Christian view of "sensuality" and pleasure

Radagast

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As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

Christianity does not teach that pleasure, eating, sex, etc. are inherently sinful.

They can become sinful if they are done in ways that transgresses God's commands (e.g. adultery is a sin) or if they are given greater importance than they should have (e.g. attending a music concert would be wrong if it made me skip church, or if it wasted money I should be spending on something more important).

Jesus also even said in Matthew 22:30 (there was also another iteration elsewhere in the bible) that "they will neither marry, nor be given in marriage..." so it seems that Jesus said we won't be married or have a similar kind of intimacy with the opposite sex of any kind at all in Heaven.

The idea being that Heaven will have greater pleasures.
 
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Jonathan Dahlin

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A lot of Christians have no idea what real life is about. God created us with certain desires and sex was introduced before mankind rebelled. It is not inherently evil. A certain denomination has been making this false claim for centuries. Eating is not evil, sex is not evil, even a glass of wine at dinner is *gasp* OK by God. Unless you are a Baptist.

It only becomes evil when misused. Sleeping around, adultery, overeating, drunkenness are evils.

Paul's recommendation not to marry was because of the persecution happening at the time. Most of the Apostles were married and marriage was normal. Paul even told married couples to ensure that they had regular sex. That does not sound like an anti-sex attitude to me.

Yes, in heaven there will be no marriages. And you won't care, I can assure you of that.
The last sentence doesn't help. Because the passion is so strong one can't feel the enjoyment of heaven without sex, because they realize that something they strongly desire won't be in heaven as they picture it.
When we are suffering in this world, we can think about how wonderful heaven will be, except when we are suffering with sexual pain. If only there was romance and sex in heaven, a person suffering from missing out would think about it in heaven.
Why does God give us a desire for something which won't be in heaven? If there's no sex in heaven, why does God give a desire for sex on this Earth? Shouldn't God only give desires for things that will be in heaven?
Why doesn't God say "Blessed are you who are single now and really want to get married and have sex, for you will have the finest spouse and the best romance."

What about intermediate compensation time? Or alternate childhood?

You know, that's not the only issue. The distribution of genes and the races (or rather, populations)... how do I explain this? Not balanced. Also, some genes that existed before the flood are extinct and won't pass on to the Millenium, I'm afraid. Those extinct genes were in Adam and Eve and intended to spread and survive.
Could God bend time? Could I live an alternate perfect past and relive my childhood, affected by the works I did in the first past?

Aww, if only Adam and Eve hadn't sinned, there would be perfect marriage and romance and sex, untainted by sin.

Is there a limit as to what God can restore?

In heaven, what's no longer needed for biological purposes may be expected to survive for splendor (C.S. Lewis, Miracles).
Can't sex, which was for the purpose of procreation, survive in heaven just for pleasure?

Where does the Bible specifically say that sex was desinged for marriage? Give the most relevant verse. The Greek word for fornication is inappropriate contenteia. It means more than premarital or extramarital sex. But why can't things be different in heaven? What's so wrong with sexual pleasure and romantic bliss without marriage? What does God hate about it? Is it written in our conscience as part of natural law? I'd be surprised if it is, because I would expect that we'd fully agree with the law. How is sexual pleasure without marriage, like murder, theft, and adultery? How can it be sin if it's victimless?

Genesis 2 and 3 and Matthew 22:30 all combine to make something unpleasant.
 
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Aussie Pete

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The last sentence doesn't help. Because the passion is so strong one can't feel the enjoyment of heaven without sex, because they realize that something they strongly desire won't be in heaven as they picture it.
When we are suffering in this world, we can think about how wonderful heaven will be, except when we are suffering with sexual pain. If only there was romance and sex in heaven, a person suffering from missing out would think about it in heaven.
Why does God give us a desire for something which won't be in heaven? If there's no sex in heaven, why does God give a desire for sex on this Earth? Shouldn't God only give desires for things that will be in heaven?
Why doesn't God say "Blessed are you who are single now and really want to get married and have sex, for you will have the finest spouse and the best romance."

