and I drove there, and there just so happened to be a lady there whose car broke down. She was from a few states away, and she lost her credit card. On the way there, she said her radio broke and wherever she turned the radio, it would only play the same Christian radio station, no matter which station she changed it to. And we talked, and the Lord gave me the opportunity to share the Gospel with her. However, there have been other times where I really wanted to work out, and the voice inside told me not to. This frustrated me because I didn't see anything wrong with working out, and I needed to keep my schedule. I was wondering that, in these circumstances, if not pertaining to Christian things, if it was still God or if it was my over-sensitive conscience. Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: marc b
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is where this "hearing the voice of the Spirit in your mind" can lead. And, again, we are nowhere taught in all of the New Testament to expect such a voice or to operate on the basis of it.

You can reject the fact that it’s normative for God, and the Holy Spirit to speak to His children, that’s your choice.

Do you ever pray?

Prayer is communicating with God, not a one-way monologue.

Shalom.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: marc b
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Of course, God speaks audibly to people. There are myriad instances of this in Scripture. But secretly, in your mind? Not so much. Not at all, really. And why would He do so particularly now after He has issued to us the Bible in which He speaks to us about every facet of our lives in Him that we need to know?

With what frequency does God speak directly to a person? About as often as we see Him do so in Scripture, which is very rarely indeed. Mind you, with the giving of His word, I expect Him to speak directly and audibly to people much, much less.

God doesn’t speak audibly to us, because He lives in us, thus His voice speaks to believers internally.

Romans 8:9-11 ; Ephesians 3:17 ; 1 Corinthians 6:19.

Shalom.
 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Site Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,290
5,242
45
Oregon
✟958,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Thank you so much! How may I know when satan is trying to trick me?
"Test it" (question it, etc) (maybe even doubt it a little bit, etc) if it ever starts to "turn", or ever asks you to start doing things that directly violate your own will and/or spirit, or that go directly against your own conscience, etc, but other than that, I think it is OK for now, you should just go ahead and follow it for now or until then, etc...

Sounds like it is a good thing right now, at least for now, etc...

Peace,

God Bless!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello everyone! Thank you for your replies! I see the differences of viewpoints, and this is also where I am stuck. I think the spiritual gifts are here for today as well as in the past, but hearing God's voice is very new for me. I am not sure whether sometimes it is God or me, and if I am as obligated to obey the voice just as much as I am scripture as well. I see the perspective of aiki, because I once thought these things as well. But, my viewpoint changed as I met thousands of other Christians at my university (I attend Liberty University). I realized that God does speak to our hearts, and I listened to the voice a few times just to see what would happen, and it always seems something amazing that happened. There was one time where the voice told me to drive to a place, and I drove there, and there just so happened to be a lady there whose car broke down. She was from a few states away, and she lost her credit card. On the way there, she said her radio broke and wherever she turned the radio, it would only play the same Christian radio station, no matter which station she changed it to. And we talked, and the Lord gave me the opportunity to share the Gospel with her. However, there have been other times where I really wanted to work out, and the voice inside told me not to. This frustrated me because I didn't see anything wrong with working out, and I needed to keep my schedule. I was wondering that, in these circumstances, if not pertaining to Christian things, if it was still God or if it was my over-sensitive conscience. Thank you!

You’ll find that the more you listen to that still, small, voice, the better you get at it.

Scripture can’t tell you to turn left instead of right, then to pull into a Walmart parking lot and help someone in dire need that you are directed to look for, but the Holy Spirit can.

Shalom.
 
Upvote 0