Calvinism and Abortion

Bible Highlighter said:

While I am strongly against Calvinism, I believe our Lord is sovereign. I believe God chooses those souls in whom He knew would be faithful to Him to be aborted babies. For God knows the end from the beginning.

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I don't believe God can judge us on foreknowledge. It would raise the question why we are here on Earth to begin with.

convicted1 said:

In that passage, the fathers are not representing their sons. Adam represented his posterity and when he sinned, that was imputed unto them. You’re conflating these two accounts.

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What unborn infant has represented Adam? And where is this verse that says that the guilt of Adam’s sin was imputed to all man?

BNR32FAN said:

What unborn infant has represented Adam? And where is this verse that says that the guilt of Adam’s sin was imputed to all man?

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Romans 5:12ff and 1 Corinthians 15:22.

BNR32FAN said:

What unborn infant has represented Adam? And where is this verse that says that the guilt of Adam’s sin was imputed to all man?

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No one has represented Adam. He was the federal head(representative) of all mankind(his posterity). He represented us. When he sinned, we sinned, being in him. It was as if we were there eating of that tree ourselves.

Well thank goodness that God sent his son Jesus Christ to pay for all sin, which means before any of us ever being born were already forgiven our sin, we just did not have faith, or understanding?

Yesha said:

Would you be able to show me from the Word how you have come to this conclusion?

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I am not claiming it to be a 100% fact, but is more like an indirect logical deduction based on certain verses or truths in His Holy Word. First, we know God is good, and Jesus said children are of the kingdom. Second, what are the odds of 144,000 Messianic Jews existing who are found without fault before the throne of God?

Also, Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8 says that those who worship the beast in the future never had their names in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world. This means that GOD is aware of who these souls are, and they will not exist until their time to fulfill such an event. Granted, I believe they had free will to do good, but God knew that they would not make the right choice, and so based on God's foreknowledge of that bad in what they would do, they never had a shot or chance at salvation (Based on the evil they will do). This does not mean that everyone else does not have a chance or shot at salvation, though. I believe Jesus died for the sins of the rest of the world so as to offer them the free gift of salvation (if they receive such a gift, and they are responsible with it). 2 Thessalonians 2:10 makes it clear that are those who perish because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.

Agallagher said:

Well thank goodness that God sent his son Jesus Christ to pay for all sin, which means before any of us ever being born were already forgiven our sin, we just did not have faith, or understanding?

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If everybody w/o exception’s sin is paid for, then everybody w/o exception is saved.

We all have been saved from our sin, just not everyone is saved to the kingdom of heaven due to their lack of faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Because of either one not know the truth or two complete renouncing.

God rather someone be hot for him(believe), or cold (reject) than to ever be in the middle.

I believe my sin was paid for before I ever met Jesus, though it took four years to understand this. I’m not saying to go run and sin, but we all still sin, we gonna die with it. We all responsible for our own actions as adult human beings I would say.

@convicted1 aint no one perfect here, even though we speak as men on the internet.

Agallagher said:

Using the bible can we see who the elect are for example say the 12 tribes of Israel?

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Hello Agallagher,
It is a bit more nuanced than that.
Not all Israel was of Israel.Romans9:6-11,isa1:9.2pet1:3-11explains how we can make our calling and election sure.

convicted1 said:

If everybody w/o exception’s sin is paid for, then everybody w/o exception is saved.

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It's not a good conclusion. If I buy a ticket to Canada for all my friends, will all my friends necessarily go to Canada? The same argument.

Bible Highlighter said:

“But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Luke 18:16).

While I believe that if Jesus did not go to the cross and was not risen, we would all perish. But I believe because God loves us so much, such a possibility would have never happened. For God so loved the world. I imagine if we truly knew the depths of God it would bring us all to crumble before Him. So the love of God compelled the Son to die for us and to raise three days later to save mankind. Yes, I believe babies have the stain of sin upon their bodies from Adam, but Jesus reversed the curse of the sin of Adam because of His resurrection. Seeing this is the case, to say that babies who do not have the capacity to know of any good or evil are to be punished is monstrous at best. But then again, we are living in the last days.

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Those little children believed on Him.mt 18:6.
Babies sinned in Adam rom3:23.
Elect infants dying in infancy will be saved.

If ppl are saved from their sins, then they are saved, period.

zoidar said:

It's not a good conclusion. If I buy a ticket to Canada for all my friends, will all my friends necessarily go to Canada?

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So, you’re comparing the cross to buying Canadian tickets? Srsly? Not a good comparison at all.

zoidar said:

I don't believe God can judge us on foreknowledge. It would raise the question why we are here on Earth to begin with.

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Surely your not suggesting Open Theism (i.e. that God does not know everything and He learns as things happen).

Maria Billingsley said:

The unborn have not sinned.

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Hello Maria,
They have not sinned by personal sin, but they sinned in Adam. Rom3:23
That verse teaches we all sinned at one time in the past, that was the fall of Adam...rom5:12-21

zoidar said:

It's not a good conclusion. If I buy a ticket to Canada for all my friends, will all my friends necessarily go to Canada? The same argument.

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Jesus stood in the place of those He died for. He fully paid their sin debt. You can’t compare buying tickets to Christ paying for His sheep’s sin.

convicted1 said:

If ppl are saved from their sins, then they are saved, period.

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Surely all past sin is forever forgiven, but if new sin is accrued to one's account, they need to confess and forsake such sins in order to maintain mercy, forgiveness, and or salvation.

Proverbs 28:13 basically says that he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Mercy is salvation. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7 essentially says if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.

Bible Highlighter said:

Surely all past sin is forever forgiven, but if new sin is accrued to one's account, they need to confess and forsake such sins in order to maintain mercy, forgiveness, and or salvation.

Proverbs 28:13 basically says that he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Mercy is salvation. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7 essentially says if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.

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Well, actually, all our sins have been forgiven, past, present, and future. But that doesn’t negate the necessity of repentance in the believer’s life. 1 John 1 is a very sobering chapter.

Jesus died for all mankind , thankfully. I’m out love people as Calvinistic whatever you desire to believe go for it. I don’t subscribe to those beliefs due to lack of freedom a lot of the time and how dominant some can be on the internet.

the internet can make things seem like they are on the brim of destruction. We get one day at a time try to enjoy the most of it. Gnight

convicted1 said:

Romans 5:12ff and 1 Corinthians 15:22.

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I agree. These verses are showing that we all died in Adam. Original Sin is true. But I think some folks have a slight variation of understanding on what that means. But I believe all are condemned by what Adam did. The good news is that Jesus reverses the curse of the sin of Adam and the condemnation that he brought.