Surely Premils must invent 2 future glorifications days separated by 1000 years+?

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Timtofly

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I will take your ongoing avoidance of simple requests for biblical evidence that you do not have any biblical evidence. If you had it, you would be happy to supply.
Well as many times as I freely and happily posted the Scriptures, and you brushed it off, and seeing I am not long suffering like God, then you can stop with the disingenuous rhetoric and be patient yourself. You are the one avoiding the truth of God's Word, not me.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Well as many times as I freely and happily posted the Scriptures, and you brushed it off, and seeing I am not long suffering like God, then you can stop with the disingenuous rhetoric and be patient yourself. You are the one avoiding the truth of God's Word, not me.

If you had something you would post it. You do not. It is not in Scripture. It is a theory you invented which is extra-biblical. You have a habit of doing this. You also have a habit of inventing theories re Amil that have no basis in truth. That is because you cannot deal with the real beliefs of Amil, because they are Bible based.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I have never denied a change. It was the Cross. You claim it was because Satan is bound.
I believe was Christ's death on the cross is what bound Satan (Heb 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8), so I'm saying it's both. Because Christ died on the cross, that bound Satan from being able to do what he was able to do in OT times to that extent anymore until he is loosed/unrestrained again.
 
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Timtofly

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If you had something you would post it. You do not. It is not in Scripture. It is a theory you invented which is extra-biblical. You have a habit of doing this. You also have a habit of inventing theories re Amil that have no basis in truth. That is because you cannot deal with the real beliefs of Amil, because they are Bible based.
So what is your flavor of Amil? All your post to me are I am wrong and invented what you seem to think is wrong, yet you attribute to me stuff I have never heard of.
 
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Timtofly

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I believe was Christ's death on the cross is what bound Satan (Heb 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8), so I'm saying it's both. Because Christ died on the cross, that bound Satan from being able to do what he was able to do in OT times to that extent anymore until he is loosed/unrestrained again.

Yet Satan is not bound. Both Peter and Paul never wrote Satan was bound. Are they liars?

Hebrews 2 is talking about removing the church from Abraham's bosom to Paradise. Since the Atonement was made, the incorruptible body was waiting for all those in Abraham's bosom to recieve the souls that were "dead". Death no longer had them in "death". Not that Satan was bound, but the grip of death no longer bound those in Abraham's bosom.
 
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sovereigngrace

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So what is your flavor of Amil? All your post to me are I am wrong and invented what you seem to think is wrong, yet you attribute to me stuff I have never heard of.

When Jesus comes that is it! Simple! Either saved or lost, caught up or caught on, eternal bliss or eternal torment.
 
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Timtofly

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When Jesus comes that is it! Simple! Either saved or lost, caught up or caught on, eternal bliss or eternal torment.
So you just toss out any Scripture that gets in your way? Does not sound very strategically promising, but why do you so vehemently try to prove every one else wrong. You want them to toss out 98% of God's Word as well?
 
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sovereigngrace

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So you just toss out any Scripture that gets in your way? Does not sound very strategically promising, but why do you so vehemently try to prove every one else wrong. You want them to toss out 98% of God's Word as well?

Not so. We toss out man's extra-biblical inventions that he foists on the sacred text.
 
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sovereigngrace

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So what is your flavor of Amil? All your post to me are I am wrong and invented what you seem to think is wrong, yet you attribute to me stuff I have never heard of.

Here is my synopsis.

(1) Christ appears with His holy angels (Matthew 13:41-43, 49 16:27 24:29-31 25:31-32, Mark 13:25-27, Luke 9:26, Revelation 14:14-20) and the New Jerusalem (John 14:1-3, Hebrews 11:8-10, 13-16, 13:14. Revelation 3:11-12, 21:1-4).

(2) The elect of God, to a man, are immediately rescued to meet Him, as in Noah and Lot’s day (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Philippians 3:11-12,20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:12-28,42-57, 2 Corinthians 1:9-10, Hebrews 11:39-40).

(3) The wicked, to a man, are immediately destroyed, as in Noah and Lot’s day (Joel 2:1-3, Joel 2:10-11, Isaiah 13:6-12, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 3:12, Luke 17:27-30, I Thessalonians 5:2-4, II Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 2:5-9, Revelation 19:17-21).

(4) Satan cast into the Lake of Fire (Isaiah 26:19, II Thessalonians 2:1-9 Revelation 20:10). This occurs before the heaven and earth pass away in Revelation 20.

