New Covenant - fulfilled?

jgr · Nov 18, 2020

Douggg said:
That is an inverse comparison, because the 40 years of wandering in the desert end with the children of Israel entering the promise land, ending the 40 years on a good note. Destruction of the temple and later the city plowed over in 135 AD is a bad note, with the Jews led into the nations out of the promised land.

Reasonable estimates place the number who did not enter the promised land at 2 million, which is at least half of the original number in the exodus.

That's a rather bad good note.

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Guess I'll live in that question then.

What question are you referring to?

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I didn't realize I was even being vague. Yes....I am of the belief that would be categorized as "partial preterist" but that applies to ALL Christians (because we all believe that Jesus fulfilled at least some of the Messianic prophecies). I'm getting surprised at just how few prophecies people believe have been fulfilled....but believing the general Christmas story qualifies as partial preterism.

I'm not sure what you mean about "blind spots" and "I cannot apply it"? Do you mean you're resistant to apply preterist views to your beliefs?

It's just that applying preterism to scriptures that have an application where the preterist conclusion does not - my brain ignores it immediately. I just assume If it's in the bible, it's there is be applied in some way.

I tend to look at all the texts through multiple parallel concepts, it's just that the preterist view I cannot conceptualize it as a parallel yet. It's not taught on in a specific fashion.

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
What question are you referring to?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I did read the posts. So the question mark formed from this will be a space to live in - instead of a belligerent exclamation point. No need for a conclusion, it can remain a question - doesn't need to make sense.

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
It's just that applying preterism to scriptures that have an application where the preterist conclusion does not - my brain ignores it immediately. I just assume If it's in the bible, it's there is be applied in some way.

I'm not sure that one "applies preterism" to Scripture. It's more of a conclusion that comes after reading Scripture in context with an understanding of the historical backdrop. I totally agree with you that "if it's in the Bible, it's there to be applied in some way". That doesn't mean Scripture has to be referring to future events in order for us to apply the message. Does it not encourage your faith to know that Jesus arrived through His birth exactly when He was promised to? Doesn't it amaze you to read Isaiah and see how Jesus fulfilled what was written long before He was born?

Michael Collum said:
I tend to look at all the texts through multiple parallel concepts, it's just that the preterist view I cannot conceptualize it as a parallel yet. It's not taught on in a specific fashion.

There may be a misperception about what preterism is....or maybe I'm just not understanding this post.

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I did read the posts. So the question mark formed from this will be a space to live in - instead of a belligerent exclamation point. No need for a conclusion, it can remain a question - doesn't need to make sense.

I was only responding to this post that said:

"Guess I'll live in that question then."

.....so I asked, "what question?" That all I was "getting at".

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I'm not sure that one "applies preterism" to Scripture. It's more of a conclusion that comes after reading Scripture in context with an understanding of the historical backdrop. I totally agree with you that "if it's in the Bible, it's there to be applied in some way". That doesn't mean Scripture has to be referring to future events in order for us to apply the message. Does it not encourage your faith to know that Jesus arrived through His birth exactly when He was promised to? Doesn't it amaze you to read Isaiah and see how Jesus fulfilled what was written long before He was born?

There may be a misperception about what preterism is....or maybe I'm just not understanding this post.

All I get is I don't understand the premise so I don't see your posts as directly answering my questions.

For example, I apply revelation in a futurist way by looking for signs that resemble what is said.

I also apply Revelation 2 & 3 as instructional texts.

I also look at the picture of the city of God not allowing sin in, as my body as an application.

I understand there is fulfillment of prophecies in the Old Testament of who Jesus is before He came.

I also read Daniel and Revelation as two separate prophecies.

Daniel was fulfilled during the time of Jesus when Jesus the Stone ground the clay toes of those who said "our only king is caesar" to powder.

However, Revelation is of a time to come after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I was only responding to this post that said:

"Guess I'll live in that question then."

.....so I asked, "what question?" That all I was "getting at".

The question I am Living in, is "how are any of those posts responding to my posts?"

The only general answer I am getting is you are operating from a different premise of understanding, so the finer point question is, "what exactly is that premise?"