What about intermediate compensation time? Or alternate childhood?

You know, that's not the only issue. The distribution of genes and the races (or rather, populations)... how do I explain this? Not balanced. Also, some genes that existed before the flood are extinct and won't pass on to the Millenium, I'm afraid. Those extinct genes were in Adam and Eve and intended to spread and survive.
Could God bend time? Could I live an alternate perfect past and relive my childhood, affected by the works I did in the first past?

Aww, if only Adam and Eve hadn't sinned, there would be perfect marriage and romance and sex, untainted by sin.

Is there a limit as to what God can restore?

In heaven, what's no longer needed for biological purposes may be expected to survive for splendor (C.S. Lewis, Miracles).
Can't sex, which was for the purpose of procreation, survive in heaven just for pleasure?

Where does the Bible specifically say that sex was desinged for marriage? Give the most relevant verse. The Greek word for fornication is inappropriate contenteia. It means more than premarital or extramarital sex. But why can't things be different in heaven? What's so wrong with sexual pleasure and romantic bliss without marriage? What does God hate about it? Is it written in our conscience as part of natural law? I'd be surprised if it is, because I would expect that we'd fully agree with the law. How is sexual pleasure without marriage, like murder, theft, and adultery? How can it be sin if it's victimless?

Genesis 2 and 3 and Matthew 22:30 all combine to make something unpleasant.

"For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind." Isaiah 65:7

The pleasures and pains of this life will be forgotten. The new will be infinitely better.

Your view on sex is wrong. Outside of a marriage relationship, it is fraught with problems. Men become harder in heart the more they fornicate. Women become conquests to be used and despised. A moment of carelessness can bring an unwanted child. What then? The standard response is abortion. So the woman has that on her conscience. If she keeps the child, she is doomed to a lifetime of poverty. Don't forget the terrible diseases that can be spread.

I know about male culture. I was in the Navy (military) for 8-1/2 years. There is constant complaining from women who chose to break into that culture. They are stupid. They expect that human nature will change overnight. What happened in reality was that those women were targeted by the "studs", seduced and paraded as trophies. And they put themselves in that position. No, sex is way more than for pleasure and procreation. I suggest that you look up Mark Gungor on relationships. He has a unique style and great insight into relationships.
 
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chilehed

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As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff.
It warns against inordinate desire for those things; all of them are inherently good, the problem is that we misuse and abuse them. Christianity holds that there's nothing more holy and chaste than a husband and wife having a wildly passionate roll in the hay; just remember that it's only a dim analogy of the intense intimacy that awaits us in heaven.

I suggest a study of "The Theology of the Body", by Pope St. John Paul II.

I also became more disillusioned because I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.
I think it's abusive to teach such nonsense to young people. Folks have been thinking that their generation would be the last for two millennia, and all of them have been wrong. You quite simply have no reasonable basis on which to think that, and it's by far a better bet to think that we'll all be dead long before that happens.

We'd all be a lot better off if we stopped bothering ourselves about the end times and focused on what God has set before us today. He's perfectly capable of handling the future without our help, so stop trying to peek around the corner - it'll just drive you batty.
 
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Jonathan Dahlin

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"For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind." Isaiah 65:7

The pleasures and pains of this life will be forgotten. The new will be infinitely better.

Your view on sex is wrong. Outside of a marriage relationship, it is fraught with problems. Men become harder in heart the more they fornicate. Women become conquests to be used and despised. A moment of carelessness can bring an unwanted child. What then? The standard response is abortion. So the woman has that on her conscience. If she keeps the child, she is doomed to a lifetime of poverty. Don't forget the terrible diseases that can be spread.