(5) The heavens elements and the earth and the works that are therein shall be ‘burned up utterly and consumed wholly’ (Isaiah 34:1-4, 8-10, Isaiah 65:17, 66:22, Revelation 6:13-14, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 16:17-21, Joel 1:15, Joel 2:1-3, 10-11, Isaiah 24:19-21, 2 Peter 3:7-13, Zephaniah 3:8 Revelation 20:11, 21:1-3).

(6) The New Jerusalem then comes down upon the New Earth (John 14:1-3, Revelation 21:1-4).

(7) The wicked are then raised (Daniel 12:1-3, John 5:28-29, Acts 24:15) for judgment .

(8) Both the wicked and the righteous are brought before the same throne of God for the final judgment (Matthew 13:24-30, 39-43, 47-50, 25:14, 19-30 Acts 17:31 Romans 2:5-16, 2 Timothy 4:1-8 Jude 1:14-15 Revelation 11:18, 20:12-13, 22:12).

(9) The wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever (Matthew 13:24-30, 39-43, 47-50, 25:14, 19-30, Rev 20:15)

(10) The righteous enter the New Jerusalem the New Earth (John 14:1-3, Revelation 21:1-4) where will live forever.
 
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Timtofly

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Here is my synopsis.

(1) Christ appears with His holy angels (Matthew 13:41-43, 49 16:27 24:29-31 25:31-32, Mark 13:25-27, Luke 9:26, Revelation 14:14-20) and the New Jerusalem (John 14:1-3, Hebrews 11:8-10, 13-16, 13:14. Revelation 3:11-12, 21:1-4).

(2) The elect of God, to a man, are immediately rescued to meet Him, as in Noah and Lot’s day (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Philippians 3:11-12,20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:12-28,42-57, 2 Corinthians 1:9-10, Hebrews 11:39-40).

(3) The wicked, to a man, are immediately destroyed, as in Noah and Lot’s day (Joel 2:1-3, Joel 2:10-11, Isaiah 13:6-12, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 3:12, Luke 17:27-30, I Thessalonians 5:2-4, II Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 2:5-9, Revelation 19:17-21).

(4) Satan cast into the Lake of Fire (Isaiah 26:19, II Thessalonians 2:1-9 Revelation 20:10). This occurs before the heaven and earth pass away in Revelation 20.

(5) The heavens elements and the earth and the works that are therein shall be ‘burned up utterly and consumed wholly’ (Isaiah 34:1-4, 8-10, Isaiah 65:17, 66:22, Revelation 6:13-14, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 16:17-21, Joel 1:15, Joel 2:1-3, 10-11, Isaiah 24:19-21, 2 Peter 3:7-13, Zephaniah 3:8 Revelation 20:11, 21:1-3).

(6) The New Jerusalem then comes down upon the New Earth (John 14:1-3, Revelation 21:1-4).

(7) The wicked are then raised (Daniel 12:1-3, John 5:28-29, Acts 24:15) for judgment .

(8) Both the wicked and the righteous are brought before the same throne of God for the final judgment (Matthew 13:24-30, 39-43, 47-50, 25:14, 19-30 Acts 17:31 Romans 2:5-16, 2 Timothy 4:1-8 Jude 1:14-15 Revelation 11:18, 20:12-13, 22:12).

(9) The wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever (Matthew 13:24-30, 39-43, 47-50, 25:14, 19-30, Rev 20:15)

(10) The righteous enter the New Jerusalem the New Earth (John 14:1-3, Revelation 21:1-4) where will live forever.
10) is just wrong. The majority of the church is already in the New Jerusalem. It is currently called Paradise. Revelation 7:9-17

9 "After this, I looked; and there before me was a huge crowd, too large for anyone to count, from every nation, tribe, people and language. They were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes and holding palm branches in their hands; 10 and they shouted,
“Victory to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”
11 All the angels stood around the throne, the elders and the four living beings; they fell face down before the throne and worshipped God, saying,
12 “Amen!
“Praise and glory, wisdom and thanks,
honor and power and strength
belong to our God forever and ever!
Amen!”
13 One of the elders asked me, “These people dressed in white robes — who are they, and where are they from?”
14 “Sir,” I answered, “you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who have come out of the Great Persecution. They have washed their robes and made them white with the blood of the Lamb.
15 That is why they are before God’s throne.
“Day and night they serve him in his Temple;
and the One who sits on the throne
will put his Sh’khinah upon them.
16 “They will never again be hungry,
they will never again be thirsty,
the sun will not beat down on them
,
nor will any burning heat.
17 “For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will shepherd them, will lead them
to springs of living water,
and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.


This is already true since the thief on the Cross entered Paradise, that day. Every day and night for the last 1990.5 years. Some even died peacefully in their sleep, but still as much in Christ as those martyred.