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

jgr said:
Reasonable estimates place the number who did not enter the promised land at 2 million, which is at least half of the original number in the exodus.

That's a rather bad good note.

Excellent point, jgr. Here's one passage that describes part of that bad good note:

Numbers 14:29
Your bodies will fall in this wilderness—all who were numbered in the census, everyone twenty years of age or older—because you have grumbled against Me

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
The question I am Living in, is "how are any of those posts responding to my posts?"

Interesting. I'm living in that same question.

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Interesting. I'm living in that same question.

Sometimes I do not know is the only truth our minds can know.

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
The only general answer I am getting is you are operating from a different premise of understanding, so the finer point question is, "what exactly is that premise?"

If we can't get past the "what question are you referring to?" I doubt we'd get anywhere further.

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Daniel was fulfilled during the time of Jesus when Jesus the Stone ground the clay toes of those who said "our only king is caesar" to powder.

Agreed

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

For Example:

How is this post:

mkgal1 said:
"Heaven and earth" are depicted throughout the old testament as God’s covenants with humanity (Heaven = God’s domain dwelling with humanity - earth). The tent and Temple were considered God's dwelling place. When the Old Covenant became obsolete and eventually disappeared....the old was gone. God now dwells in the hearts of His people.....living stones. The New Heaven/New Earth is the New Covenant (although not everyone agrees....obviously).

From N.T. Wright:
"What the New Testament Really Says About Heaven | Time" The New Testament Doesn’t Say What Most People Think It Does About Heaven
"Israel’s scriptures had long promised that God would come back in person to dwell with his people for ever. The early Christians picked this up: “The Word became flesh,” declares John [1:14], “and dwelt in our midst.” The word for “dwelt” means, literally, “tabernacled,” “pitched his tent” — alluding to the wilderness “tabernacle” in the time of Moses and the Temple built by Solomon"

A response to this post:

Michael Collum said:
There as that point in time.

(also at that point the OHOE would have been melted with fire.)

The judgment happens, then the New Heaven and the New Earth are revealed - after the judgment, the old is gone || with the coming of the NHNE the new has come - it is fulfilled.

The response doesn't seem related.

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

It may be possible that we agree that Daniel is fulfilled, but not that Revelation speaks of another sequence of events.

mkgal1 · Nov 18, 2020

Michael Collum said:
It may be possible that we agree that Daniel is fulfilled, but not that Revelation speaks of another sequence of events.

Let's not complicate things more by adding in Revelation. The thread is about the New Covenant fulfillment. That seems difficult enough to discuss.

Gregory Thompson · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Let's not complicate things more by adding in Revelation. The thread is about the New Covenant fulfillment. That seems difficult enough to discuss.

That's where we started.

Okay, so the old testament began with Moses and God on the Mountain.

The fulfillment of the old testament was the incarnation, Jesus Christ.

The new testament began at the death of the testator, Jesus Christ.

The fulfillment of the new testament will be - (following same pattern)

When we have our new bodies, and we are in the sinless New Heaven and New Earth and when we live with God forever and even ever.

Timtofly · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Who is advising pastors to not prepare before they preach? Why is this even being brought up?

Because you make it sound like that is what Jeremiah prophesied. It is already written in the hearts and on the minds. No preparation required. Did the church unlearn what is on the heart and in the mind? Much learning doth make one mad. Acts 26:24.

Timtofly · Nov 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I hope you mean "not everyone sitting in the pews".....because there's a difference between sitting IN a church and being one OF the Church.

We are supposed to be making disciples, not teaching theology. Sitting in church should be a becoming a disciple event. How can human theology out side of the written Word, make anything other than just messengers of human theology that feels good, but not of God?

jgr · Nov 18, 2020

Timtofly said:
Because you make it sound like that is what Jeremiah prophesied. It is already written in the hearts and on the minds. No preparation required. Did the church unlearn what is on the heart and in the mind? Much learning doth make one mad. Acts 26:24.

Do you agree with Festus that Paul was mad?

Hosea 4
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

New Covenant - fulfilled?

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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