I know about male culture. I was in the Navy (military) for 8-1/2 years. There is constant complaining from women who chose to break into that culture. They are stupid. They expect that human nature will change overnight. What happened in reality was that those women were targeted by the "studs", seduced and paraded as trophies. And they put themselves in that position. No, sex is way more than for pleasure and procreation. I suggest that you look up Mark Gungor on relationships. He has a unique style and great insight into relationships.
What was I thinking?
What if it wasn't for the unwanted pregnancies that abortion has been used to deal with? What if it wasn't for sexually transmitted diseases? Because there are no disease in heaven. Then what would be wrong with sexual pleasure without marriage? I'm not talking about sexual INTERCOURSE without marriage, but sexual PLEASURE. What if men's hearts didn't get hardened by fornication?
Maybe if God allowed sex outside of marriage, it would disincentivize people from getting married. But sex without marriage and children would disincentivize people from having children and propogating the race? Then is it a sin to get married and have sex but not have children?
But there's no marriage in heaven that sexual pleasure without marriage would disincentivize people from getting married. No marriage to disincentivize people from.
What about casual romance? That's not the same as casual sex. What would be wrong with casual romance in heaven like in Hollywood?
You know what, it just occurred to me that cheating spouse is a metaphor of rejecting God.
No sex or romantic intimacy in heaven? Then God is like Vaal from Star Trek episode The Apple. Vaal forbids love and marriage. But God is not ravenous like Vaal. That's a difference. It's just that "no marriage or sex in heaven" is the respect that God is like Vaal from Star Trek who forbids love and marriage. So Heaven is like Gamma Tranguli VI in that respect. The Apple (episode)
 
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Aussie Pete

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What was I thinking?
What if it wasn't for the unwanted pregnancies that abortion has been used to deal with? What if it wasn't for sexually transmitted diseases? Because there are no disease in heaven. Then what would be wrong with sexual pleasure without marriage? I'm not talking about sexual INTERCOURSE without marriage, but sexual PLEASURE. What if men's hearts didn't get hardened by fornication?
Maybe if God allowed sex outside of marriage, it would disincentivize people from getting married. But sex without marriage and children would disincentivize people from having children and propogating the race? Then is it a sin to get married and have sex but not have children?
But there's no marriage in heaven that sexual pleasure without marriage would disincentivize people from getting married. No marriage to disincentivize people from.
What about casual romance? That's not the same as casual sex. What would be wrong with casual romance in heaven like in Hollywood?
You know what, it just occurred to me that cheating spouse is a metaphor of rejecting God.
No sex or romantic intimacy in heaven? Then God is like Vaal from Star Trek episode The Apple. Vaal forbids love and marriage. But God is not ravenous like Vaal. That's a difference. It's just that "no marriage or sex in heaven" is the respect that God is like Vaal from Star Trek who forbids love and marriage. So Heaven is like Gamma Tranguli VI in that respect. The Apple (episode)
What ifs are not reality. These days, having children is a choice in Western culture. Adultery is a common metaphor for rejecting God and chasing idols. David, who had several wives, had this to say:

You have made known to me the path of life; You will fill me with joy in Your presence, with eternal pleasures at Your right hand. Psalm 16:11

God's pleasures far outweigh anything humans can experience without Him.
 
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VCR-2000

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Christianity does not teach that pleasure, eating, sex, etc. are inherently sinful.

They can become sinful if they are done in ways that transgresses God's commands (e.g. adultery is a sin) or if they are given greater importance than they should have (e.g. attending a music concert would be wrong if it made me skip church, or if it wasted money I should be spending on something more important).



The idea being that Heaven will have greater pleasures.

Apologize for the severe lateness, but even if Heaven is said to have greater pleasures, it doesn't take away from my wanting something that is otherwise denied or inaccessible to me for whatever reason.
 
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VCR-2000

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"For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind." Isaiah 65:7

The pleasures and pains of this life will be forgotten. The new will be infinitely better.

Your view on sex is wrong. Outside of a marriage relationship, it is fraught with problems. Men become harder in heart the more they fornicate. Women become conquests to be used and despised. A moment of carelessness can bring an unwanted child. What then? The standard response is abortion. So the woman has that on her conscience. If she keeps the child, she is doomed to a lifetime of poverty. Don't forget the terrible diseases that can be spread.