This is before time is up in the 7th Trumpet.

9) not effected by the Lord’s Day.

8) so the judgment on the Cross of sin is meaningless? Who are these righteous? You do carry sin into the NHNE, if the GWT is set up in the NHNE. You are going to have to clarify this. The second coming sends the sheep into the millennium alive. The goats go to sheol. That is what Jesus taught in the Gospels. Righteous people are self righteous because of good deeds. They are not part of God's Atonement. They relied on their works, not the Cross. That is why they are judged. Revelation 20:4, John saw thrones set up.

7) again putting sin and sinners into the NHNE. The point about the old being passed away after the GWT removes all of Adam's inheritance first. After the GWT, and after all judgment, then the NHNE.

6) The New Jerusalem comes down after the judgments. You should at least move this lower on the to do list. After the GWT which happens before the NHNE. Probably why the NHNE do not start at the Second Coming like you propose. Your chronology is off.

5) let's say everything is gone. What is the point in bringing sin back at all after this point? There is literally no point to the righteous, unrighteous, dead people, nor the GWT at all. All is eternally gone. That is your climatic end. Nothing happens after, absolutely nothing regarding the former things. Yet you list 6-9 dredging up the old and putting it in the New. Sounds like the religious leaders of Jesus' Day wanting to drag the old covenant into the new covenant long after the old was done away with. All the verses you give do not say what you want them to say.

4) is true, and happens down near 8).

3) so God's process of separating the sheep and goats, wheat and tares is not explained to those going through the process? Why is there a battle or two? Why are there 7 Trumpets, and 7 Thunders if is all happens in a split second? Satan is not exposed for 42 months? The 2 witnesses do not lay dead for 3.5 days. There are no vials of God's wrath. Because blink an eye, and it is over?

In other words Revelation 4 should just say two words: "It's Over" then Revelation 21-22 should actually be chapters 5 and 6?

1) and 2) do not fit in your 4th chapter of Revelation that only says, "It's Over".

What is the point? It's Over describes your dramatic climatic ending without all that other nonsense you claim pre-trib and pre-mill foist onto Christianity. All your verses would corroborate those 2 words in Revelation 4, and your theology would not be threatened by all those nonsensical verses currently in chapters 4-20.

I am not trying to be harsh. All your points are true, just not in the right order. Taking the truth of God's Word and inventing a false narrative makes for great human theology. Many find such theology exciting and not as harsh as the Truth of God's Word.
 
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sovereigngrace

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10) is just wrong. The majority of the church is already in the New Jerusalem. It is currently called Paradise. Revelation 7:9-17

9 "After this, I looked; and there before me was a huge crowd, too large for anyone to count, from every nation, tribe, people and language. They were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes and holding palm branches in their hands; 10 and they shouted,
“Victory to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”
11 All the angels stood around the throne, the elders and the four living beings; they fell face down before the throne and worshipped God, saying,
12 “Amen!
“Praise and glory, wisdom and thanks,
honor and power and strength
belong to our God forever and ever!
Amen!”
13 One of the elders asked me, “These people dressed in white robes — who are they, and where are they from?”
14 “Sir,” I answered, “you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who have come out of the Great Persecution. They have washed their robes and made them white with the blood of the Lamb.
15 That is why they are before God’s throne.
“Day and night they serve him in his Temple;
and the One who sits on the throne
will put his Sh’khinah upon them.
16 “They will never again be hungry,
they will never again be thirsty,
the sun will not beat down on them
,
nor will any burning heat.
17 “For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will shepherd them, will lead them
to springs of living water,
and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.


This is already true since the thief on the Cross entered Paradise, that day. Every day and night for the last 1990.5 years. Some even died peacefully in their sleep, but still as much in Christ as those martyred.

This is before time is up in the 7th Trumpet.

9) not effected by the Lord’s Day.

8) so the judgment on the Cross of sin is meaningless? Who are these righteous? You do carry sin into the NHNE, if the GWT is set up in the NHNE. You are going to have to clarify this. The second coming sends the sheep into the millennium alive. The goats go to sheol. That is what Jesus taught in the Gospels. Righteous people are self righteous because of good deeds. They are not part of God's Atonement. They relied on their works, not the Cross. That is why they are judged. Revelation 20:4, John saw thrones set up.

7) again putting sin and sinners into the NHNE. The point about the old being passed away after the GWT removes all of Adam's inheritance first. After the GWT, and after all judgment, then the NHNE.

6) The New Jerusalem comes down after the judgments. You should at least move this lower on the to do list. After the GWT which happens before the NHNE. Probably why the NHNE do not start at the Second Coming like you propose. Your chronology is off.

