Calvinism and Abortion

Bible Highlighter said:

Again, this is a dodge of you not explaining anything (Which fits the cliche of Calvinism in that they are mysterious with their answers many times). I can actually find out what Calvinists believe by Googling it, but I want to know what you believe because there are different shades of Calvinism out there.

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How did Peter know the true Jesus? God revealed it to him.

BNR32FAN said:

We were made sinners is what it says. Which means we were made to commit sin. It doesn’t mean that we are guilty of something we didn’t do or had no control over. Each man is judged according to his deeds. How many times do the scriptures say this? Nowhere do the scriptures ever say that a person is judged according to someone else’s deeds.

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I am by no means for Calvinism, but I believe Original Sin is biblical, and that the consequences of the sin of the parents can affect their children.

“Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,” (Deuteronomy 5:9).

For it's why a son can become a drunk just like his father can be. The sin is literally passed down through the DNA. It's why certain countries cannot break the bondage of idolatry because their forefathers had always were into idolatry. Like father, like son. But Jesus can break the chains of any curse, and this includes the curse of Adam. For in Adam, all die, but in Christ all shall be made alive.

Dave L said:

We still battle sin every waking moment and sometimes in our dreams. But after the New Birth, we can change the channel in our thoughts and focus on good thoughts.

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Can a believer abide in unconfessed sin and still be saved?
Can a believer live a life that is sinful with no real change in their life, and still be saved?

Bible Highlighter said:

Can a believer abide in unconfessed sin and still be saved?

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It's not possible.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

Dave L said:

How did Peter know the true Jesus? God revealed it to him.

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If I was really die hard to figure out what you believe, I could just Google on what you believe and pay close attention to everything you posted, and figure it out over a period of time what you believe. So hiding the truth does not really benefit you or anyone else. What is the purpose of even speaking if we are not revealing the truth of what God's Word says?

Bible Highlighter said:

Again, but I can just Google on what you believe and figure it out. So hiding the truth does not really benefit you or anyone else. What is the purpose of even speaking if we are not revealing the truth of what God's Word says?

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There's a standard set of doctrine most Calvinists rally around but it goes much deeper than what you see on the surface.

Dave L said:

It's not possible.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

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Glad to hear it. There are many Calvinists believe they can sin and still be saved, though. You should be aware of that fact.

Bible Highlighter said:

I am not claiming it to be a 100% fact, but is more like an indirect logical deduction based on certain verses or truths in His Holy Word. First, we know God is good, and Jesus said children are of the kingdom. Second, what are the odds of 144,000 Messianic Jews existing who are found without fault before the throne of God?

Also, Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8 says that those who worship the beast in the future never had their names in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world. This means that GOD is aware of who these souls are, and they will not exist until their time to fulfill such an event. Granted, I believe they had free will to do good, but God knew that they would not make the right choice, and so based on God's foreknowledge of that bad in what they would do, they never had a shot or chance at salvation (Based on the evil they will do). This does not mean that everyone else does not have a chance or shot at salvation, though. I believe Jesus died for the sins of the rest of the world so as to offer them the free gift of salvation (if they receive such a gift, and they are responsible with it). 2 Thessalonians 2:10 makes it clear that are those who perish because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.

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I appreciate your effort to explain your view. I also do not expect you to prooftext your way to a doctrinal position, but would like to see some explicit scriptural exegesis. Allow me to zoom in on something you said:


You seem to be saying that God's foreknowledge of future choices is the basis for salvation. I wonder how you interpret Paul in Romans 8:


In this passage, Paul does not condition God's foreknowing or predestining acts on anything in man or anything that man has done. Paul does not say "those whom he foreknew would make the right choice he predestined". He says "those whom he foreknew he predestined". It is solely an act of God.

Dave L said:

How did Peter know the true Jesus? God revealed it to him.

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In the example you have given, this was the formation of the New Testament Scriptures and the upcoming New Covenant. Jesus was preparing them for something new and different. So He had to give them the truth in bite sized pieces because they needed to change their way of thinking from out of the Old Covenant. So this is not really applicable for you to throw down the mystery card for believers who know they are already know that we are under the New Covenant and not the Old.

Bible Highlighter said:

Glad to hear it. There are many Calvinists believe they can sin and still be saved, though. You should be aware of that fact.

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I used to attack "Calvinist" who held those views but they didn't have a firm understanding. They were mostly eternally secure Arminians which doesn't add up.

Bible Highlighter said:

In the example you have given, this was the formation of the New Testament Scriptures and the upcoming New Covenant. Jesus was preparing them for something new and different. So He had to give them the truth in bite sized pieces because they needed to change their way of thinking from out of the Old Covenant. So this is not really applicable for you to throw down the mystery card for believers who know they are already know that we are under the New Covenant and not the Old.

