Daniel 2:44 The Kingdom That Breaks All Other Kingdoms

Davy said:

Most often Futurism is applied with man's theory of a pre-trib rapture, which isn't Biblical. That's how I mean Futurism. It doesn't mean there's no Bible prophecy still yet future. I use the term to apply to men's doctrines, not God's.

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

This is imposing a lot onto the text that isn't there.

Regarding the abomination of desolation:

Quoting Adam Maarschalk's page:
From Scripture it seems possible that the holy place mentioned by Jesus was not the temple, but Jerusalem, since the entire city was considered holy (Daniel 9:24, Nehemiah 11:1, Matthew 4:5, Matthew 27:53). In Daniel’s day the temple was holy, but Jesus had just pronounced it desolate (Matthew 23:38). This was the viewpoint of Chrysostom, who wrote, “For this it seems to me that the abomination of desolation means the army by which the holy city of Jerusalem was made desolate” (recorded in The Ante-Nicene Fathers). Thomas Newton, in his dissertation titled “The Prophecy of Matthew 24” written in 1753, also took this position (Todd Dennis [12], 2009):

Whatever difficulty there is in these words [in Matthew 24:15-16], it may be cleared up by the parallel place in St. Luke, ‘And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains,’-xxi – 20, 21. So that ‘the abomination of desolation’ is the Roman army, and ‘the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place’ is the Roman army besieging Jerusalem. This, saith our Saviour, is ‘the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,’ in the ninth and eleventh chapters; and so let every one who readeth those prophecies, understand them. The Roman army is called ‘the abomination,’ for its ensigns and images, which were so to the Jews.

Other commentators roughly contemporary to Thomas Newton held to the same view, i.e. that these words of Jesus were fulfilled in 67-70 AD, also allowing that “the holy place” was not the inner temple but Jerusalem itself. These included John Wesley (1754), Adam Clarke (1837), C. H. (Charles) Spurgeon (1868), and Philip Schaff (1877). For many of these commentators, it was enough of an abomination that the Romans came into Jerusalem bearing standards, emblems, and banners with images of their gods and proclamations of the deity of their emperor.[1] B.H. Carroll (1915), in his well-known work, “An Introduction of the English Bible,” related an interesting incident which took place during the reign of Tiberius (14-37 AD). This incident sheds light on what was constituted as such an abomination at this time:

Pilate, at that time Roman Procurator, sent from Caesarea, the seaport of that country on the Mediterranean Sea, a legion of Roman soldiers and had them secretly introduced into the city and sheltered in the tower of Antonio overlooking the Temple, and these soldiers brought with them their ensigns. The Roman sign was a straight staff, capped with a metallic eagle, and right under the eagle was a graven image of Caesar. Caesar claimed to be divine. Caesar exacted divine worship, and every evening when those standards were placed, the Roman legion got down and worshiped the image of Caesar thereof, and every morning at the roll call a part of the parade was for the whole legion to prostrate themselves before that graven image and worship it. The Jews were so horrified when they saw that image and the consequent worship, they went to Pilate, who was at that time living in Caesarea, and prostrated themselves before him and said, ‘Kill us, if you will, but take that abomination of desolation out of our Holy City and from the neighborhood of our holy temple’ (pp. 263-264).
​

"PP14: Abomination of Desolation | Pursuing Truth" PP14: Abomination of Desolation

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

Just an observation and a rhetorical question. I wonder why Satan is assigned so much power in the futurist's paradigm.

Click to expand...

Douggg said:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Anyone who comments on the abomination of desolation, and does not start with v14 is clueless.

Click to expand...

Douggg said:

You haven't figured out who has caused all the trouble in God's creation, both in heaven and upon the earth?

Every person in heaven and earth should get on their knees and thank God over and over because....

Ezekiel 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Click to expand...

Douggg said:

You haven't figured out who has caused all the trouble in God's creation, both in heaven and upon the earth?

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

This is imposing a lot onto the text that isn't there.

Regarding the abomination of desolation:

Quoting Adam Maarschalk's page:
From Scripture it seems possible that the holy place mentioned by Jesus was not the temple, but Jerusalem, since the entire city was considered holy (Daniel 9:24, Nehemiah 11:1, Matthew 4:5, Matthew 27:53). In Daniel’s day the temple was holy, but Jesus had just pronounced it desolate (Matthew 23:38). This was the viewpoint of Chrysostom, who wrote, “For this it seems to me that the abomination of desolation means the army by which the holy city of Jerusalem was made desolate” (recorded in The Ante-Nicene Fathers). Thomas Newton, in his dissertation titled “The Prophecy of Matthew 24” written in 1753, also took this position (Todd Dennis [12], 2009):

Whatever difficulty there is in these words [in Matthew 24:15-16], it may be cleared up by the parallel place in St. Luke, ‘And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains,’-xxi – 20, 21. So that ‘the abomination of desolation’ is the Roman army, and ‘the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place’ is the Roman army besieging Jerusalem. This, saith our Saviour, is ‘the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,’ in the ninth and eleventh chapters; and so let every one who readeth those prophecies, understand them. The Roman army is called ‘the abomination,’ for its ensigns and images, which were so to the Jews.