I know about male culture. I was in the Navy (military) for 8-1/2 years. There is constant complaining from women who chose to break into that culture. They are stupid. They expect that human nature will change overnight. What happened in reality was that those women were targeted by the "studs", seduced and paraded as trophies. And they put themselves in that position. No, sex is way more than for pleasure and procreation. I suggest that you look up Mark Gungor on relationships. He has a unique style and great insight into relationships.

Do you believe God thinks male culture is inferior or should be judged on a different standard to female culture?
 
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Aussie Pete

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Do you believe God thinks male culture is inferior or should be judged on a different standard to female culture?
All human culture is condemned by God. God took a rib from Adam and formed Eve. The two become one flesh in marriage. Eve was intended to be Adam's helper, not his boss or his slave. The whole of humanity is under God's judgement because mankind is in a state of rebellion. It's getting worse.

God formed the church to bring the downfall of the world system. The head of the Church is Christ. The church should be bringing conviction of sin on the worldly. They should be a shining example of how to live a life pleasing to God. They should be destroying everything that raises itself up against the knowledge of God. In spite of the problems in the church, victory over the world is certain.

No, male culture is not inherently worse than female. What is different is that men are inclined to be much more aggressive and violent in their responses than women in the same situation. This is beginning to even out. Some men are being turned into effeminate wimps and women are starting to throw their weight around. (Some have a great deal of weight to throw as well). God is not pleased with that societal change either.
 
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Jonathan Dahlin

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All human culture is condemned by God. God took a rib from Adam and formed Eve. The two become one flesh in marriage. Eve was intended to be Adam's helper, not his boss or his slave. The whole of humanity is under God's judgement because mankind is in a state of rebellion. It's getting worse.

God formed the church to bring the downfall of the world system. The head of the Church is Christ. The church should be bringing conviction of sin on the worldly. They should be a shining example of how to live a life pleasing to God. They should be destroying everything that raises itself up against the knowledge of God. In spite of the problems in the church, victory over the world is certain.

No, male culture is not inherently worse than female. What is different is that men are inclined to be much more aggressive and violent in their responses than women in the same situation. This is beginning to even out. Some men are being turned into effeminate wimps and women are starting to throw their weight around. (Some have a great deal of weight to throw as well). God is not pleased with that societal change either.
Why would you talk about the navy when talking about fornication, and sexual pleasure without marriage?
Why can't things be different in heaven?
Maybe sexual pleasure is just chaotic and misguided. Like you said, fornication (including inappropriate contentography) hardens men's hearts, and inappropriate contentography makes men withdrawn.
Perhaps sex is incomplete. Perhaps it's just a piece of a greater pleasure in heaven. Maybe it's that "greater pleasure" with the outer pieces missing.
What is no longer needed for biological purposes may be expected to survive for splendor (C.S. Lewis, Miracles).
Not, it would occur to me that sex is like a teddy bear. Once I'm an adult (or in heaven), I don't need the teddy bear (or sex) that I had as a child (Or I had while on Earth). But what if the adult never had a teddy bear or anything like that as a child.
 
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VCR-2000

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What if I said that going to inappropriate contentography was acting as a symptom of and not necessarily just a cause? That he has lived and experienced women that either all rejected him, took his money, or caused him any bad experience in the past, but the women in the inappropriate contentography can't directly harm him as they are actors on a screen?

I am aware that inappropriate contentography does have bad long-term health consequences, but it's still understandable that people use it as an escapism when real life fails to fulfill.
 
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aiki

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As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

We are given a sensual physical system (taste, touch, sight, smell, sound) by God. We need this physical sense-system to navigate the material environment in which we find ourselves. So, no, our natural and necessary sensuality is not inherently evil or sinful. Our natural physical impulses are not inherently evil, either. The impulse to eat, or sleep, or for sex are all God-given, too. Unfortunately, we are all cursed with a propensity toward selfishness and thus to sin. Our natural, incorrigible and excessive selfishness needs a divine "limiter," a supernatural boundary-setter, controlling our impulses and the way in which we satisfy them.