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“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

Dave L said:

The bible tells me so.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)


“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

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Says nothing about an idol if you're not born again. Hence, according to your theology.

Isilwen said:

Says nothing about an idol if you're not born again. Hence, according to your theology.

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If Christ chooses you he gives you the means of discerning spiritual truth. If you choose him, you only have your ideas about who you think he is.

Dave L said:

If Christ chooses you he gives you the means of discerning spiritual truth. If you choose him, you only have your ideas about who you think he is.

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Again, according to your theology. All of humankind can choose to follow Jesus. He gives us that choice. He doesn't choose who will be saved and who doesn't.

If thats the case, what real motivation is there to follow Him? The off chance that you were chosen by Jesus to be saved and follow Him?

Yeah, no thanks!

Isilwen said:

Again, according to your theology. All of humankind can choose to follow Jesus. He gives us that choice. He doesn't choose who will be saved and who doesn't.

If thats the case, what real motivation is there to follow Him? The off chance that you were chosen by Jesus to be saved and follow Him?

Yeah, no thanks!

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All are spiritually blind and can only worship idols they assign Jesus' name to.

Only those whom God gives a new heart to can see the true Christ.

Dave L said:

Why, if not considered guilty of his sin?

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Because sin is hereditary for all man.

Maria Billingsley said:

Forgive me, I was not going to make another comment but I could not let this go. We are under the "new covenant", not the "old covenant". Jesus Christ of Nazareth has made payment for the sins of the world. The innocent will not suffer the second death. Be blessed.

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This still doesn’t negate my previous post. The same God in the OT is the same God in the NT.

Yesha said:

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Rom. 8:28-30 (ESV)​

In this passage, Paul does not condition God's foreknowing or predestining acts on anything in man or anything that man has done. Paul does not say "those whom he foreknew would make the right choice he predestined". He says "those whom he foreknew he predestined". It is solely an act of God.

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I imagine a person can justify axe murdering by isolating certain verses at the expense of other verses that condemn murder. But that would not be reading the Bible in harmony. Romans 8:28-30 is not an exhaustive truth claim that ALL who are predestined will be glorified in the end. The passage makes no such claim. In fact, I highlighted the word “might” in the passage you quoted to me to show you that such a thing is not a 100% proof claim that those who are predestined will always be glorified.

In addition: You have to take into account Matthew 13:41-42.

In this passage it says that the Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. the word “offend” here is in reference to those who “offend” or make children to sin as mentioned by Jesus elsewhere) and those who work iniquity or lawlessness (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

In other words, a believer can be in the Kingdom and even be saved at one point in time, but they can later be cast out of Christ's kingdom on account of their justifying sin or a belief that makes room for a person to justify sin on some level. How scary that day of judgment will be for those who did not heed the words of Christ. For Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says that if any soul who does not hear that prophet (i.e. Jesus), they shall be destroyed. This even includes me, as well. For I am not above God's Word anymore than you are.

Yesha said:

I appreciate your effort to explain your view. I also do not expect you to prooftext your way to a doctrinal position, but would like to see some explicit scriptural exegesis. Allow me to zoom in on something you said:

"Granted, I believe they had free will to do good, but God knew that they would not make the right choice, and so based on God's foreknowledge of that bad in what they would do, they never had a shot or chance at salvation (Based on the evil they will do)."​

You seem to be saying that God's foreknowledge of future choices is the basis for salvation. I wonder how you interpret Paul in Romans 8:

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Rom. 8:28-30 (ESV)​

In this passage, Paul does not condition God's foreknowing or predestining acts on anything in man or anything that man has done. Paul does not say "those whom he foreknew would make the right choice he predestined". He says "those whom he foreknew he predestined". It is solely an act of God.

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“Whom He foreknew”, not “what He foreknew ppl would do”. Foreknew in the Greek is a verb, meaning God did something when He foreknew them, i.e. elected them.

Great post my Brother.

Bible Highlighter said:

I am by no means for Calvinism, but I believe Original Sin is biblical, and that the consequences of the sin of the parents can affect their children.

“Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,” (Deuteronomy 5:9).

For it's why a son can become a drunk just like his father can be. The sin is literally passed down through the DNA. It's why certain countries cannot break the bondage of idolatry because their forefathers had always were into idolatry. Like father, like son. But Jesus can break the chains of any curse, and this includes the curse of Adam. For in Adam, all die, but in Christ all shall be made alive.

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I believe in the a Orthodox understanding of Ancestral Sin. That we have received Adam’s sinful nature but not the guilt of his sin. Each man will be judged according to his deeds.