5) let's say everything is gone. What is the point in bringing sin back at all after this point? There is literally no point to the righteous, unrighteous, dead people, nor the GWT at all. All is eternally gone. That is your climatic end. Nothing happens after, absolutely nothing regarding the former things. Yet you list 6-9 dredging up the old and putting it in the New. Sounds like the religious leaders of Jesus' Day wanting to drag the old covenant into the new covenant long after the old was done away with. All the verses you give do not say what you want them to say.

4) is true, and happens down near 8).

3) so God's process of separating the sheep and goats, wheat and tares is not explained to those going through the process? Why is there a battle or two? Why are there 7 Trumpets, and 7 Thunders if is all happens in a split second? Satan is not exposed for 42 months? The 2 witnesses do not lay dead for 3.5 days. There are no vials of God's wrath. Because blink an eye, and it is over?

In other words Revelation 4 should just say two words: "It's Over" then Revelation 21-22 should actually be chapters 5 and 6?

1) and 2) do not fit in your 4th chapter of Revelation that only says, "It's Over".

What is the point? It's Over describes your dramatic climatic ending without all that other nonsense you claim pre-trib and pre-mill foist onto Christianity. All your verses would corroborate those 2 words in Revelation 4, and your theology would not be threatened by all those nonsensical verses currently in chapters 4-20.

I am not trying to be harsh. All your points are true, just not in the right order. Taking the truth of God's Word and inventing a false narrative makes for great human theology. Many find such theology exciting and not as harsh as the Truth of God's Word.

Not so. All occur when He comes. I furnished you with water-tight Scripture that you avoided again.
 
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Timtofly

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Not so. All occur when He comes. I furnished you with water-tight Scripture that you avoided again.
I agree it all happens when the Second Coming happens. It is the next 1000 years is all. The Day of the Lord is a certainty.
 
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Timtofly

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No thousand years. Time is over. We are now in eternity.
Your definition of eternity is slightly off. Only God exist where time does not. The NHNE is not eternity. It is just the next reality. If we were in eternity, there would be no change. No time means nothing happens. One would literally be frozen without motion or change.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Your definition of eternity is slightly off. Only God exist where time does not. The NHNE is not eternity. It is just the next reality. If we were in eternity, there would be no change. No time means nothing happens. One would literally be frozen without motion or change.

You are winging it again. Give me Scripture that states this.
 
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You claim time ceases to exist and you do not even know what that would mean?

Please do speak on my behalf. Every time you do, you come out with falsehoods. Sadly, you refuse to apologize or repent. Your continued avoidance of hard Scripture is damning for Premil and reinforces the Amil position. That is because Amil stands on solid Scripture, which you cannot seem to handle. Let us see how many Scriptures you avoid in this post again!

When did “this age” begin?

Scripture continually shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is continually showed to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find itself sandwiched in between these two great events. Simply put: “this age” refers to “time”; “the age to come” or the “hereafter” refers to “eternity.”

Luke 1:70: “he spake by the mouth of his prophets, which have been since the world (or aion or age) began.”

The phrase “since the age began” can have no other meaning than “from the beginning of creation.” It would be wrong to interpret it in any other way.

The skeptical Pharisees doubted the healing of a blind man in John 9:32, saying: Since the world (or aion or age) began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.”

In their disbelief, they were affirming that they have never heard of such a thing ever happening throughout history. The contention of these religious cynics was plainly referring to the whole period of time from the beginning of creation.

Acts 15:18: “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world (or aion or age).”

This is undoubtedly referring back to the beginning of time. The fortune of this world is inextricably tied to the existence of this age.

Ephesians 3:9: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world (or aion or age) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”

This text is telling us that right from the very start, the “fellowship of the mystery” has “been hid in God” from “the beginning of age.” This is simply telling us that this has been the story of man from the start.

Romans 16:25-26: “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world (or aionios) began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.”

Again, we are looking here at the broad span of history, right back to the beginning of time.

Titus 1:2 similarly says: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world (or aionios) began.”

This text tells us that the promise of man’s salvation was purposed in the mind of God before time and age began. It was conceived in eternity!

Biblical truth is normally gleaned by comparing like Scripture with like. It helps to put the divine jigsaw puzzle together in regard to the heart and mind of God. These phrases of “since the age began” or “the beginning of the age” correspond with the similar biblical expression “from the beginning of the creation,” which we find in different places in the New Testament.

Jesus said in Mark 10:6: “from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.”

This text speaks for itself. It tells us that this is the way it has always been! It takes us back to the beginning of time. The expression “the beginning of age,” corresponds with “the beginning of the creation.” These two phrases are synonymous. It is certainly not speaking about the beginning of the Mosaic age.