Jesus also even said in Matthew 22:30 (there was also another iteration elsewhere in the bible) that "they will neither marry, nor be given in marriage..." so it seems that Jesus said we won't be married or have a similar kind of intimacy with the opposite sex of any kind at all in Heaven. That is one thing that made me feel even repulsed and one part that "helped" my faith slowly wither until the point today.

You've mistaken what heavenly interactions will be like. Paul wrote that "we know in part" while we live here on earth, but when we get to heaven "that which is in part will be done away with" and we "shall know even as also we are known." See 1 Corinthians 13. In other words, the sort of knowledge we will have of one another in heaven will be so much greater than what we can possibly have here that even the marriage relationship will seem weak and pale in comparison. We will know each other fully in heaven, in a way impossible this side of eternity.

I don't feel like I can completely accept Jesus or God anymore. I used to be more spiritual or at least tried to be when I was younger, I thought that I was going to be able to have a partner, but the narrative about not being with someone who I can look at with physical passion, be naked with, and have an exclusive intimacy that I could've missed seeing on earth (seems that there is a two-tiered system in place) have made me disillusioned. I also became more disillusioned because I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.

So, basically, you're turning from God because you want to have sex? Really? God made sex; it's His idea. And He knows the very best way for you to enjoy sex and for it to serve all the purposes for which He made it.

From what you've written, it seems that you don't really understand what it is to walk with God, to be a born-again disciple of Jesus. Do you understand the Gospel?

What about when God said we will see whatever we would desire? Is desiring a partner of the opposite sex to be with somehow unclean to God or has become unclean in his eyes? At least a lot of Christians seem to have a subconscious belief thinking so.

None of the Christians I know - and I know a great many of them - think of sex in the way you describe here. The most spiritually-mature Christians I know quite enjoy sex, but in the God-ordained and thus healthiest way. They recognize God gave sex as a blessing and as a part of maintaining intimacy between husband and wife, as well as generating the vital next generation of human beings. Sex is good!
 
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VCR-2000

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We are given a sensual physical system (taste, touch, sight, smell, sound) by God. We need this physical sense-system to navigate the material environment in which we find ourselves. So, no, our natural and necessary sensuality is not inherently evil or sinful. Our natural physical impulses are not inherently evil, either. The impulse to eat, or sleep, or for sex are all God-given, too. Unfortunately, we are all cursed with a propensity toward selfishness and thus to sin. Our natural, incorrigible and excessive selfishness needs a divine "limiter," a supernatural boundary-setter, controlling our impulses and the way in which we satisfy them.



You've mistaken what heavenly interactions will be like. Paul wrote that "we know in part" while we live here on earth, but when we get to heaven "that which is in part will be done away with" and we "shall know even as also we are known." See 1 Corinthians 13. In other words, the sort of knowledge we will have of one another in heaven will be so much greater than what we can possibly have here that even the marriage relationship will seem weak and pale in comparison. We will know each other fully in heaven, in a way impossible this side of eternity.



So, basically, you're turning from God because you want to have sex? Really? God made sex; it's His idea. And He knows the very best way for you to enjoy sex and for it to serve all the purposes for which He made it.

From what you've written, it seems that you don't really understand what it is to walk with God, to be a born-again disciple of Jesus. Do you understand the Gospel?



None of the Christians I know - and I know a great many of them - think of sex in the way you describe here. The most spiritually-mature Christians I know quite enjoy sex, but in the God-ordained and thus healthiest way. They recognize God gave sex as a blessing and as a part of maintaining intimacy between husband and wife, as well as generating the vital next generation of human beings. Sex is good!

What Paul said is fine, but it still doesn't make a difference. I'll still want to experience doing something as I could have done it on earth. Now because of COVID restrictions and other modern circumstances and that it supposedly will continue forever until Jesus returns and all his people are taken away from this life anyway, it's like as if between either side of life in this earth and rest of eternity, I'll never get a chance to have a woman, relationship, sexuality.
 
