Calvinism and Abortion

Dave L said:

They are sin personified. Adam proved we are a corrupt species.

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I don’t deny this.

zoidar said:

I agree God knows exactly. But He can't judge babies from what would have happened in the future if they grew up. Maybe you didn't mean that, misunderstanding on my part then, sorry. Heard that argument.

To clarify. I thought you meant that babies were elect because of God's foreknowledge.

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Um, I am not referring exclusively to ALL babies being elect or predestined. The Scriptures really do not talk about that. So that issue is not clear in the Bible. I hold to two possible views in regards to the word “elect” and or “predestined.” One possible view is that God elects or predestines ALL people to salvation (Except those in Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8) in that their names are in the Lamb's book of life before they were even born, but it is up to them to answer the call by receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, and in being faithful towards Him. The second view is that election or predestination is in reference to only those in whom the Lord knows who will accept the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Whether or not they continue in the Lord's good ways is another issue altogether.

Bible Highlighter said:

Right, God commands all men everywhere to repent, but we know not all men will repent. Thus, the will of God is being thwarted by man's wrong choice. It is never in God's will that any man should sin.

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Hence, we have a choice to follow him or not.

Bible Highlighter said:

I believe that if babies have a sin nature, then they have sin on them in some way. This would be the stain from Adam's sin.

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The stain is the nature not the guilt. What sin can an unborn fetus possibly commit against God?

Isilwen said:

Hence, we have a choice to follow him or not.

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What I mean is that if God forced all men would follow Him, but we know that isn't true. Therefore, He really does give us a choice.

Dave L said:

You can only choose an idol and call it Christ unless first born again.

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Again, according to your theology.

Dave L said:

“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Romans 5:19 (KJV 1900)

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Many were made sinners that’s the key phrase here. Again nothing to support that we are guilty of Adam’s sin. We have inherited his sinful nature.

convicted1 said:

No, I understand the character of God just fine. I just posted a passage where God commanded children and infants be killed and you brushed it to the side.

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Forgive me, I was not going to make another comment but I could not let this go. We are under the "new covenant", not the "old covenant". Jesus Christ of Nazareth has made payment for the sins of the world. The innocent will not suffer the second death. Be blessed.

BNR32FAN said:

Many were made sinners that’s the key phrase here. Again nothing to support that we are guilty of Adam’s sin. We have inherited his sinful nature.

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Why, if not considered guilty of his sin?

Isilwen said:

What I mean is that if God forced all men would follow Him, but we know that isn't true. Therefore, He really does give us a choice.

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He enables us to make the choice but we still have to make the decision.

Isilwen said:

Again, according to your theology.

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The bible tells me so.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)


“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

Dave L said:

It explains a lot. Study God's 4 sore Judgements and take a look around.

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No it doesn't explain anything. You want me to believe God forces some people to be sinners, and then He judges them for sinning (Which is something beyond their own control). That would be like kicking a dog across the room because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem. That is not nice and neither is it good.

Dave L said:

Why, if not considered guilty of his sin?

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We were made sinners is what it says. Which means we were made to commit sin. It doesn’t mean that we are guilty of something we didn’t do or had no control over. Each man is judged according to his deeds. How many times do the scriptures say this? Nowhere do the scriptures ever say that a person is judged according to someone else’s deeds.

Bible Highlighter said:

No it doesn't explain anything. You want me to believe God forces some people to be sinners, and then He judges them for sinning (Which is something beyond their own control). That would be like kicking a dog across the room because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem. That is not nice and neither its it good.

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You cannot believe scripture in truth unless God reveals it.

BNR32FAN said:

We were made sinners is what it says. Which means we were made to commit sin. It doesn’t mean that we are guilty of something we didn’t do or had no control over. Each man is judged according to his deeds. How many times do the scriptures say this? Nowhere do the scriptures ever say that a person is judged according to someone else’s deeds.

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We are a corrupt species that can only sin.

Isilwen said:

Hence, we have a choice to follow him or not.

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I 100% agree.

Dave L said:

We are a corrupt species that can only sin.

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You include “we” in that conversation? I thought that you believe that the elect do not do acts of unrighteousness.

The wheels go round and round in this thread. Thanks anyway guys! Lot's of interesting things been said.

Dave L said:

You cannot believe scripture in truth unless God reveals it.

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Again, this is a dodge of you not explaining anything (Which fits the cliche of Calvinism in that they are mysterious with their answers many times). I can actually find out what Calvinists believe by Googling it, but I want to know what you believe because there are different shades of Calvinism out there.

Bible Highlighter said:

You include “we” in that conversation? I thought that you believe that the elect do not do acts of unrighteousness.

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We still battle sin every waking moment and sometimes in our dreams. But after the New Birth, we can change the channel in our thoughts and focus on good thoughts.