Jesus taught in Mark 13:19: For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.”

Basically, Christ is telling us that the affliction here will be so intense that it will be unparalleled in the whole of history. The beginning of creation therefore refers to the beginning of this world, or the beginning of time or the beginning of age. These are all synonymous statements.

2 Peter 3:4 records the scoffers in the last days are mocking: “Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”

This reference in the mockers taunt is clearly referring to the full span of human history. It is recording the cynicism of the scoffers be question the reality of our Lord’s future coming. In this, they join many Preterists.

Finally, Jesus introduces Himself to the church of the Laodiceans in Revelation 3:14 by: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”

Christ was the Creator. John 1:3 confirms: “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” Once again: “the beginning” relates to “the creation of God,” which is elsewhere called “the beginning of age.”

All these texts are telling us the same thing: time began with “the beginning of the creation” – which is the commencement of this current age.

Romans 16:25-26: “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began (or chronos aionios sigao), But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.”

The literally meaning here is: “the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret [since the] chronology or time of the ages.” This is telling us that from when time began Romans 16:25-26 adds more meat on the bones. It is declaring that the mystery in view has been concealed since time began. That time goes back to when time was recordable in the book of Genesis.

The New Living Translation reads: “Now all glory to God, who is able to make you strong, just as my Good News says. This message about Jesus Christ has revealed his plan for you Gentiles, a plan kept secret from the beginning of time.

Darby Bible Translation translates it: “Now to him that is able to establish you, according to my glad tidings and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to [the] revelation of [the] mystery, as to which silence has been kept in [the] times of the ages.”

The Young's Literal Translation reads: “And to Him who is able to establish you, according to my good news, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the secret, in the times of the ages having been kept silent.”

Titus 1:2 says: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began (or pro chronos aionios).”

The literally meaning here is: “before chronology or time of the ages.”

This again tells us that there is a starting point at the beginning for time. There will also consequently be an end to time and a beginning of eternity. Scripture shows this to be Christ’s glorious all-consummating return.

Darby Bible Translation translates it: “in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time.”

The English Standard Version reads: “in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.”

The Holman Christian Standard Bible reads: “in the hope of eternal life that God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.”

The Jubilee Bible 2000 reads: “for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages.”

The Young's Literal Translation reads: “upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages.”

The New International Version reads: “in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.”

Basically, before the chronology of the ages, before time came into being, before man ever fell, God promised to bring eternal life to this world.

2 Timothy 1:8-9 similarly says: “Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began (or pro chronos aionios).”

The literally meaning here is: “before chronology or time of the ages.”

No one can doubt the repeated emphasis on the beginning of time. It is clearly taught and easily understood by the unindoctrinated.

Darby Bible Translation translates it: “who has saved us, and has called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to [his] own purpose and grace, which [was] given to us in Christ Jesus before [the] ages of time.”

The English Standard Version reads: “in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.”

The Holman Christian Standard Bible reads: “He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.”

The Jubilee Bible 2000 reads: “who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the ages.

The Young's Literal Translation reads: “who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages.”

The New International Version reads: “He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.”
 
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You claim time ceases to exist and you do not even know what that would mean?

When did/does “this age” finish?

We have seen from various Scripture that “the beginning” of this age kicked in at the beginning of creation. Well, Scripture also equally delineates that the end of this age will occur at the restoration of creation, the time when Jesus returns to make all things new. When man fell, all creation experienced the awful consequences of that tragedy and fell with him. The curse upon man caused the curse to fall upon this earth. The curse upon both is equally lifted simultaneously when Jesus returns.

Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his Coming (parousia). Then cometh the end (or télos), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

The “coming” of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us that “all rule and all authority and power” are finally “put down” or katargeésee or abolished at the “Coming” or parousia of the Lord, which is, as we have established, confirmed in the next sentence as “the end.” The kingdom of God is finally and eternally presented “up,” whereas the kingdom of darkness is finally and eternally “put down.” It is this all-consummating last day that ushers in the end (or completion) of all things.

From a careful study of these expressions you will see that what is referred to as “this age/time” has a defined end, whereas the “the age to come” has none. The reason for this is that the termination of “this age” brings an end to time, whereas the ushering in the “the age to come” brings in the eternal.

To inherit the new earth is actually to be qualified to populate it. Only the new creation can inherit the new creation. The new glorified incorrupt earth is not for mortals. It is not for the wicked. It is for the incorupt redeemed. It is for the glorified saints.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8 describes how the Church is waiting for the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end (or telos), that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The coming of the Lord is again associated with “the end.” The end of the age is manifestly the end! In this, we see a glorious promise that Christ shall “confirm” or establish or secure us “unto the end.” This promise was never intended to relate to, or expire at, AD70. This is a promise that relates to our earthly sojourn in this sinful world in life and time.