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Why would you talk about the navy when talking about fornication, and sexual pleasure without marriage?
Why can't things be different in heaven?
Maybe sexual pleasure is just chaotic and misguided. Like you said, fornication (including inappropriate contentography) hardens men's hearts, and inappropriate contentography makes men withdrawn.
Perhaps sex is incomplete. Perhaps it's just a piece of a greater pleasure in heaven. Maybe it's that "greater pleasure" with the outer pieces missing.
What is no longer needed for biological purposes may be expected to survive for splendor (C.S. Lewis, Miracles).
Not, it would occur to me that sex is like a teddy bear. Once I'm an adult (or in heaven), I don't need the teddy bear (or sex) that I had as a child (Or I had while on Earth). But what if the adult never had a teddy bear or anything like that as a child.
If you've never had anything, you won't miss it. I really do not understand the problem. Man is primarily a spiritual being. This current existence is at best the palest of shadows of what is to come. Who would long for a slum dwelling if they could live in Buckingham Palace? Not me, I can assure you. Especially if someone else did the cleaning. You know how much I remember about childhood toys? Very little? You know which toy I wish I had now? Not one. Zero. I'm grown up and childish things no longer interest me. Heaven is something like that. The things of this life are childish compared to the glory to come.
 
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If you've never had anything, you won't miss it. I really do not understand the problem. Man is primarily a spiritual being. This current existence is at best the palest of shadows of what is to come. Who would long for a slum dwelling if they could live in Buckingham Palace? Not me, I can assure you. Especially if someone else did the cleaning. You know how much I remember about childhood toys? Very little? You know which toy I wish I had now? Not one. Zero. I'm grown up and childish things no longer interest me. Heaven is something like that. The things of this life are childish compared to the glory to come.
It doesn't help.
 
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It doesn't help.
You could wish that there were unicorns. They don't exist. So wishing isn't going to help. Nothing is going to help you until you accept God's way of doing things.
 
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Jonathan Dahlin

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If you've never had anything, you won't miss it. I really do not understand the problem. Man is primarily a spiritual being. This current existence is at best the palest of shadows of what is to come. Who would long for a slum dwelling if they could live in Buckingham Palace? Not me, I can assure you. Especially if someone else did the cleaning. You know how much I remember about childhood toys? Very little? You know which toy I wish I had now? Not one. Zero. I'm grown up and childish things no longer interest me. Heaven is something like that. The things of this life are childish compared to the glory to come.
Why did God ever come up with marriage?
And who cares about sex and not holding hands, hugging, and kissing?
In heaven, why is there neither male nor female? Why would God do it that way? It seems very strange that women would become men in the afterlife.
Why can't a guy just lay his belly on her's with her belly up and give her a big, heavy, long kiss on the lips? And at another time two girls smothering one guy with kisses on the cheeks?
Now, masturbation doesn't cause unwanted pregnancies. inappropriate contentography doesn't either. But they do something else bad, like making men withdrawn. Perhaps if God allowed sexual "outercourse" or whatchamacallit outside of marriage, it would disincentivize people from getting married.
But in heaven there's no marriage for people to be disincentivized from.
What about Windows 2000? I... think that's a good "compensation" topic for another thread.
 
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Why did God ever come up with marriage?
And who cares about sex and not holding hands, hugging, and kissing?
In heaven, why is there neither male nor female? Why would God do it that way? It seems very strange that women would become men in the afterlife.
Why can't a guy just lay his belly on her's with her belly up and give her a big, heavy, long kiss on the lips? And at another time two girls smothering one guy with kisses on the cheeks?
Now, masturbation doesn't cause unwanted pregnancies. inappropriate contentography doesn't either. But they do something else bad, like making men withdrawn. Perhaps if God allowed sexual "outercourse" or whatchamacallit outside of marriage, it would disincentivize people from getting married.
But in heaven there's no marriage for people to be disincentivized from.
What about Windows 2000? I... think that's a good "compensation" topic for another thread.
I'm not God. I suggest that you ask Him.
 
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