Other commentators roughly contemporary to Thomas Newton held to the same view, i.e. that these words of Jesus were fulfilled in 67-70 AD, also allowing that “the holy place” was not the inner temple but Jerusalem itself. These included John Wesley (1754), Adam Clarke (1837), C. H. (Charles) Spurgeon (1868), and Philip Schaff (1877). For many of these commentators, it was enough of an abomination that the Romans came into Jerusalem bearing standards, emblems, and banners with images of their gods and proclamations of the deity of their emperor.[1] B.H. Carroll (1915), in his well-known work, “An Introduction of the English Bible,” related an interesting incident which took place during the reign of Tiberius (14-37 AD). This incident sheds light on what was constituted as such an abomination at this time:

Pilate, at that time Roman Procurator, sent from Caesarea, the seaport of that country on the Mediterranean Sea, a legion of Roman soldiers and had them secretly introduced into the city and sheltered in the tower of Antonio overlooking the Temple, and these soldiers brought with them their ensigns. The Roman sign was a straight staff, capped with a metallic eagle, and right under the eagle was a graven image of Caesar. Caesar claimed to be divine. Caesar exacted divine worship, and every evening when those standards were placed, the Roman legion got down and worshiped the image of Caesar thereof, and every morning at the roll call a part of the parade was for the whole legion to prostrate themselves before that graven image and worship it. The Jews were so horrified when they saw that image and the consequent worship, they went to Pilate, who was at that time living in Caesarea, and prostrated themselves before him and said, ‘Kill us, if you will, but take that abomination of desolation out of our Holy City and from the neighborhood of our holy temple’ (pp. 263-264).
​

"PP14: Abomination of Desolation | Pursuing Truth" PP14: Abomination of Desolation

Click to expand...

grafted branch said:

If they waited until the armies were actually standing in Jerusalem I would think it would have been too late to escape. Do you know if any people escaped after the armies set foot in Jerusalem? Or is there another way of looking at this that I’m missing?

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

Paul announced that the Gospel had been preached all throughout the (then known) world in his day (and then the end did come -the end of the Mosaic Covenant....the Mt Sinai religious system):

Colossians 1:5-6
the faith and love proceeding from the hope stored up for you in heaven, of which you have already heard in the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth​

Colossians 1:23
If indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature (e) under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.​

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

Notice the last line?

My point was that God is the only omnipotent and loving power.....so why so much credit for the enemy? That's a rhetorical question, really. Christ is reigning on His throne already (as those of us that aren't futurists believe).

Believe me.....I'm definitely grateful to God for what He hath done.

Click to expand...

jgr said:

Colossians 2
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

You haven't figured out what happened to the troublemakers?

Click to expand...

Douggg said:

As we know nations like the United States did not exist at time. The whole world is all around the world.

Click to expand...

The abomination of desolation in Daniel 12 is time of the end.

Click to expand...

Douggg said:

You haven't figured out Ezekiel 28:16-19? No, you haven't.

The problem is you guys want to ignore the reality of the times we are living in.

But you are not going to be able to ignore, deny, much longer.

Click to expand...

jgr said:

He is our Reality, in these times and in all times.

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

Agreed. The time of the end of the Mosaic Covenant.

Click to expand...

Douggg said:

If Jesus is your reality, then why won't you listen to what he said....

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

The abomination of desolation takes place at the time of the end. Is also in Daniel 12.

What you go by is not what Jesus said, but what commentators of the covenant theology group think coming out of England say.

The charade of partial preterism, covenant theology movement, new covenant theology movement, idealism, is going to come to an abrupt end shortly. Some of the doctrines and traditions of the RCC as well. Judaism and its rejection of Jesus and rejection of the gospel of Salvation, all coming to an end shortly.

Click to expand...

mkgal1 said:

Paul announced that the Gospel had been preached all throughout the (then known) world in his day (and then the end did come -the end of the Mosaic Covenant....the Mt Sinai religious system):

Colossians 1:5-6
the faith and love proceeding from the hope stored up for you in heaven, of which you have already heard in the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth​

Colossians 1:23
If indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature (e) under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.​

Click to expand...

Davy said:

The context of Mark 13:10 with The Gospel being published among all nations is pointing to those saints delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ by The Holy Spirit. The Greek word for "publish" means 'to herald', like a town crier on the town square. Notice the context flow of the verse prior and after...

Mark 13:9-11
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV

So that idea is about more than simply putting ink to paper.

Click to expand...

jgr said:

Mark 13 Greek

Verse 10

2784 [e]
kērychthēnai
κηρυχθῆναι
to proclaim
V-ANP

Same root word as Colossians 1:23.

Click to expand...

jgr said:

The charade of modernist dispensational futurism, its denial and rejection of the full and complete work of Christ at Calvary, its worship of the antichrist of Christ-rejecting Israel, and its fallacy of a church escaping tribulations endured by all historical defenders of the true faith; will come to an end as the true Church returns to the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints (Jude 3).

Click to expand...