In Matthew 24, Jerusalem was on the cusp of experiencing utter destruction, including the removal of their temple (the center of their religious worship). Moreover, that loss would remain in place from its demolition right up until the second coming of the Lord. The disciples asked two questions in Matthew 24 as they stood in front of the still-standing temple complex.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (or sunteleías meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (aion)?”

The word telos, used in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 and 15:24, is also found in the above passage being coupled to, and prefixed with, the popular Greek word sun (Strong’s 4862) – denoting union and togetherness. The word carries the overall meaning of the entire end.

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming. Notwithstanding, there is much detail about the days that precede His return.

Premils and Preterists do not believe that “the end” refers to the actual end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It refers to the completion. It is the termination point of a thing.

When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then theologians universally agree it is talking about “the beginning” of time/this age/creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this, many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason probably is because it cuts across a lot of end-time theology they have been taught. However, both should be treated similarly.

Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

Jesus response to His disciples in Matthew 24:6 and 13-14 is notable: “ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end (or télos) is not yet ... But he that shall endure unto the end (or télos), the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end (or télos) come.”

“The end of the age” is normally described as “the end.” Those that endure to the end are promised a glorious reward. The true child of God will persevere to the end because that is his nature. The false professor will not.

If we are to be consistent, if we are to take a word literally, plainly and straightforwardly in its context, then we should take the word “end” to mean the end. 1 Peter 4:7 predicts “the end of all things is at hand.” This is a pretty substantive, unambiguous and climactic statement. Few, if any, would argue that this was not talking about the second coming. But few stop to consider the enormity and finality of this Coming.

Jesus continues His response to the disciples’ question reference His coming in Matthew 24:35-44: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

The removal of the current heaven and earth is here connected to the coming of the Lord. After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approachingis coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares (in Matthew 13:24-30), The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed among the wheat, and went his way …Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Verses 39-43 continues, the harvest is the end of the world (or aion or age); and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (or aion or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Jesus locates “the harvest” of both the wicked and the righteous at “the end of the aion or age.” We see that in this age the good and the bad grow together. But the age to come is not so. It is not open to the wicked. This agrees with the statement of Christ in Luke 20:34-36 which shows that one has to be qualified to inherit the age to come and the new earth: one has to be “accounted worthy to obtain that aion or age. The reason is: it is only for believers. This passage shows that it is in this age that “the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” This is talking about the perfect incorruptible glorified state. The wicked on the other hand are “cast … into a furnace of fire” where “there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Here we see the final separation of the righteous and the wicked including the burning of those who practice lawlessness, and reward of those who belonged to Christ. In this context, “the end of the age” obviously refers to Christ’s glorious second coming. It cannot refer to the destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterists contend, since there was no separation of the righteous from the wicked, nor no final judgment for mankind then.

The same truth is also revealed by Christ in Matthew 13:47-50, in the parable of the net: “the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world (or aion or age): the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The bringing in of the “net” here relates to the angels gathering the righteous and the wicked together for judgment. This assignment is notably not executed until the net “was full.” We can see here that the wicked and righteous are drawn in at the same time. The Christ-rejecter is judged, sentenced and eternally separated from the elect of God at “the end of the age.” The outcome for the wicked drawn in by God’s great net in this parable is horrendous as they are pictured “wailing (klauthmos) and gnashing of teeth” or as it is rendered in the parable of the talents: “weeping (klauthmos) and gnashing of teeth.” This is the time of final judgment for the rebel against God.
 
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You claim time ceases to exist and you do not even know what that would mean?

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then describes a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious Second Coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

It is not just that Scripture depicts the second coming as “the end of the age/world” (as many Scriptures state), it is that it labels it as “the last day” or simply “the end.” The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes. Martha had a full awareness of that truth in the New Testament, when speaking of her brother Lazarus to Christ, in John 11:23-24, “Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, Christ taught in complete agreement in John 6:39.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:39: “every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:54: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood (speaking spiritually and figuratively), hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Whilst, we are plainly in the last days there is an actual day coming which will conclude this scene of time and will see the final operation of God’s judgment upon sin, Satan and the wicked. That individual day is frequently known as “the last day.”

The sum total of God’s elect will be gloriously raised at this concluding final day. The resurrection of the righteous like that of the wicked is therefore for the purpose of judgment and happens on that great last or final day of salvation. That is how Paul could say with all assurance in 2 Timothy 4:8, “there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

Moreover, this concluding last day is not just a day of resurrection and judgment for the righteous but also for the wicked. This is confirmed by Christ in John 12:48, when He said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Here the wicked are judged on the same day that the righteous are judged, namely, the “last day” of the “last days.” The term “the last day” is quoted different times in the New Testament without any form (or undoubted requirement) of qualification or any hint that there are two separate last days, as the Premillennialist would try and argue. When Christ or any other person referred to that final day in the New Testament it was always constantly in the context of its all-consummating nature, each time referring to the matter of the resurrection/judgment of both the wicked and the righteous. The references expressly refer to the last day of this age (the Gospel age) – the day that ushers in the new heaven and the new earth. There are absolutely no grounds for believing that the last day refers to a future millennium, and therefore lasts for a literal 1,000 years. Such a suggestion only emanates out of the Premillennialist camp in order to support their flawed view of Revelation 20.

Significantly, in all the above references, the wording in the original for “last day” is always identical – eschatee heemara. The Greek word eschatee used here comes from the root word eschatos, from where we get our word English eschatology, and simply means end, last, farthest or final. Eschatology is therefore the study of, or teaching on, end times or final or last things. It covers the period of redemptive history.

We can therefore safely assume from its meaning that the last day alluded to in these references relates to the end or final day of this age, the day when all the purposes of God for man in this life are finally concluded and judged. It is the last or final day when the old heavens and the old earth will finally pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. It is an all-consummating day in which every man will give finally give account for his life.

Nowhere in any of Christ’s statements on the resurrection, the judgment, the last day, and the does He make any allowance for, or the slightest allusion to, a 1000 years gap separating His dealings with, and His judgment of, the sheep and the goats.

Revelation 10:1-3: “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.”

The symbolism and authority surrounding this great heavenly angel proves beyond a doubt that it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ and a picture of His glorious Second Coming. We will the symbolism shortly.

Revelation 10:5-7 says of the Second Advent and the concluding last trumpet, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

There is clearly a major dilemma here for you those who take Revelation to be a literal chronological unfolding of last day events. They must surely concede, if they are going to be consistent with their view that everything after Revelation 11 (which also makes reference to the seventh trumpet) is in the realm of eternity and the after-life. After all Revelation 10 plainly records that with this particular event “there should be time no longer.” For those who would lightly dismiss this important narrative as anything other than a magnificent picture of the Lord Jesus Christ and His glorious second coming, they do foolishly ignore the great wealth of explicit and consistent end-time teaching on this subject and divorce the undoubted harmony of this chapter from the rest of New Testament prophetic teaching.

This is the end of the old temporal sin-cursed order and the introduction of the new eternal glorified order. Also, the undoubted finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump – the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” not for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.” Those who reject such evidence do so (in the main) in order to support the Preterist, Pretribulationist or Historist positions.

The King James Version interprets the passage correctly and in context: chronos ouketi estai – literally meaning: Time – no longer – there shall be’!!!

The whole import and wording of the remainder of the passage perfectly supports the King James Version rendering and confirms the all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, which says, “when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be etelesthee (or) finished.” It should be noted that the word etelesthee is a very strong all-consummating word that is rightly translated ‘finished’ in this reading and is consistently interpreted: completed, concluded, expired and accomplished.

Revelation 11:15: “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

Verse 18 then reveals how the Second Advent ushers in the general judgment, saying, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest (1) give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest (2) destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

This is the end of the old temporal sin-cursed order and the introduction of the new eternal glorified order. Also, the undoubted finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump – the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” not for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.” Those who reject such evidence do so (in the main) in order to support the Pretribulationist doctrine.

At the last trumpet, Christ will “reward” the saints and “destroy” the wicked. It is “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” One wonders how anyone could not see a general resurrection of the dead here in order to enable a general judgment.
 
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Please do speak on my behalf. Every time you do, you come out with falsehoods. Sadly, you refuse to apologize or repent. Your continued avoidance of hard Scripture is damning for Premil and reinforces the Amil position. That is because Amil stands on solid Scripture, which you cannot seem to handle. Let us see how many Scriptures you avoid in this post again!

When did “this age” begin?

Scripture continually shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is continually showed to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find itself sandwiched in between these two great events. Simply put: “this age” refers to “time”; “the age to come” or the “hereafter” refers to “eternity.”

Luke 1:70: “he spake by the mouth of his prophets, which have been since the world (or aion or age) began.”

The phrase “since the age began” can have no other meaning than “from the beginning of creation.” It would be wrong to interpret it in any other way.

The skeptical Pharisees doubted the healing of a blind man in John 9:32, saying: Since the world (or aion or age) began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.”

In their disbelief, they were affirming that they have never heard of such a thing ever happening throughout history. The contention of these religious cynics was plainly referring to the whole period of time from the beginning of creation.

Acts 15:18: “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world (or aion or age).”

This is undoubtedly referring back to the beginning of time. The fortune of this world is inextricably tied to the existence of this age.

Ephesians 3:9: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world (or aion or age) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”

This text is telling us that right from the very start, the “fellowship of the mystery” has “been hid in God” from “the beginning of age.” This is simply telling us that this has been the story of man from the start.

Romans 16:25-26: “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world (or aionios) began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.”

Again, we are looking here at the broad span of history, right back to the beginning of time.

Titus 1:2 similarly says: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world (or aionios) began.”

This text tells us that the promise of man’s salvation was purposed in the mind of God before time and age began. It was conceived in eternity!

Biblical truth is normally gleaned by comparing like Scripture with like. It helps to put the divine jigsaw puzzle together in regard to the heart and mind of God. These phrases of “since the age began” or “the beginning of the age” correspond with the similar biblical expression “from the beginning of the creation,” which we find in different places in the New Testament.

Jesus said in Mark 10:6: “from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.”

This text speaks for itself. It tells us that this is the way it has always been! It takes us back to the beginning of time. The expression “the beginning of age,” corresponds with “the beginning of the creation.” These two phrases are synonymous. It is certainly not speaking about the beginning of the Mosaic age.

Jesus taught in Mark 13:19: For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.”

Basically, Christ is telling us that the affliction here will be so intense that it will be unparalleled in the whole of history. The beginning of creation therefore refers to the beginning of this world, or the beginning of time or the beginning of age. These are all synonymous statements.

2 Peter 3:4 records the scoffers in the last days are mocking: “Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”

This reference in the mockers taunt is clearly referring to the full span of human history. It is recording the cynicism of the scoffers be question the reality of our Lord’s future coming. In this, they join many Preterists.

Finally, Jesus introduces Himself to the church of the Laodiceans in Revelation 3:14 by: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”

Christ was the Creator. John 1:3 confirms: “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” Once again: “the beginning” relates to “the creation of God,” which is elsewhere called “the beginning of age.”

All these texts are telling us the same thing: time began with “the beginning of the creation” – which is the commencement of this current age.

Romans 16:25-26: “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began (or chronos aionios sigao), But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.”

The literally meaning here is: “the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret [since the] chronology or time of the ages.” This is telling us that from when time began Romans 16:25-26 adds more meat on the bones. It is declaring that the mystery in view has been concealed since time began. That time goes back to when time was recordable in the book of Genesis.

The New Living Translation reads: “Now all glory to God, who is able to make you strong, just as my Good News says. This message about Jesus Christ has revealed his plan for you Gentiles, a plan kept secret from the beginning of time.

Darby Bible Translation translates it: “Now to him that is able to establish you, according to my glad tidings and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to [the] revelation of [the] mystery, as to which silence has been kept in [the] times of the ages.”

The Young's Literal Translation reads: “And to Him who is able to establish you, according to my good news, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the secret, in the times of the ages having been kept silent.”

Titus 1:2 says: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began (or pro chronos aionios).”

The literally meaning here is: “before chronology or time of the ages.”

This again tells us that there is a starting point at the beginning for time. There will also consequently be an end to time and a beginning of eternity. Scripture shows this to be Christ’s glorious all-consummating return.

Darby Bible Translation translates it: “in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time.”

The English Standard Version reads: “in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.”

The Holman Christian Standard Bible reads: “in the hope of eternal life that God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.”

The Jubilee Bible 2000 reads: “for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages.”

The Young's Literal Translation reads: “upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages.”

The New International Version reads: “in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.”

Basically, before the chronology of the ages, before time came into being, before man ever fell, God promised to bring eternal life to this world.

2 Timothy 1:8-9 similarly says: “Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began (or pro chronos aionios).”

The literally meaning here is: “before chronology or time of the ages.”

No one can doubt the repeated emphasis on the beginning of time. It is clearly taught and easily understood by the unindoctrinated.

Darby Bible Translation translates it: “who has saved us, and has called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to [his] own purpose and grace, which [was] given to us in Christ Jesus before [the] ages of time.”

The English Standard Version reads: “in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.”

The Holman Christian Standard Bible reads: “He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.”

The Jubilee Bible 2000 reads: “who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the ages.

The Young's Literal Translation reads: “who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages.”

The New International Version reads: “He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.”
Yes time started at creation. Still ages plural exist in this time. Either that or you contradict those verses that claim plural ages.
 
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